British ratification of EU treaty- a loss of freedom

reply to post by 44soulslayer


Taxation and immigration reasons.

However they are living proof that we dont need to be in the EU to be prosperous economically or socially.

Thus the EU is worthless to us; making membership undesirable.

Even if it is not Switzerland's non-membership of the EU that makes them prosperous, it is proof that EU membership is unecessary. Wouldnt you agree?

reply to post by 44soulslayer


No, far from it.
The young generation are pro-European, see official polls [I made a thread about it], but the world war II generation tend to think Germany is about to try and invade again

Switzerland wants to be European, trade with Europe but does not want to share with the rest of us by opening up her market. That's not fair.

I support and believe in a stronger European Union. Why? Because I do not support protectionism or 1930s Britishness in which we think we rule the world with a mighty empire. Without the European Union, Britain is nothing in this world and will get ignored (See our relations with the US). We live in a global world and need a strong Europe to compete with China and India.

Little old England does not rule or influence the world anymore, which eurosceptics tend to forget.

Britain would be far worse off and the economy would be worthless. We do not produce anything and have no industry. How do you reckon we will survive on our own?

[edit on 3-4-2008 by infinite]

In that case the choice should be a clear cut IN/ OUT on Europe. We should either have a European superstate or be totally sovereign.

This half hearted limbo we find ourselves in with the EU is causing us to foot the bills and enjoy none of the benefits.

What the UK & the EU needs are politicians who actually serve their people and do so with a strong sense of honor, integrity, morality and ethics, but instead all we have are corrupt bought & paid for politicians who are nothing more than political prostitutes pushing someone elses agenda and it's certainly not beneficial to the British people or the people of the EU.

This is New Labours logo supposedly promoting prosperity and peace. How ominous that it just happens to look like a swastika.



www.themidnightsun.org...

Here's someone else whose fed up with being governed by our corrupt, lying politicians and unlike the rest of us, has decided to do something about it. I commend this man for what he's trying to do and will gladly support him all the way.

Magna Carta Man - John Harris

On the 22nd day of March 2008 I personally went to Buckingham Palace to serve an Affidavit on Her Majesty the Queen. My Oath, (which has been signed and sealed by a solicitor) states quite clearly, that I now give Her Majesty 40 days to dismiss the traitors that reside in the Parliament of this country.

I, John James Harris now declare my right under Common Law of England to Withdraw And Withhold all allegiance & obedience to the Person and Crown of Our Sovereign Lady, Elizabeth the Queen, and those who falsely claim to speak &/or to act in Her Name, and by such action, I will remove myself entirely from the authority of those Evil Persons who now seek to abuse & misuse me in the name of Elizabeth, the Queen and in absolute violation of the Common Law of the People to which I belong.

I hereby place on record of all persons that after said 40 days have expired, being the 1st day of May 2008 and the corrections I seek have not been made, by way of the dismissal of the Traitors in the House of Commons, then I John James Harris, will enter into Lawful rebellion under article 61 of Magna Carta 1215 and therefore will become a Freeman of England within the Freedom of Common Law.

I will then declare myself free from all chastisement, Laws, taxes accorded to the state and any obligations there unto, by way of second and final Lawful Affidavit signed, sealed and served.

Full article www.ukcolumn.org...

Unfortunately I very much doubt the queen will do anything. The royal family are just as corrupt and useless as our government. Bring on the revolution.

reply to post by kindred


If enough of us follow suit we will be able to reclaim our country from the corrupt pr**ks who've stolen it from us by use of the technical formalities that govern election and law. I'm weighing up the pro's and con's of following suit; who knows, I might be at Buckingham Palace tomorrow (I'll be the one sporting a miniature rubber pitchfork - it's got a sexy black handle and red-hot prongs).

Not sure, this may have been mentioned in this thread before - the Lisbon treaty is not due for ratification by the U.K until sometime between the end of May and the end of June. So far, GB only signed an agreement TO ratification not an agreement OF ratification.

