The US dollar is DONE!

so what are you guys suggesting? that we bend our knees and fear in terror because our dollar is loosing it's value in Holland? I mean come on! this whole thread is ridiculous. the dollar in NOT done as you guys put it. Ok, so it lost some value. but so what? the only other thing I can say, to those who are worried, buy gold or dollar coins and you'll be fine. But i'm not worried about the dollar being "Done" anytime soon. If it does, heck then I'd buy myself some pesos and go to Cancun for the summer.

Originally posted by jedimiller
so what are you guys suggesting?

It's a purley informative thread. If you prefer to deny reality then that's up to, if you simply believe the Dollar is untouchable then that's up to you as well.

No one is saying 'I force you to do this or that'.

Originally posted by jedimiller
the dollar in NOT done as you guys put it. Ok, so it lost some value. but so what?

If you feel the Dollar is not done, please elaborate why it is not, based on economic facts. Countries are starting to abandon:

- to trade in Dollar (Brazil, Argentina, Iran, etc.
- Dollar denominated reserves (France, Italy, Russia, Jordan to name a few)
- Dollar pegs (Arab Gulf states, Hong Kong)

The Chinese delegation at the world economic forum in Davos warned the US the credit limit has been reached and we are in for a world of hurt now.

As a matter of fact that Chinese are not buying US treasury bonds anymore, nor does Japan (the two biggest US debts buyers).

Sincerely I ask you to prove me the opposite.

[edit on 24-3-2008 by Mdv2]

Originally posted by Mdv2
Sincerely I ask you to prove me the opposite.

How can I prove something that has no solid factual future projection? it's like the stock market. The dollar could go up, or it could go down. But see, I really don't care anymore. I don't trade dollars with other countries.

All the dollars I spend are used properly here in the states. I pay cash for my purchases, I get paid in dollars with my company. I'm not buying euros, pesos or investing in Dollar exchanges. So why should I be worried at all?

ummm.....most of the stuff you buy in the store is bought overseas, with US dollars...dollar loses it's value, it will take more dollars to buy the stuff???

Originally posted by dawnstar
ummm.....most of the stuff you buy in the store is bought overseas, with US dollars...dollar loses it's value, it will take more dollars to buy the stuff???

that's a theory. I think it all has to do with supply and demand. I'm not worried. And I don't see how it would affect the regular joe. However, this will impact those rich folk who invest in dollars as a form to get richer. I'm not rich, so I'm not worried and I shop at Walmart.

Originally posted by jedimiller

Originally posted by dawnstar
ummm.....most of the stuff you buy in the store is bought overseas, with US dollars...dollar loses it's value, it will take more dollars to buy the stuff???

that's a theory. I think it all has to do with supply and demand. I'm not worried. And I don't see how it would affect the regular joe. However, this will impact those rich folk who invest in dollars as a form to get richer. I'm not rich, so I'm not worried and I shop at Walmart.

Ha, well you might start getting worried when a Happy Meal costs $5.00. Of course things will get more expensive as the dollar has less buying power. Gas becomes more expensive and then the 'average joe' or those on fixed incomes fall victim of the 'domino theory'.

I read a lot here and hardly post, but check it:

I was talking to my brother about this today...he's deep in hedge funds and whatnot, but he was saying that the dollar going down is helping the economy in that:

1.) Other countries are able to buy US products at a cheaper price, thereby increasing money flow into our economy which will eventually balance out and regain value somewhat.

2.) Foreign companies will begin building plants in the US in order to take advantage of cheaper materials and labor. I believe BMW stated they were building a few plants in the US...I haven't looked into it too much yet. It makes sense to build products that are highly consumed in the US for foreign companies to save on transportation costs.

The thing that worries him is that there's like 3 or 4 groups that hold over a trillion US dollars, and it's the Chinese, Japanese, Abu Dabi (oil based), and perhaps another one, but if they decided to flood the market, it would really hurt us. However, the Chinese buy bonds in order to artificially lower the yen in relation to the US dollar to ensure that people purchase more items made in China.

Personally, I think once everything balances out, we'll be fine, but it's going to be a more equal global economy than the powerhouse the US once was.

The Problem:

This is an attempt to state it simply, because if you to understand the problem, then you're going to be able to see the solution clearly too. If it doesn't make sense the first time you read it, try reading it again. Eventually, the whole picture will sink in...


A bit of history:

1) Once, gold and silver were considered the only “real” money, but it was heavy and risky to carry around...

2) So people paid goldsmiths to store the money, and got paper receipts for it...

