Top UK police chief is found dead

reply to post by Freeborn


Indeed but it is a bit fishy though....

I'll wait and see then.

Deputy Chief Constable Dave Whatton confirmed the death of his friend, a father-of-three, in a statement outside force headquarters in Manchester on Tuesday evening.

Then.

Mr Whatton said although the body had yet to be formally identified, he believed it was that of the chief constable.

I wonder whether if they found a genuine photograph of Condoleeza Rice's Tits stuffed into Todd's mouth they would tell us about it or not. I wonder whether it was even Todd up on that mountain at all.

Early days catcheth the birds. Yes.

[fnord]Cardassians[/fnord]

Some gibberish or another will most likely be legislated to prevent a "proper" inquest -- a Hutton-esque "touch of paint" about the place, there, if you so will.

Or perhaps not. Perhaps time will tell. But Perhaps it won't. Obviously some persons do indeed die because they somehow kill themselves, but obviously sometimes persons don't die because they've somehow killed themselves.

Who trusts the British Legal system and the BBC to open the boxed cat of an undetermined fate?

Hopefully not you, dear reader, hopefully not you.

I have to agree with Freeborn, I just don't see any justification for calling this a conspiracy at this point. It's one thing to speculate, but I've yet to see anyone even suggest a possible motive except for maybe revenge for outing the CIA rendition flights.

If one is going to claim this is a conspiracy, how about doing what ATS members do best and scour the web and other resources for evidence that might lead to that conclusion?

I'm very skeptical of most conspiracy theories and think that the circumstances of this man's death will probably end up being just another case of a poor, confused soul feeling lost in this world, but if I was a true believer I'd probably be looking into his activities and actions in regards to the outing of those rendition flights, 7/7, the increasing daily surveillance of UK citizens, or even the death of Lady Diana. Then again maybe it could simply be something as mundane as police graft or corruption. But regardless of what the motive is specifically, if there were a conspiracy to murder the man, there would have to be a pretty darn good reason for it and if any part of that reason is public knowledge ATS members should be able to ferret it out.

Just my $.02,

-Cypher

Morning all.. I agree that a bit of restraint would be the decent thing at this stage, he appears to be a very highly regarded individual by his colleagues etc..

What has been mentioned on gmtv (british breakfast programme) this morning was that allegedly a Sunday newspaper was planning to release a story about how he has apparently living a double life from his wife and family. If this was the case he had a good 5 days to get some legal representation or make use of his no doubt considerable contacts to keep things quiet.

I obviously don't know the man but general responses are that this apparent suicide is very out of character.

I feel sorry for his family



[edit on 12-3-2008 by badBERTHA]

Why would the head of police commit suicide in the middle of nowhere where he knows it would tie up all the emergency services. Surely he wouldn't want to waste the time of these services.

It's the way they have all the answers so fast that makes me suspect, my guess is if he really committed suicide out of the blue they wouldn't release this to the press until it had been discussed thouroughly at all levels and and they had time to make up the some bull#. I feel the press story was ready and waiting like 9/11 before he even died.

Plus it's got doctor kelly all over it. People like this don't jsut commit suicide out the blue do they?

Top Police Chief who lead CIA probe found dead in strange circumstances, no reason to suspect a conspiracy here lol.

Why would the head of police commit suicide in the middle of nowhere where he knows it would tie up all the emergency services. Surely he wouldn't want to waste the time of these services.

It's the way they have all the answers so fast that makes me suspect, my guess is if he really committed suicide out of the blue they wouldn't release this to the press until it had been discussed thouroughly at all levels and and they had time to make up the some bull#. I feel the press story was ready and waiting like 9/11 before he even died.

Plus it's got doctor kelly all over it. People like this don't jsut commit suicide out the blue do they?

Top Police Chief who lead CIA probe found dead in strange circumstances, no reason to suspect a conspiracy here lol.

When was the last time a high ranking UK official investigating the secret services commited 'suicide' in the middle of nowhere?

Does the CIA have a history of removing people in high places who are getting close to their secret agenda?

Does most propaganda seem to be distributed via the BBC first?

Being a poker player I try and quantify imy decision from the evidence available to me. With the 'reads' I have it's a very easy call. At least 70/30.

I get the 30% from a 20% chance he comitted suicide after discovering what was really going on and realising he couldn't get out + 10% chance that this double life stuff was the reason.

This is a quick calculation made off the top of my head as if I was at the poker table.


[edit on 12-3-2008 by redzi0n]

This reminds me unnervingly of the disappearance of Dr Richard Stevens.

www.thewestmorlandgazette.co.uk...

