Global warming is REAL.

Originally posted by Outland
Science, good or bad, has little to do with one's spelling ability and you should check your own spelling as well.

First of all, if i was to put up a site which is claiming to have good scientific data, I think it is important to check the spelling as it speaks volumes on whether or not the owner of that source, or site, has truly put enough time in it. Am I posting such a site claiming this? No.

Anyway, I think we should stay on topic, so i am not going to point at your own spelling mistakes and make this thread another ridiculous attempt to start an attack between members, much less over spelling. There is a difference between having a discussion between members in a site such as this and having spelling mistakes, and posting a web site for the only purpose of giving valuable scientific data.

You are not the only one having folllowed this topic for years.

The fact is that we know that the current in the Atlantic is changing, and this change in the Ocean conveyor will cause extreme weather conditions in those regions close to the northern hemisphere. That's a fact.

Second it has also been found that there is strong magmatic activity underneath the Artic Ocean, and this is also a cause for the apparent melting of glaciers around the north pole, which releases more fresh water into the Ocean and causes the North Atlantic Ocean conveyor to slow down even more, and could even stop, in the not so distant future.

"The Gakkel ridge is a gigantic volcanic mountain chain stretching beneath the Arctic Ocean. With its deep valleys 5,500 meter beneath the sea surface and its 5,000 meter high summits, Gakkel ridge is far mightier than the Alps. This is the site of seafloor spreading that is actively separating Europe from North America, and was the goal of the international expedition AMORE (Arctic Mid-Ocean Ridge Expedition) with two research icebreakers, the "USCGC Healy" from USA and the German "PFS Polarstern". Aboard were scientists from the Max Planck Institute for Chemistry and other international institutions. The scientists had expected that the Gakkel ridge would exhibit "anemic" magmatism. Instead, surprisingly strong magmatic activity in the West and the East of the ridge and one of the strongest hydrothermal activities ever seen at mid-ocean ridges were found. These results require a fundamental rethinking of the mechanisms of seafloor generation at midocean ridges (Nature, January 16 and June 26)."

Excerpt taken from.
www.mpg.de...

You also have this.

"CHANGING CLIMATE
Going to depths for evidence of global warming
Heating trend in North Pacific baffles researchers

A puzzling heating trend on the bottom of the North Pacific has left oceanographers scratching their heads.

Since 1985, just south of the Aleutian Islands and about 3 miles beneath the waves, in a pitch-black realm haunted by "Finding Nemo"-style fish with nasty fangs and glowing antennae, the temperature has risen by a tiny fraction of a degree -- five-thousandths of a degree Centigrade, to be exact.

Sounds slight, right? But the temperature shouldn't be rising at all, or hardly at all, over such a geologically short time, according to respected computer models. The history of science shows that slight discrepancies occasionally lead to big discoveries, hence oceanographers are carefully scrutinizing the find.

"We find that the deepest waters of the North Pacific Ocean have warmed significantly across the entire width of the ocean basin," Japanese and Canadian scientists report in the current issue of the journal Nature. "

Excerpts taken from.
sfgate.com.../chronicle/archive/2004/03/01/MNGEL5B7VE1.DTL

Another theory says that the solar cycles are the ones responsible for climate change.

"The Ice Age is Coming
by Zbigniew Jaworowski, M.D., Ph.D., D.Sc.

The author�s colleague, K. Cielecki, excavating an ice sample from a shaft in the middle of an ice cliff at Jatunjampa Glacier in the Peruvian Andes. The black lines reflect a summer deposition of dust on top of particular annual ice layers. The black layer near the top of Cielecki�s head was formed after the 1963 eruption of volcano Gunung Agung in Bali, Indonesia, causing the highest volcanic dust veil in the atmosphere since 1895. Some of the other black lines reflect local eruptions."

Excerpt taken from.
www.21stcenturysciencetech.com...

There is another theory that has been presented is that it is not so much a Global warming as an Ocean warming, which will cause also cooling in other areas. I think this theory has "some" good points to offer about the changes we are seeing on the climate.

"Shivering in the Surf
Atlantic's Sudden Temperature Dive A Midsummer Mystery for Scientists
By John F. Kelly
Washington Post Staff Writer
Thursday, August 7, 2003; Page A01


David Quillin, a surfer from Maryland's Eastern Shore, knows what cold seawater feels like: It makes exposed flesh feel like it's burning, sets hands and feet to tingling, numbs the body and, after repeated dunkings, produces a painful "ice cream" headache.



The 38-year-old architect expects all of this when he surfs the frigid waters off Ocean City in January. He didn't expect it in the middle of summer. But it's just what Quillin encountered when he paddled his board into the surf two weeks ago.

"I've never experienced it in my whole life," he recounted, "where the water right along shore could be that radically cold."

Quillin isn't alone in his observation. Surfers, lifeguards, anglers and others who regularly dip a toe into the Atlantic have noticed this summer that water that is typically bathwater-warm has occasionally become fjord-cold.

"During [most of] July, our water temperatures were, I would say, right around normal," said Capt. Butch Arbin, head of the Ocean City Beach Patrol. That's in the low 70s. About two weeks ago, he said, "there was a tremendous change in temperature, [dropping] as much as 10 degrees overnight." "

Excerpts taken from.
www.washingtonpost.com...