3) After a while, people used the receipts like money, and left the gold in the bank most of the time. So the bankers got clever and came up with a scam...

4) The banks printed off receipts for more gold than they actually had, and “loaned” those receipts out to charge interest on it. They kept their fingers crossed hoping that not too many people would come in trying to redeem their receipts for real gold all at the same time. This let them make a lot of money charging interest, because they could charge interest on MONEY THEY DIDN'T HAVE.


An analogy can be made using property and titles. Here's the scam in another way:

Step 1: Acquire a vacation home.

Step 2: Sell the title to the home to one person.

Step 3: Sell the title to the home to ANOTHER person.

Step 4: Hope they both don't show up on the same weekend!

Fractional reserve banking lets a bank say to a depositor that all his money is safe and sound, at the same time they get to loan out most of it to someone else so the bank can collect interest on it. From the perspective of the depositor, all his money is still in the bank. From the perspective of the borrower, NEW money exists. But the legitimacy of their claims are based on the same original pile of money, which hasn't changed. Where did the new money come from? The astonishing answer is that the bank CREATED IT so they could loan it to the borrower. From thin air. This new money is then deposited into another bank, which “loans” out most of it too, and the process is repeated over and over. If you do the math, there is far more money CREATED by banks in loans than existed in the first place.

Considering all the interest being made on all these loans you see it is a very profitable scam. The risk comes when too many people come asking for their deposits all at once. Then the only thing the banks can do is call in as many loans as possible and see how much they're able to cough up, which is invariably far less than what people thought they had tucked away safely.

One final note: in the example with the vacation home, the banking scam works the same way except... THERE IS NO HOME! There is no gold backing the receipts anymore, so essentially we have all been trading titles without property!


What's the result?

1) Almost every dollar that exists is owed to a bank somewhere, because at some time in history, it was created when it was loaned out.

2) Far more dollars are owed to banks (because of compound interest) than even exists! So as a country, we cannot possibly get out of debt under this system. It is important to recognize, however, that the bulk of our debt is in the form interest, which is an arbitrary amount of money banks demand in return, but never gave you. This raises questions of its legitimacy.

3) There is no money, in the real sense. Just checks, data stored on computers, and promises. It is all created by typing on a keyboard, and signing signatures. The only tangible assets in regard to money is the collateral we pledge when we ask for a loan. The money they loan you comes from nowhere, but the assets you lose in foreclosure are real!

4) Because the US government borrows from the Federal Reserve, bankers have the power to influence our society and government by controlling finance. They decide to create (or not create) money depending on who's asking, and for what. They choose what projects get funded, and let other needs wither on the vine by starving them of working capital. This subtle yet immense power is more than enough to undermine democracy, and guide the course of a nation's history.



What is the solution?

Simple. Money must not be created in the form of loans. It must be something that once created, circulates permanently. Otherwise many forms of abuse and deceit can work their way into the system, and a class of parasites will rise to power in society by cleverly disguising the fact that they can create money from thin air.

Europe shows resilience in face of U.S. downturn
Europe is shrugging off the thunderclouds in the United States, with new surveys Wednesday showing rising business confidence in Germany, France, and Belgium. The president of the European Central Bank even dampened hopes for a cut in interest rates soon.

Taken together, these developments seemed to turn an old adage about trans-Atlantic economic relations on its head: When the United States catches a cold, does Europe even sneeze?

source

i think the European central bank is co-ordinating some moves with the fed.

the fed has to keep rates low because this = high oil prices

the gov't spends lots of money , high oil prices ensure that our arab buddies have alot of dollars which they use a portion of (petro -recycling) to buy u.s treasury debt (returning favor for increased wealth) this purchase of treasury debt helps ensure that long term interest rates are kept relatively low supporting the U.S treasury bond market (which is larger than the stock market in total value)

remember oil prices have risen nearly 8 fold while the dollar has lost about 40 percent of value (last decade or less) , seems to me when (devaluation is factored in) the arabs are still making a killing.

the european oligarchs (club of isle's) own a large stake in the world's diamonds and also a few petro company's, where their assets are priced in dollars, they enjoy when their assets tend to sky rocket in value, perhaps they would frown on ECB cutting rates, unless they could do so in a way that sustains large commodity prices.

Not very bright on economics, so I ask some people here who seem to know more.
They said when Clinton was in office (this is not a political thread just part of a question) They said we had a surplus and we had no debt, was this the case? And was all this debt accumulated again since then. Or is the surplus we had something totally different.

If we had had a surplus again would we be in this mess? and does that mean we can do it again with the correct people.

Again sorry if the question is stupid.