Edit:

Having now read the full item, I will not be following John James Harris's lead. The process being invoked re-places the monarch (Queen) as the ultimate head and absolute governor of the British person invoking the process i.e it places the Crown above elected government. Were it to re-establish the balance between the individual and the elected government, its representatives and the established means of maintaining order throughout the kingdom to the point of elected, conditional, mutual co-operation and benefit then I would, without question, follow John James Harris's lead.

[edit on 16/404/0808 by Rapacity]

Originally posted by dave420
It's a step in the right direction. This ages-old "scared of the people in the cave next door" mindset people still cling on to is nothing but a vestige of our lives as primitive, society-less apes. People need to work together to progress, and that's what this Treaty of Lisbon, and indeed the EU, are doing for Europe. It's no co-incidence that Europe's prosperity went through the roof after the creation of the EU.

I know we live on a little Island (or used to in my case), but we're as European as the French, we just don't know it

Sounds great, in theory. But the problem is that the people setting the agendas and policies that you will FORCED TO FOLLOW will not listen to you. Neither will they care.

They are the ultra-rich, the corporate masters, the bankers, the greedy eyes which desire world domination and control.

Your voice, your concerns and your dreams will fade to black against their power.

They will be doing all of this for selfish reasons, throwing your population into a prison of silence, because compared to the desires of power, money, and control, what you have to say is of no significance.

Originally posted by Rapacity
Having now read the full item, I will not be following John James Harris's lead. The process being invoked re-places the monarch (Queen) as the ultimate head and absolute governor of the British person invoking the process i.e it places the Crown above elected government. Were it to re-establish the balance between the individual and the elected government, its representatives and the established means of maintaining order throughout the kingdom to the point of elected, conditional, mutual co-operation and benefit then I would, without question, follow John James Harris's lead.

The Queen is the Head of State and is already above the Elected Government. She gives Royal ascent to all Laws passed and whilst today it is seen as a mere formality, she still reserves extraordinary powers, which if she feels like it, can be used to rid ourselves of this corrupt system.

In the last election, Labour polled 37% of the popular vote, but holds a 198 seat Majority in parliament, due partly to them re-jigging constituent boundaries and partly due to the voting system we use not being made more representative (one of dozens of Labour election manifesto promise broken)

All this man is doing is using existing Law in order to try and facilitate change. There is no point trying to change the system from without, as that will likely end in your imprisonment or worse.

The Monarch, in our country, is the only person we can turn to if our Parliament is corrupted.

She needs to grow a set (like the King of Thailand) and throw the buggers out. The Army pledges allegiance to her, not the PM, so she could in theory turf them out tomorrow. She would only ever do that though if there was public support and at present, everyone is too apathetic about the state of the country that no one would even notice if the Army arrested Brown.

And to anyone who thinks it unlikely the Army would do such a thing, in 1974, we came extraordinarily close to a Military coup where they would have installed Lord Mountbatten (later assassinated, by the "IRA" apparently) as interim PM whilst the mess was sorted out.

On the BBC television programme The Plot Against Harold Wilson, broadcast on March 16, 2006 on BBC2, it was claimed there were threats of a coup d'état. Wilson told two BBC journalists, Roger Courtiour and Barrie Penrose, that he feared he was being undermined by MI5.

The first time was in the late 1960s after the Wilson Government devalued the pound sterling but the threat faded after Conservative leader Edward Heath won the election of 1970. However after a coal miners strike Heath decided to hold an election to renew his mandate to govern in February 1974 but lost narrowly to Wilson.

There was again talk of a military coup, with rumours of Lord Mountbatten as head of an interregnal administration after Wilson had been deposed.

In 1974 the Army occupied Heathrow Airport on the grounds of training for possible IRA terrorist action there, however Baroness Falkender (an intimate friend of Wilson) claimed that it was ordered as a practice-run for a military takeover.

reply to post by stumason


Thank you for making those points. I understand the monarch's position relative to the government and populace. I don't like it but then the alternative could be worse and, evidently, if it is modeled as currently displayed, would be worse. John Harris may be doing only as he can in order to work within the system to oust the current government but surely there must be another employable method that would place the people as those to whom governments are accountable.

