[Deny Ignorance?] Why?

I'd like to start off by saying that i'm not entirely sure that this is the right section for this thread.....i could not find a general section, and this kind of IS a current event, just not a world one...it's more site related...


Anyway...

Why is it that every time i turn around, i see another thread chock full of stupidity?....i can log in on any given day, and find such gems as "us warship fires on merchants in canal", or "socialism isn't communism", and "why do you hate america?"....in each of these kinds of threads, people provide logical, though out, factual arguments, yet the OP's ignorantly stick to their original position....it's aggravating, to say the least. Why is this kind of idiotic garbage allowed? Why aren't these threads closed, after the OP has been proven wrong?

My personal favorite at the moment is the "why do you hate america" thread, where a Bill O'Reilly-esque forum newcomer makes the assertion that asking questions, and being inquisitive is analogous to hating america....he also asserts that you can't hate the government without hating the entire country, because, apparently, while i was asleep, the government became the whole damned country....this is just madness.....

so why is this allowed?....i understand freedom of speech and expression are a concern, but when someone is so obviously wrong, and have been proven to be so, why are they allowed to continue on with it? is there another reason i've missed?

discuss.

[edit on 26-3-2008 by Daedalus]

Because it's the internet. I have some stupid threads out there and they're still open? why? because no one can prove me wrong. No one can tell me there's no God and prove it. However, it's ok once in a while to accept defeat like I have in the past and move on.

I have so much education..it's hard to act educated anymore. I got bored of it. So it's more fun to act stupid and silly.

in the end, you can debate someone for years and year and it will get you nowhere. how many years has ats been open? yet no one has proven UFOS /ALIENS real.

Because whether a person is wrong or right is a matter of opinion.
We as members are all entitled to post our opinions on every subject here on ATS.
Where exactly would you draw that line between what should be allowed and what shouldn't be?
The Mods have enough to deal with.and even they themselves may have a different opinion as to whether a thread should be closed or not.
There would be too much of a fuzzy gray area there, not just black and white.

reply to post by jedimiller


Some people seem determined to prove the negative to their signature corollary with every post.

I suggest why not take up a challenge to prove the value of one's education by trying to act 'erudite' for a change? It might be refreshing.

Uh, not that I'm referring to anyone on ATS - just making a general comment.





[edit on 26-3-2008 by Badge01]

Originally posted by Daedalus

Why is it that every time i turn around, i see another thread chock full of stupidity?....i can log in on any given day, and find such gems as "us warship fires on merchants in canal", or "socialism isn't communism", and "why do you hate america?"....in each of these kinds of threads, people provide logical, though out, factual arguments, yet the OP's ignorantly stick to their original position....it's aggravating, to say the least. ? Why is this kind of garbage allowed? Why aren't these threads closed, after the OP has been proven wrong?

What you consider stupidity is your opinion. For instance, I think your thread is stupid and insulting. Do I think it should be closed? No.

What you consider garbage, might be a treasure for other people. Once again, that is your opinion.

People don't have to change their minds. Could it be that you just want to see people admit when they are wrong?

If you don't like the way a thread is turning out, because it doesn't agree with you, don't read it or participate in it! But this is just my opinion!


[edit on 26-3-2008 by Enthralled Fan]

[edit on 26-3-2008 by Enthralled Fan]

Originally posted by jedimiller
in the end, you can debate someone for years and year and it will get you nowhere. how many years has ats been open? yet no one has proven UFOS /ALIENS real.

Good insight there. It's utterly futile trying to prove "ALIENS" to people who don't want to believe. No amount of evidence is ever good enough.

reply to post by Daedalus

I do not agree with what you are saying. But you are not aggravating me or upsetting me. I would suggest you not let certain threads upset you.


If a thread seems ignorant to you then don't post or read any more of the thread. Seems very simple to me.

To deny anyone to voice their opinion is to deny freedom.

Dizzie

Originally posted by Enthralled Fan
Originally posted by Daedalus

Why is it that every time i turn around, i see another thread chock full of stupidity?....i can log in on any given day, and find such gems as "us warship fires on merchants in canal", or "socialism isn't communism", and "why do you hate america?"....in each of these kinds of threads, people provide logical, though out, factual arguments, yet the OP's ignorantly stick to their original position....it's aggravating, to say the least. ? Why is this kind of garbage allowed? Why aren't these threads closed, after the OP has been proven wrong?

What you consider stupidity is your opinion. For instance, I think your thread is stupid and insulting. Do I think it should be closed? No.