It was discussed in this thread and this post by me gives an overview...

www.abovetopsecret.com...

This strikes me as curious from the update;

news.bbc.co.uk...

The search for him began in the early hours of Tuesday, but it was later in the day that hill walkers reported seeing a body near the summit of Snowdon.

Rescuers, who had been searching nine miles (15 km) away, were redirected to Bwlch Glas.

I would presume they were searching the original location because that is where he said he was going or was where he normally went ???

What were walkers doing out if....

"Winds on the mountain were blowing at 80 knots and were blowing directly in the faces of the guys, who also faced intermittent snow showers.

Similarly in the case of Dr Stevens, his body was found (although months after he disappeared) by walkers...in winter, when very few people are about and conditions are poor. What struck me about the Stevens case was that the family would not drop it, they kept the publicity going, and just as they were about to launch a major campaign the body was found...completely off the beaten track. There had been sightings before his discovery that the family were convinced were him and yet they did not fit in with the official verdict. With a figure like Todd, IF someone were to have been involved in his death, then I would expect that they would not want too much publicity and will be looking for the closure of the case asap.

Given the time of year and the weather, I find it a little suspicious that they found him so early and that the walkers were able to so conveniently point the professional searchers in the right direction.

It'll be interesting to see how quickly the story goes away.

I also think it is worth adding the rather convenient death of Robin Cook up a mountain too. This one has a huge stench to it given the whole Al Qaeda database and general opposition to the war in Iraq. May not seem related but I can't help thinking that there is some connection, I just can't quite grasp it yet.

This is an interesting take on why Robin Cook may have represented a threat worth removing...

shaphan.typepad.com...

Chief Constable Todd had "voiced doubts about his state of mind just hours before going missing".

Rumours about his private life had been circulating for years, (he allegedly had an affair with a female detective now stationed in Herts which produced an illegitemate child).

www.timesonline.co.uk...

www.thesun.co.uk...

Whether this stands up to scrutiny only time will tell but at least now people have something to debate and research instead of crying "conspiracy" without even knowing the official story.

And we criticise MSM for being sensationalist and blinkered!

Originally posted by Freeborn
Chief Constable Todd had "voiced doubts about his state of mind just hours before going missing".

Rumours about his private life had been circulating for years, (he allegedly had an affair with a female detective now stationed in Herts which produced an illegitemate child).

www.timesonline.co.uk...

www.thesun.co.uk...

Whether this stands up to scrutiny only time will tell but at least now people have something to debate and research instead of crying "conspiracy" without even knowing the official story.

And we criticise MSM for being sensationalist and blinkered!

Oh come on!!!

He seems to have been managing his complicated love life for many years but he snaps now. He can handle a highly demanding and stressfull job, but throws himself off a mountain because of his 'affairs'?? Purlease. Where are the names of all these people who have chosen to comment, personally I am not convinced by the Times, Mirror and Sun citing "a Police source", "a friend" and a "senior Police source".

Why exactly would this lead someone to 'crack'?

www.timesonline.co.uk...

Another source described Mr Todd, a rising star in national policing, as a handsome and charismatic man who was always popular with women. It was an “open secret” that he had enjoyed at least one extra-marital relationship with a female police officer, the source claimed.

And this seems established and amicable enough;

For the past ten years Mr Todd, 50, had been living in a flat in Manchester while his wife Caroline lived at the family home near Newark, Nottinghamshire, with their twin 14-year-old boys and 17-year-old daughter. There had been speculation about his private life.

Could this have been a stress factor though, seems more likely to me;

He would have been walking during heavy rains and chilly temperatures in winds that were gusting at up to 30mph (48km/h), but the area escaped the worst of the violent storms that battered South Wales. Mr Todd had been due to attend a meeting at Scotland Yard with police chiefs today.

...but then I suppose we would have to know what that meeting was about. Do you think they'll tell us??

And yet

Friends agreed, and were quick to dismiss any suggestion of financial or professional irregularities by Mr Todd, who had been touted as the next commissioner of the Metropolitan Police.

I wonder why they are so quick to dismiss such suggestions, all these people whom he talked to about his state of mind, and yet no-one seems to have been much help. The denial seems all a little too rapid in my mind.

And, this is a conspiracy site, so expect the conspiratorial response, the whole point is to look deeper and read behind the lines.