A lot of this information can also be found at.
www.iceagenow.com...

Outland.... It is true that the term "global warming" has been misused, as the warming and cooling will be more regional, but all this will affect the globe, and it will cause extreme changes in the climate.

The fact is also that the Arctic glaciers "are melting."

"Navy report shows polar cap is shrinking fast
Maritime military may soon face challenge of dealing with new ocean


By Doug O'harra
Anchorage Daily News

(Published: March 9, 2002)

The polar ice cap has been shrinking so fast that regular ships may be steaming through the Northwest Passage each summer by 2015, and along northern Russia even sooner, according to a new U.S. Navy report.

Global warming will open the Arctic Ocean to unprecedented commercial activity. The seasonal expansion of open water may draw commercial fishing fleets into the Chukchi and Beaufort seas north of Alaska within a few decades. The summer ice cover could even disappear entirely by 2050 -- or be concentrated around northern Greenland and Ellesmere Island.

For the U.S. Navy, this presents an unprecedented challenge: a new ocean. "

Excerpts taken from.
www.adn.com...

This will definitely cause change in the Atlantic conveyor current, and bring regional cooling to those countries closest to the northern hemisphere.

yes global warming is real and it is happening slowly there is something living things do called adapt

Yeah, well, in the past when some species were not prepared to new conditions they normally die off. You can't adapt so easily, much less entire civilizations, to such dramatic climate changes without making some preparations before hand.

BTW, it is not going to be so slow of a change if the Arctic will be a new Ocean by 2015, or before.


[Edited on 7-5-2004 by Muaddib]

well in most of the united states when it warms it will probably become as hot as countries like egypt and parts of africa so if you are living in africa you are screwed and cant adapt but easterners will be fine and another advanatge we have is AC and using houses to get out of the sun but we will lose our florida keys

Heres something to consider...as CO2 continues to build up in the atmosphere the quantity and intensity of tropical storms increase logarithmically. If we get to the point of no return, which is widely agreed upon by climatologist to be 1000 ppm(at least from my understanding im not a climatologist) we are screwed.

Machine, it will be colder, not hotter in the northern parts of the U.S. Most of the northern of the U.S and Europe will be just like Siberia, with winter all around until, and if, the Atlantic conveyor current ever returns to what it has been 10 years back. If it doesn't, then all those northern territories will see an ice age for at least a while.

BTW if all the glaciers from the Arctic do melt, the sea level won't be different to what it is now. The Arctic is just an ocean with large glaciers. Consider it as if you have a glass of water with ice in it. If you let the ice melt you will see that the level of the water in your glass will not change.

The problem will be if the ice in Antarctica does melt. Antartica is a landmass covered in ice. If all this ice melts, then the sea level will raise.

The real problem we will have in Florida and other areas of the coast will be what the change in weather will bring. Probably stronger and more frequent storms and hurricanes at the beginning as the change starts to take place. At least until the system balances itself.

[Edited on 9-5-2004 by Muaddib]

Even in reference to the North Atlantic conveyor (fed by the Gulf Stream), there is still no consensus.

In a recent article about the movie "The Day After Tomorrow", Sir David King himself said:
"The current consensus is that climate change may result in a weakening of the Gulf Stream but not a complete halt," he said. "The cooling caused by a weakened Gulf Stream would not actually counteract the general warming caused by increased greenhouse gases. Northern Europe is more likely to get warmer than colder."

An excerpt from the same article:
Geoff Jenkins, a senior climate researcher at the Met Office's Hadley Centre, said the Gulf Stream was switched off completely about 11,000 years ago when freshwater from melting ice sheets flooded into the Atlantic. "Those ice sheets don't exist in Canada any more and so that same sort of thing could not happen again," he said. "Nobody thinks the world is going to cool in terms of precipitating a new ice age and the sort of thing that's in the movie. At the very worst we will see the world warming apart from a bit of the North Atlantic."

Other excerpts:
"The movie exaggerates how quickly climate change can happen. And higher carbon dioxide will not push us into another ice age." Daniel Shrag, Harvard University oceanographer

Article: Ice age movie is realistic, says Britain's chief scientist

I will have more to write as soon as I can find the time, my main point here is that there truly is not an overwhelming scientific consensus as to:
� "Global warming" or "ice age".
�� "Climate change" or just an "anomally".
� The future of the North Atlantic conveyor.
� Why atmosphere and ground temerature records don't match.
� Why the stratosphere indicates cooling.
� Solar and water vapor interaction.
� Exactly how much CO2 would be necessary to affect climate.
� Why some glaciers are retreating while others grow.
� Inaccurate climate models.

Much like the weather itself, there's no certainty in much of the theory either.

More later...

The threat to global stability vastly eclipses that of terrorism

Send your missiles to the sky ? Go with your B2 and bomb the sun ?

You will try like Jezabel to build a tower tall enought to go and make the war to god ?

Ooooooooooooooopppppppppppppsssss..........

Jezabel was the queen of babylon, no ?

[Edited on 13-5-2004 by Nans DESMICHELS]

Those who need a weapons to stay alife are mad...and they are condamned to a certain death, anyway...

[Edited on 13-5-2004 by Nans DESMICHELS]

Well, concidering I live in the icebox of the US, a little global warming might be good for me