John Harris's affidavit was presented some time ago, does anyone know his progress?

He's probably been arrested under the terrorist act.

Here's a new video about the EU that's just been posted on Google video. I'll shall watch later when I have time.

End of Nations - EU Takeover & the Lisbon Treaty Video......

video.google.com...

After reading up on the Magna Carta, it would seem he has no legal grounds for this at all.

Most of the Laws introduced by the MC are now either repealed or superseded by subsequent Acts of Parliament. Even the later revision, in 1297 I believe, does not contain the clause (61) of which he speaks. It ceased to be a relevant legal document in British Law during the 16th century. Yes, it might form the basis of later Laws, but it has no Legal clout today.

All he can hope for is the Queen to acknowledge his letter. That's about it.

As for what recourse we can have to remove Parliament, I do not believe that there is such an avenue to follow, bar Civil Disobedience/Revolution, aside from the obvious legal avenues, such as during an election.

Welcome to the kingdom of the antichrist. I'm hardly surprised that the coup takes place via a bunch of morally challenged unelected bureaucrats. At least you can be comforted that the Bible prophesied the re-emergence of the Roman empire some 2000 years ago. All that's left now is to start killing christians. You've get plenty of Muslims around to help get that process started.

I think a massive change has to happen with government. If we could ditch this ridiculous governing-by-proxy arrangement we currently have, and had actual governing by the people, we'd be in a much better position to steer ourselves towards our deserved destination, not whatever some selfish asshats want for themselves.

Currently we elect people we trust will act on our behalf, or as close to as possible. That sounds great, but politicians can never represent their constituency as accurately as something as important as government requires.

If we could have some sort of a system where education was paramount - where the general population would be educated about what's going on in the world, things that are affecting or will affect the population, etc. then it would make far more sense to actually ask the people about what they want. These days, through technology, we can do the mass-polling part (contrary to the fine demonstrations the US gives us every election). Now, obviously someone will need to come up with acts/laws/motions that will drive the country, and I think it'd be a good idea for them to come from a seperate entity, say academics. They get their ideas together, and put them to the people for rational debate and analysis, as we do with science. The people, now educated in what's actually going on, vote on them. That would mean there are no politicians, no-one able to pervert the will of the people. The only problem would be to maintain the education of the people. Would it be too much to ask for people to spend an hour every week or so learning this stuff?

So, to recap (if anyone's still reading):

Anyone can come up with proposed legislation (including academics, think-tanks, lone nuts in clock-towers, etc.). This will be debated and analysed by anyone and everyone who cares about it (the public, academics, the same guy in the clock-tower, etc.), with the public being involved in the arguments and the outcome, so they know the story.

Then, the public gets to vote on it, with direct democracy, over the net. The outcome then determines whether the legislation is passed or not.

As I said, the problem here would be educating the masses, and making folks care enough to spend a small amount of time catching up. The benefits would be no partisanship (as there are no parties), and far less chance of the outcome being perverted.

The education thing is key as unless people know what they're voting for, their vote is meaningless.

Sorry for rambling so much - this is something that really gets me annoyed.


[edit on 22/4/08 by dave420]

Despotism in the European Parliament

So much for democracy.

blogs.telegraph.co.uk...

A New development about the Lisbon treaty has occurred - the High Court in London has given one Mr Wheeler permission to take legal action against Gordon Brown. See my thread.

John James Harris has now declared his status as a Freeman. See his second affidavit here.

I wonder what will happen next?