Interestingly enough, the Guardian are not running with the sensationalist 'affairs' angle and list none of the 'sources' that the right of the field seem to be touting. The only item of note in their report is

In 2006 he became the vice-chairman of the Association of Chief Police Officers, the politically powerful group of senior officers that helps set policy across constabularies. His interests in the body included counter-terrorism and media policy. Greater Manchester became the first area outside London to launch a dedicated counter-terrorism unit.

www.guardian.co.uk...

Something is odd here, one way or another.

reply to post by KilgoreTrout


I don't dismiss that there might be a conspiratorial angle to this.
In fact I think it's more than likely.

I just think that screaming "conspiracy" the minute someone in the public eye dies without any sort of supportive evidence does more harm than good.
At least wait till the official version of events is released.
Examine the evidence and provide alternative evidence if available.

Some of these cases are just what they are.

Crying "conspiracy" at every available opportunity just discredits conspiracy theorists and helps MSM dismiss genuine cases; (Dr Kelly springs to mind!)

Seriously, what evidence is there to support conspiracy accusations at this moment other than personal opinions which are based on assumptions with no factual evidence at all.

Would help to find out who does the autopsy, and the coroners case history. If there is something suss, they will likely use a guy they can trust to help cover things up.

Originally posted by Freeborn
I just think that screaming "conspiracy" the minute someone in the public eye dies without any sort of supportive evidence does more harm than good.
At least wait till the official version of events is released.
Examine the evidence and provide alternative evidence if available.

On forums dedicated to the discussion of food preparation one may find many recipies. Besides, I don't really see many people running aforth "screaming conspiracy." A few people have suggested it in passing. That's all. Do you consider that to be unreasonable or surprising on boards dedicated to conspiracy discussion?

Originally posted by Freeborn
Crying "conspiracy" at every available opportunity just discredits conspiracy theorists and helps MSM dismiss genuine cases; (Dr Kelly springs to mind!)

Seriously, what evidence is there to support conspiracy accusations at this moment other than personal opinions which are based on assumptions with no factual evidence at all.

Would you relax? You sound like BBC News reading automaton. What factual evidence is there to suggest that he actually did kill himself at this point? A few rumours of illigitimate children and an unstable state of mind just prior to going missing? You're just as guilty of putting forward personal opinions and speculations as the next man. You may well turn out to be correct in your assertions, but this thing smells bad already and I'm glad some people here have noticed that.

Nothing is true. Everything is permissive.

[edit on 12-3-2008 by Yaltabaoth]

Originally posted by Yaltabaoth

On forums dedicated to the discussion of food preparation one may find many recipies.

And someone would have tasted the recipe and known it to be edible and reasonably tasteful.
No-one has any evidence at all of a conspiracy at present.

Would you relax?

Relax?
I assure you, I am perfectly relaxed.
Remeber, I'm the one saying sit back, watch and see what the official version of events is.
Only then will anyone be able to make a balanced judgement call if there are grounds for any suspicion of a conspiracy.
For any sort of conspiracy in this there has to be an attempted "cover up".
As there is no official version of events how can a "cover up" have occurred?

That he has had affairs and that this may, (MAY), be the reason behind his (possible) suicide has been widely reported in MSM by named collegues and associates.
Not exactly rumour mongering.

It is customary on this site to provide some sort of evidence when declaring "conspiracy".
None has been supplied as yet.

Just because this is a conspiracy site desn't mean that any event is open to being called a conspiracy without reason.
Many have tried, even in my short time here, and failed.

If something is to be treat with respect and credability then at least a little proof is generally required.
Hence my assertion, to sit back and wait and see what "officialdom" offers up by means as an excuse or reason.

As I stated previously; I certainly don't discount the possibility of a conspiracy, I suspect it's even probable, it's just far too early to tell.

Firstly lets never believe anything we ever read in the Sun. I send my deepest regards to his familly, conspiracy or not, they have lost a husband/father. Although the suicide does seem questionable, il keep my thoughts to myself untill more news comes in and more facts are unearthed.

Heres a different point of view though.

Walking in Snowdon in those winds is crazy and dangerous, but if a man wants to commit suicide, like they suggest, that time and place would be perfect?

reply to post by Freeborn


I wouldn't say anyone is screaming conspiracy, Although this is a website that talks about conspiraciesl!!! In a way ,this may sound bad, i hope he was murdered ,becasue to commit suicide like this and leave all his responablities behind is not a way to be remembered........If he was murdered becasue of knowledge of something or his work as a policeman at least it would be a heroes death..

[edit on 12-3-2008 by Peruvianmonk]

Originally posted by Freeborn
And someone would have tasted the recipe and known it to be edible and reasonably tasteful.

As it is.

