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Officer shoots Tustin driver who weilded a rifle, police say

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posted on Mar, 22 2008 @ 11:49 PM
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Originally posted by rcwj75

I just think to many people carry that to far sometimes. Shooting a guy who is running from you with a women's purse...yeah he should be fired and I understand the outrage. Shooting a guy you ordered 10 times to do something and he doesn't comply then reaches into say a backpack may get shot....is that unreasonable?


No that is not unreasonable. But that is also not relevant.

Most of the threads in question. The trend we have seen in the news and on ATS. Have been very different situations.

It's clear to me, that you are undermining the severity of the situation just to stick up for your fellow policemen. I understand the kinship and the loyalty, but WE are not the ones taking this to far..


Problem is PEOPLE don't look at the whole situation leading UP TO the shootings sometimes..they just look at the cop pulling the trigger...and there needs to be more pause and ability to review it all before making a decision.


Most of the threads that I have seen over the months, and that I have seen you comment in, have been instances where there was testimonies and videos. People getting seriously injured and or killed, and usually by tasers. Many have been traffic stops, the victim (yeah victim) shows verbal defiance and the cop immediately resorts to deadly force.

Maybe you guys should touch up on your judo? Use the baton versus the taser? I teach Eskrima if you guys forgot how to use them



I have been and will be the first to agree and say some cops DO NOT deserve the badge they wear. They CAN'T handle the pressure/stress and they DO use the badge as a ticket to be an A------! Its unfortunate, but true....


Well then allow me to be the second



but the academy, like any training is just that..TRAINING....its not real..there is no real threat to die or be injured....so for some when that day comes out on the street and the stress level goes up, and the situation is going south real fast...that training has just left the building!


That is totally understandable and expected!


However!!

It's just absurd that you get so heated against the "cop-hating bashers" of ATS when all we are really doing is justifiably reacting to the aftershock of these mistakes.

Fact 1) unarmed civilian dies from uneccessary deadly force
Fact 2) as you just stated, this is the result of cops slipping through training that is not "real" and thus they weren't really ready.

Look, there is no preparing for this line of work in it's entirety. But that does not lessen the severity of these events in question. It doesn't bring the victims back to life.

[edit on 113131p://22u43 by Lucid Lunacy]




posted on Mar, 23 2008 @ 12:11 AM
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Originally posted by rcwj75
thanks VLF and I know what you mean..I guess I was wrong for encompassing ALL members from cop threads as haters....

Luckily there are members who can see past the uniform and understand what happened and that it was justified or sometimes NOT justified...but we all know there ARE some on here no matter what is said and done BASH my profession without facts or knowledge of situations....


My only gripe is that it seems most of the time police won't give us civilians that same type of benefit of impartial thinking either(especially if you're brown), so how do we fix that? Or they seem to be so disillusioned it all boils down to "just doing my job" with them accompanied by the absences of compassion. We all know there's good and bad, but what do we do as civilians to help out the good and get the bad out of their positions? All of this of course without having to fear for our own safety or that we might end up being thrown in jail for some arbitrary reason because we pissed off the wrong cop? And maybe make those who are disillusioned care again?

[edit on 23-3-2008 by Shakesbeer]



posted on Mar, 23 2008 @ 12:19 AM
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Originally posted by Lucid Lunacy
It's clear to me, that you are undermining the severity of the situation just to stick up for your fellow policemen. I understand the kinship and the loyalty, but WE are not the ones taking this to far..
============================================
It's just absurd that you get so heated against the "cop-hating bashers" of ATS when all we are really doing is justifiably reacting to the aftershock of these mistakes.


These two go hand and hand. I am not undermining the severity and its not absurd. What i am doing is being able to look at it from a real point of view. Remember MANY who post on cop related threads have never been and will never be a cop. So they will NEVER be in those situations and truly grasp all that happens within a few seconds or minutes. They go to bed and wake up safe and sound of to work where noone will be shooting at them, trying to stab them, or wanting to fight them. Then they come home, log onto ATS, see a thread and BOOM...launch into this mode that I can't explain. So I then read these responses. And of course I will respond...but I respond with an understanding of what may have happened because I may have been involved with something similar.