[edit on 7/5/08 by Rapacity]

Thanks Rapacity. Interesting - I'm surprised this hasn't been giving the media attention it deserves, as I've not seen this mentioned whatsoever in any of the Newspapers. Everyone in the UK should come out and denounce the authority of Gordon Brown and New labour and declare themselves iindependent.

reply to post by kindred


He did receive a response albeit not from the Queen. Mr Wheeler has taken exception to the response he received due to the shown lack of comprehension of his affidavits (1 and 2) plus he has inferred of the response a disturbing yet humorous conclusion: "..Her Majesty is now enduring imprisonment..."

Have a read.

The abolition of Britain
by The Reform Treaty
Passed with a 138 majority
MPs voted by 362 - 224 for the Reform Treaty in its Second Reading on Monday 21st January. This sixth and final treaty, now renamed the Lisbon Treaty, formally replaces Britain with the European Union on 1st January 2009. This is a year before the deadline set by the Chancellor of Germany, Angela Merkel.
The Treaty will abolish the British Constitution, and therefore the nations of Britain and England, sweeping away our Westminster Parliament, and giving the EU the power to close it.
The Treaty sets up an unelected three tier politburo executive in Brussels with absolute power, a dictatorship on the soviet model. The EU parliament has no power and is a sham.

This sixth treaty is the fastest moving and most secret the EU has drafted; opposition to and recognition of the EU as a police state is growing, and they know speed is vital.

Once the Queen has signed the sixth and final EU Treaty in June, the very much
alive EU Constitution makes it clear the EU will abolish the nations of Britain and
England (and our Lib, Lab and Con parties, Reform Treaty clause 8A-4).
The EU is illegal under British law. Four Prime Ministers and the Queen have
committed five acts of Treason by signing five EU treaties which will abolish our
nation and replace it with the EU; they had to secretly repeal two of the laws of
treason in the 1998 Crime and Disorder Act (s36.3) to escape prosecution.

German Chancellor Angela Merkel ensured our government signed the “Reform
Treaty;” which will abolish the British Constitution and enforce the EU’s from 1st
January 2009. The EU treaties don’t allow for a British General Election, which isn't
due until 5th May 2010, so it is unlikely another will be permitted. You will by then
be imprisoned inside the EU police state, where you will be ruled by unelected EU
dictators, who will control the nuclear weapons of what used to be Britain and
France.

British common law mainly replaced by EU corpus Juris by 1992. Government is now above the law.

Police Shoot to Kill policy now in force; illegal under British common law, OK under EU corpus juris.


The EU has the laws of a police state - enforced after the Reform Treaty, 1st January 2009.

Unelected EU dictators will control the nuclear weapons of former nations of Britain and France.

The EU 's six treaties will compel us to hand over all our armed forces to the EU.

Our armed forces and police have been told they will swear a new oath to the EU, or be fired.

The EU’s Constitutional treaties replace the British Constitution on 1st January 2009).

The EU treaties will close our Westminster Parliament when its 5 years expire on 5th May 2010.


The EU's main subversive organisation in Britain, Common Purpose, was run from the ODPM.
. The EU's Common Purpose has trained 25,000 local leaders for "the post democratic era"
Common Purpose has been inside the NHS for 20 years, controls it, and has wrecked it.
Common Purpose has 400 staff inside the BBC censoring out anti-EU news and and current affairs.
Common Purpose has staff in hundreds of local newspapers censoring out anti-EU news
Common Purpose is transferring power from councillors to the unelected council executives.
eutruth.org.uk...

Common Purpose Government Infiltrators

video.google.com...


i suggest you watch Taking liberties

www.youtube.com...


Let the People Decide their own Future - Nigel Farage MEP

www.youtube.com...

I suggest your read Treason at Maastricht (with Norris McWhirter),


Rodney Atkinson

Today the 800-year-old British constitution has been fatally undermined and the British Parliament has, against the wishes of the true “sovereigns” the voters, delegated the government of Britain to others. The British courts no longer decide or interpret our law, the British people have lost their exclusively British passport (the one document which has in the past proved conclusive in the determination of treasonable conduct) and they have become “citizens” of a so called “European Union”, with duties towards and taxable by that supranational power.