What you consider garbage, might be a treasure for other people. Once again, that is your opinion.

People don't have to change their minds. Could it be that you just want to see people admit when they are wrong?

If you don't like the way a thread is turning out, because it doesn't agree with you, don't read it or participate in it! But this is just my opinion!


[edit on 26-3-2008 by Enthralled Fan]

[edit on 26-3-2008 by Enthralled Fan]

the problem with what you've said here is that it's not a matter of opinion....it's fact.

in the examples i listed, there is clear, undeniable stupidity at work. Another thing i've noticed a lot of is people starting threads, and using horrible english. If english isn't their primary language, then that's understandable, and even excusable, but for the people who's primary language IS english, they need to attain a more effective command of the language, otherwise, whether their points are valid or not, they're taken less seriously.

At any rate, can you honestly look at the examples i listed, and say that there isn't stupidity? In fact, i dare you to say there isn't..and back it up.

Originally posted by dizziedame
reply to post by Daedalus

 

I do not agree with what you are saying. But you are not aggravating me or upsetting me. I would suggest you not let certain threads upset you.


If a thread seems ignorant to you then don't post or read any more of the thread. Seems very simple to me.

To deny anyone to voice their opinion is to deny freedom.

Dizzie

The problem is though, i come here to read intelligent, well thought out posts about topics that interest me....don't get me wrong, there's still a lot of that here, but over the last few years, i've noticed more and more that the boards are being invaded by people who can't comprehend, can't reason, can't type....it's very annoying. I think it speaks to the very frightening reality of the collective dumbing down of america that we keep hearing about.

And before anyone points it out, i realize this isn't a purely american community, but i daresay there are more people from america here than from anywhere else(not entirely sure on this one, someone please correct me if i'm wrong).

all i'm saying is that reading a lot of the threads here anymore, makes me wanna do this :bnghd:

......but i still love it here....i'm just looking to see if anyone else has noticed what i have..

[edit on 27-3-2008 by Daedalus]

Originally posted by Daedalus

in the examples i listed, there is clear, undeniable stupidity at work. Another thing i've noticed a lot of is people starting threads, and using horrible english. If english isn't their primary language, then that's understandable, and even excusable, but for the people who's primary language IS english, they need to attain a more effective command of the language, otherwise, whether their points are valid or not, they're taken less seriously.

At any rate, can you honestly look at the examples i listed, and say that there isn't stupidity? In fact, i dare you to say there isn't..and back it up.

This is your thread, is it not? I will be more than happy to read each of the threads you listed as examples when you supply links for them. You might consider me lazy for not looking them up, but they are your examples, so the burden of putting them here as a reference is up to you.

As to your point about command of the English language, you have no right to be pointing out the errors of other people while passing over your own. Did you preview your own posts before hitting the post reply button?

Why would you be daring me to do anything in regards to your thread? The burden of proof to prove the examples you listed are stupid is up to you. Why should I waste my time hunting for something that you are using for a reference? That would be stupid on my part! It would be even better as an example to prove your point, if you were to link what it is in each thread that you find particularly stupid.

As far as I am concerned you are calling each and every member who participated in those threads stupid, unless you can point out to me exactly what you mean.

Did you really mean to call all of those people, stupid?

People who do comprehend complex issues are usually also able to cope with the fact that most people don't. I have written some rants about subjects relating to this, but that was just me being irritated, annoyed and generally speaking in a bad mood. It serves no purpose to think that most of the people are stupid, as they are not. They are just interested about the other things. Basically meaning: they do not share your hobbies and interests.

People who are good at complex matters fall in illusions, too. They are not immune to it; in fact, those people usually believe in the silliest of things, although they are very good at (understanding) other things correctly. I have met several extremely smart people, and pretty much every single one of them believes in something silly.

The problem lies in the fact that a capability to reason and use logic can be used with false premises. In such a situation it doesn't really matter when a deduced "fact" is silly, if logic and reasoning is 100% correct. False premises nearly always lead to false facts when premises are wrong.

So, you may perhaps want to change your perspective a bit and include what I have said in your view of people on ATS.

I'll just give a famous example to give others some idea about what I am talking about here.

Isaac Newton, the guy who invented a few physical laws. He spend about three years of his life creating his theories. That's about it. Then, he did something different.