That would be like me freaking out and bashing a Doctor who's patient died in the OR because he failed to sew up a blood vessel. I will never be or have been a doctor...so I will NOT sit here and bash him....even if Im thinking "how in the world could a trained doctor have done something like that and let that person die"...



Maybe you guys should touch up on your judo? Use the baton versus the taser? I teach Eskrima if you guys forgot how to use them


My tactics for apprehension are just fine...thank though....
I can even pull out my RAY JACKSON "bloodsport" double ax handle chop to the head when needed....



posted on Mar, 23 2008 @ 12:25 AM
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reply to post by Shakesbeer
 


Well I'm sorry you feel that way. I deal with white, brown, black, yellow, red all the same. To me its the persons attitude and demeanor...skin color don't matter one bit. I do understand your frustration...as I said there are cops who are just idiots...they treat people as such and cast a shadow over the rest of us. I can tell you this...in my department...I hear a guy talking to somone like an egotistical a-- and I WILL say something to him, and have already.

It's like anything...I wish some citizens I had to deal with daily were nicer too...can i use their behavior to cast a shadow over the rest of you...no...I just have to leave him knowing he is an idiot and start thinking the next guy won't be!



posted on Mar, 23 2008 @ 12:25 AM
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I used to be a cop. The politics (small town politics, none the less) grew tiresome very very quickly. So I moved on. I miss it every time I see a unit running code (lights and/or sirens).

First of all, I would like to say that for every bad cop scenario, there is a good cop scenario that you do not hear about. Good news does not sell. Bad news does.

Second, my observation of police officers is this: There are two reasons one becomes an officer. One either wants to help others, or they want to be in a place of authority.

Lastly, I would like to say that I genuinely wanted to help people. I was an officer for five years. I received so many letters of gratitude from people that I helped. I am a kind person with a big heart. Having a quota is illegal, but we had to make 15 contacts a day. That was the workaround to quotas. Well, instead of doing like they wanted and writing 15 tickets a day, I would write maybe 5-6 tickets a day. The other 9-10 contacts were made while patrolling. I would stop and talk to random people that were outside running, working their lawns, partying, etc. The people knew me and respected me. When they called to dispatch, they asked if I could come out. I ran some numbers and found out out that I had 50% less calls the all the other officers while I was on duty. Why? Because I was patrolling, and not sitting on the highway running radar for 8 hours. That does not help people. If I was on the highway while on patrol, and saw someone breaking the law, I would pull them over. But I would not sit there and wait for them. I know that all the city wanted was income . . . but I was not sworn to provide income for said city. I was sworn to uphold the laws of the state.

Anyways . . . I finally had enough of the BS . . . told them to F off, and retired from law enforcement. (BTW, when I resigned, a petition went around the town to try and keep me. The population of the town was 10,000 . . . the petition had 7500 names on it. Hmmm
The mayor and chief did not like that much . . . heh heh).

I know . . . I rambled



posted on Mar, 23 2008 @ 12:32 AM
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reply to post by Shakesbeer
 


I think that's the real crux of it there. Most cops have little interest in diffusing a situation, until they are forced to. As long as the force is on their side, they're not interested and will jack you up the quickest way they know how.

But this is a double-edged sword. Hesitation is tactically dangerous. A seemingly sensible person can go superfly in point five.

I personally was never able to reconcile this to my liking, and therefore want nothing more to do with uniformed service.



posted on Mar, 23 2008 @ 12:36 AM
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reply to post by xxpigxx
 


Isn't that always the way. The ones who do the job the way its meant to be done get scooted out the door. "Always the dollars" as the Joe Pesci character said in Casino.



posted on Mar, 23 2008 @ 01:20 AM
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Originally posted by rcwj75
 

Well I'm sorry you feel that way. I deal with white, brown, black, yellow, red all the same...