Originally posted by Freeborn
No-one has any evidence at all of a conspiracy at present.

No, they do not. Yet, neither does anyone have any evidence to the contrary, that still didn't stop you linking to the Sun, and inserting other conjecture into this thread insinuating that he committed suicide.

On the first page you wrote "Just go's to show, you can never what's going on in someone's mind and how finely balanced some of us are," then go around accusing people of "screaming conspiracy?" The unusual thing about your entire stance is that you actually later go on to say that you "think it's more than likely" that this is a conspiracy, yet moan at anyone else who mentions the same. Then you get all sarcastic:

Originally posted by Freeborn
Just a thought but....maybe, just maybe, because he wanted to visit his favourite place one last time before he killed himself??
Not that uncommon in suicides.

Why?

Originally posted by Freeborn
Relax?
I assure you, I am perfectly relaxed.
Remeber, I'm the one saying sit back, watch and see what the official version of events is.

I don't think you quite know exactly what you're saying. You keep contradicting yourself.

Originally posted by Freeborn
Only then will anyone be able to make a balanced judgement call if there are grounds for any suspicion of a conspiracy.
For any sort of conspiracy in this there has to be an attempted "cover up".
As there is no official version of events how can a "cover up" have occurred?

There is an official version of events though, right there in the initial BBC News article. It's not finialised yet, but it is there, and we can pick holes in it if we so choose, Sir.

Originally posted by Freeborn
That he has had affairs and that this may, (MAY), be the reason behind his (possible) suicide has been widely reported in MSM by named collegues and associates.
Not exactly rumour mongering.

Not exactly rumour mongering? Yes it is. Read back to yourself what you've just written, and then read Kilgore Trout's posts in this thread (if you haven't already).

Originally posted by Freeborn
It is customary on this site to provide some sort of evidence when declaring "conspiracy".
None has been supplied as yet.

I am fully aware what is and is not customary on this site, thank you very kindly.

Originally posted by Freeborn
Just because this is a conspiracy site desn't mean that any event is open to being called a conspiracy without reason.
Many have tried, even in my short time here, and failed.

Without reason? You yourself said you think it's likely that this is a conspiracy, so what is your actual problem? Are you the only one allowed to point it out?

Originally posted by Freeborn
If something is to be treat with respect and credability then at least a little proof is generally required.
Hence my assertion, to sit back and wait and see what "officialdom" offers up by means as an excuse or reason.

Can't we do this aswell as posting that we find all this suspicious and we think it might be a conspiracy? What is your actual problem? If someone makes a seperate thread saying this is 100% a conspiracy, then you may have a point with all this circle-spinning, but as it stands, you do not.

Originally posted by Freeborn
As I stated previously; I certainly don't discount the possibility of a conspiracy, I suspect it's even probable, it's just far too early to tell.

"Early days catcheth the birds. Yes."






EDIT: BB

[edit on 12-3-2008 by Yaltabaoth]

This is the second suicide of a police officer in recent months.

The first being Mr Hardwick.

I mention it to point out that suicides happen regardless of position, job, wealth and personal/non-personal problems.

An ex-girlfriend of mine attempted suicide several times (before I met her). She was diagnosed as suffering manic depression. She said that before she "committed" suicide (in her mind it was meant to be permanent) she would go about her daily routine, being extremely happy because she knew "it" would be over before the day was out. She could have no problems at all but still want to kill herself. She hadn't always been suicidal and didn't try before her 30's. Again, I say I've mentioned this to point out that the mind-set of a suicidal person is not typical and can come on at any point in life regardless of previous expression of suicidal tendencies. Other people are not always aware of the suicides intention.

My first thoughts of this police chief's suicide were that it was not self inflicted and that it could be a conspiracy. Considering other deaths of high-profile people who have dared speak out against this government (Labour), it seems to happen quite a lot. Until further investigations have been done (and they will be done as they have before for similar cases), I for one will keep an open mind.

People around him might not have been aware of his intention to suicide. People go walking in gales. People have more than double lives. I'm going to keep reading this thread and the news. It's an open verdict for me.

[edit on 12/3/2008 by Rapacity]

This screams conspiracy to me! No way that this guy commited suicide... obviously he was seen as a major threat by MI6, he was MURDERED no doubt.
MI6 have many skilled operatives (I should know!) who have been trained in methods to kill in such a way that it is seen to be a "suicide"...
There is also another, more indirect way to kill him... using the HAARP system its possible to direct ELF VLF and LF frequencies into the human brain, this has been PROVEN to disorientate and lead people to suicide... this is a possibility also.


Resentedhalo08