Next fifty (yes, 50) years of his life was spent studying theological texts (bible and all the rest) and predicting end of the world. He even made some deduced predictions. This is a well known fact. Now, why does a genius spend fifty years to study such things? I know that it was a different time back then, and pretty mcuh everybody believed in some religion or other. I merely try to emphasize my point with this example.

rawsome, i'm not talking about people starting silly threads about silly things...so what if you wanna start a thread about how you taped bigfoot and el chupacabra sitting in your backyard eating marshmellow rabbits, but then you accidentally set the tape on fire....no big deal. I'm not gonna believe you (see: pics, or it didn't happen), but i'm not gonna call you stupid either....i'll just chock it up to you being crazy.

no, what i'm talking about is actual stupidity.....


www.abovetopsecret.com...

You'll need to read the whole thread to understand what i'm talking about, but mostly, it has to do with the idiot "southernbelle82". I'm sure you'll understand when you read


www.abovetopsecret.com...

Then we have this thread where the OP is just mind numbingly stupid, and his thread reflects this. He does a FLAWLESS imitation of famous TV personality, and confirmed idiot Bill O'Reilly. Now, in defense, even the mods couldn't stomach the stupidity of the thread, and closed it. i'm just saying i don't see it happen very often.


www.abovetopsecret.com...

Then this one where the OP posts a news article about a US warship firing on an egyptian merchant ship...later it's found that the ship was actually a civilian cargo ship, but the OP, and others go on insisting it was a warship.....


and just for the hell of it, lets toss in this one....

www.abovetopsecret.com...'

It pretty much explains itself in the first 5 pages, but it's gone on WAY longer than that....the OP put out clearly false information, then when confronted about it, belligerently insisted he was right, based on his ignorant misunderstanding of how the underlying technology works


this is the kind of stuff i'm talking about.....not silly beliefs....but outright stupidity, in multiple forms.

oh yeah....enthralled.....what mistakes did i overlook?

I didn't read everything as subjects were not appealing to me, but I did eye through most of that material. I understand now that I got your first post wrong, I'm sorry for that.

I have at times wondered about that kind of stupidity myself as well. Some people simply cannot grasp the meaning of context, nor do these kind of people learn to understand why most basic logic is necessary when forming a picture about our world we live in. It does lead into extremely weird and biased views about subjects.

I'm a supporter of free speech and opinion, but to be honest I do not like all the consequences it brings about. My attitude towards it is that there is a price to pay, and having to take just plain stupid people into account is one such price. So, for the most part, I just do not reply to posts that have no basis in reality whatsoever. Although I have to admit that to be interested about subjects on ATS pretty much means that I believe in some such things myself, too.

One particular example about near absolute stupidity (or maybe it is just a *need* to believe in) are reptilian threads. Those threads that talk about the so called fact that our civilization is or is to be controlled by some sort of green lizards from outer space. Some variations of that theory include that these lizards come from hollow earth instead.

I wonder if those people who do believe in it ever read any anthropology. By reading the basics they would gain some knowledge about subjects that have appealed to people for thousands of years. Continuously. Snake, lizard, any similar form, has always been present in nearly all religions. Somehow, that subject is hardwired into our brains. Its an another thing altogether to believe that it has some relevance with lizards from space (or from hollow earth).

A lot of things in this world are subjective (with the exception of my Math 107 class, my teacher does NOT care about my opinion on logarythms and writing it on my mid-term will NOT get me part marks).

The internet is full of controversy and "what is right" and "what is wrong". What it all comes down to is you personally. What do YOU believe, why do you believe it?

Its all about interpretation. You will never see the wolrd from my eyes, and I will never see the world through yours.

We just have to agree to disagree, and not waste your time with the things thats irritate you. Your time and energy can be spent on something more productive (the concept of what is productive, is also subjective...hanging out on ATS might be a great way to spend the day for me, but for other people - not so much).

Seriously, there are going to be morons everywhere you go. Its better just to not concern yourself with them. You have better things to do with your time.

reply to post by rawsom



ok, cool, now that there's context, you understand what i was talking about.

all the reptilian crap kinda bothers me too....i mean, yes, maybe there are reptilian aliens, but for christ's sake, do we need a new thread every time a newscast singnal goes wonky, because "OMFGZ, HE'S MORPHING INTO A REPTILE ON TV!!ONE!!!!ELEVENTY!ONE!!"

there reaches a point where it becomes ridiculous beyond everything..

Originally posted by CA_Orot
Seriously, there are going to be morons everywhere you go. Its better just to not concern yourself with them. You have better things to do with your time.

lol, like go to work, and deal with morons