That's cool man, I really don't know you but I have no reason to not trust you but if more police projected and acted the same way you apparently do, we would have less "cop haters". You guys have to enforce too many BS laws and are tied in ways that you shouldn't be and unbridled in places now where there should be protection. I know it's not your guy's fault (law enforcement) it's the laws'. More people need to pay attention to what the law makers are doing (like what's in parts of the patriot act). But yeah unfortunately there seems to be an awful lot of "profiling" at times.


Originally posted by jackinthebox
 

But this is a double-edged sword. Hesitation is tactically dangerous. A seemingly sensible person can go superfly in point five.

Yeah, pretty much...



posted on Mar, 23 2008 @ 10:54 AM
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Originally posted by Shakesbeer
That's cool man, I really don't know you but I have no reason to not trust you but if more police projected and acted the same way you apparently do, we would have less "cop haters". You guys have to enforce too many BS laws and are tied in ways that you shouldn't be and unbridled in places now where there should be protection. I know it's not your guy's fault (law enforcement) it's the laws'. More people need to pay attention to what the law makers are doing (like what's in parts of the patriot act). But yeah unfortunately there seems to be an awful lot of "profiling" at times.


You are correct...some laws on the books are completely idiotic. You will not see me writing tickets for minor traffic or vehicle violations. All that is, is the state wanting money. One of our laws is both license plate lights have to be working properly...SORRY...I may pull you over to inform you of the problem so you DON'T get a ticket from a trooper or other deputy, but I am not going to make you pay a fine for that. I'd rather see you take that money and fix the light! So yes, people DEFINITLY need to pay more attention to their governments and the people involved in writing and passing these kinds of petty money making laws.

As for profiling...yes unfortunatly it does exsist. Where people go wrong is when a BOLO (Be On the Look Out) comes in for a 6' 200lbs black man wearing blue jeans and a white tshirt etc.... people still think we are profiling when we stop a guy who is close to 6' 200lbs and he's black, when all we are doing is finding people who meet the suspect description. There should be SOME understanding at that point.



posted on Mar, 23 2008 @ 11:47 AM
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reply to post by rcwj75
 



Glad I wasn't the only one who ignored idiotic laws. Be safe out there man.





posted on Mar, 23 2008 @ 09:19 PM
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rcwj75/xxpigxx - Do/Did you catch flak for not emphasizing those laws you felt are a waste of time(or a drain on civilians)?

[edit on 23-3-2008 by Shakesbeer]



posted on Mar, 23 2008 @ 09:59 PM
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reply to post by Shakesbeer
 


I did by some, but what I do on a traffic stop is my descretion...so nothing major. Usually it's the young guys with less then a year on the job who ask why I didn't cite the driver. I then explain to them the same thing I posted. I told them it makes no sense to ticket a person for something VERY minor and make them spend that money on a ticket rather then fic the problem....then I tell them...think about it this way kid. Would YOU want that ticket or would you rather have a chance to fix the car?



posted on Mar, 23 2008 @ 10:22 PM
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reply to post by rcwj75
 


Dude, you should be giving speeches to new & old cops as well as the public on that subject because that is one major line of rational that seems absent more often then not. very cool, you can violate my Miranda rights at your will(thanks Mr. Bush/patriot act!
) any time man, you seem to be quiet the level headed cop.


It's a shame that blind obedience has replaced rational thought in this country at times where it counts. Like in how Joe-average-civilian scrapping by now has to pay the fine as well as fix their car like you said.

Is it generally frowned upon from "above" to give warnings in such incidents you where describing?



posted on Mar, 23 2008 @ 10:44 PM
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reply to post by Shakesbeer
 


I think what happens is to many officers take the job too personal and take it home with them at night. They build anger and rage over stuff that is petty and stupid. I work my 12 hours shift and when its done, I'M DONE! If I see someone getting beat up, or raped, or held up etc..sure I will then get involved but some of these guys will be driving home and see a guy run a stop sign and follow them, call it in, etc....screw that. I am all for protection and serving...and doing what I must to keep people safe and do my job right...but its not my entire life...its MY JOB! When guys have been on the force awhile they learn that...and realize that its NOT worth making it personal or taking those emotions from the job home with you.

I do my job, I do it well....but I don't let the job take over my life. I think thats they key....



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