How to have some fun with the IRS

I tried a little experiment a while back and this is the response I received from the official IRS website via email, I recently tried again this week, I will post those email responses below (or above?)...

From: "IRS Help Desk" Add to Address Book Add Mobile Alert

To: [email protected]
Subject: RE: Comment from Web Site sent to [email protected] (TICKED NUMBER BLANKED)
Date: Mon, 1 Oct 2007 09:47:37 -0400


Please use the ticket number located in the subject line of this email in any correspondence with the IRS.


SUBJECT: Comment from Web Site sent to [email protected]

Dear [email protected] ,

Thank you for contacting the IRS Web Site Help Desk.

The purpose of the IRS Web Site Help Desk is to assist Web site visitors in the navigation of www.irs.gov and to troubleshoot technical issues regarding the Web site.

We apologize, but we are unable to provide information or answer any inquiries related to your tax return, your account, or the application of tax law to your specific situation.

We can help you with this matter at our toll-free tax assistance line Monday - Friday, 7:00 a.m. - 10:00 p.m. your local time (AK & HI follow Pacific Time) at:

Individual Tax Questions: 1-800-829-1040
Business Tax Questions: 1-800-829-4933
TTY/TDD: 1-800-829-4059

For assistance outside the U.S., call 215-516-2000 (not a toll-free call) Monday - Friday, 6:00 a.m. - 11:00 pm Eastern Time.

We appreciate your visit to our site and invite you to visit us for your future tax needs.

Sincerely,
The IRS Web Site Help Desk

---------------Original Message---------------

[email protected]

Begin Comment Text --------------------
Could I please get the link to the full terms and definitions used by the IRS please, I am unable to find this anywhere. Thank you.
End Comment Text ---------------------

From: "IRS Help Desk" Add to Address Book Add Mobile Alert

To: [email protected]

Subject: RE: Help on finding terms (TICKET NUMBER BLANKED)
Date: Mon, 25 Feb 2008 20:27:17 -0500


Please use the ticket number located in the subject line of this email in any correspondence with the IRS.


SUBJECT: Help on finding terms

Dear [email protected] ,

Thank you for contacting the IRS Web Site Help Desk.

The purpose of the IRS Web Site Help Desk is to assist Web site visitors in the navigation of www.irs.gov and to troubleshoot technical issues regarding the Web site.

We apologize, but we are unable to provide information or answer any inquiries related to your tax return, your account, or the application of tax law to your specific situation.

We can help you with this matter at our toll-free tax assistance line Monday - Friday, 7:00 a.m. - 10:00 p.m. your local time (AK & HI follow Pacific Time) at:

Individual Tax Questions: 1-800-829-1040
Business Tax Questions: 1-800-829-4933
TTY/TDD: 1-800-829-4059

For assistance outside the U.S., call 215-516-2000 (not a toll-free call) Monday - Friday, 6:00 a.m. - 11:00 pm Eastern Time.

We appreciate your visit to our site and invite you to visit us for your future tax needs.

Sincerely,
The IRS Web Site Help Desk


---------------Original Message---------------

From: [email protected]

Subject: Help on finding terms

Hello,

Could you please direct me to the link/URL on the official IRS website that defines such important terms as "Employee" and other relational and geographical terms such as "State", "States", "United States", "Wages" and "American Employer", etc. I have made several searches though all I can find is a very small glossary of terms (most with incomplete or abbreviated definitions) located here:
www.irs.gov...

Thank you for any assistance.

This was my final email response:

From: "IRS Help Desk" Add to Address BookAdd to Address Book Add Mobile Alert
To: [email protected]
Subject: RE: Help on finding terms (TICKET NUMBER BLANKED)
Date: Tue, 26 Feb 2008 20:46:51 -0500


Please use the ticket number located in the subject line of this email in any correspondence with the IRS.


SUBJECT: Help on finding terms

Dear [email protected] ,

Thank you for contacting the IRS Web Site Help Desk.

We apologize that you are experiencing trouble with some area(s) of our Web Site.

We are aware of the problems accessing this section of the IRS website, understanding taxes, and we hope to have this error corrected soon. Please attempt to use this application at a later time.

We appreciate your visit to our site and invite you to visit us for your future tax needs.

Sincerely,
The IRS Web Site Help Desk


---------------Original Message---------------

From: [email protected]

Subject: RE: Help on finding terms (TICKED NUMBER BLANKED)

Right this is the purpose of the IRS website, as stated on the site itself:

Contact the IRS.gov Web Site Help Desk If you need help finding something on the site , understanding our different file formats, printing files you've downloaded, installing or using the tax products CD-ROM, or any similar technical problem, here is the place to seek assistance.
www.irs.gov...=97185,00.html Help Desk

Think of our Help Desk as a first aid station for technical questions about the IRS Web Site. I f you need help getting around the site or assistance retrieving files and forms, we have folks who'll give you a hand.

As stated prior:
"We apologize, but we are unable to provide information or answer any inquiries related to your tax return, your account, or the application of tax law to your specific situation."

I am not requesting such provisions, merely where I can locate the aforementioned definitions at, being that they are important terms used within the code and I would like to know where I might locate them so that
I can come to understand how they apply to the code, as used within the code itself. i.e. the term "Gross income" is searchable within the glossy of terms posted on the IRS website, so please assist me with locating where I could find the following terms:
"Employee"
"Employer"
"Corporation/American Corporation"
"American Employer"
"Trade or Business"
"State"
"States"
"United States"
"Wages"

If you are still adamant that you are not able to assist me then might I know why these terms have been left out of the IRS websites glossary all together or is this an admission of guilt that terms I am seeking to learn about have to do with as stated the Help Desks reply to my response:

"... or the application of tax law to your specific situation. "

Meanwhile, the listed terms within the IRS glossary such as:
"Gross income" and "Earned income" do not have any actual bearing on determining ones tax liabilities (only a division of taxable classes for those whom are actually liable for income taxes)?

Again thank you for your assistance.

Notice how they consistently and totally avoid my questions and instead type some canned response instead that has nothing to do with the questions I am asking.


Try it yourself...

The actual IRS (so called) Help Desk page:
www.irs.gov...=97185,00.html

...And the IRS (so called) Glossary page, that by the way includes butchered versions of the actual few terms that are listed:
www.irs.gov...

Here is the actual IRS Index page, which probably holds the record for being the smallest index page in all of the government websites:
www.irs.gov...

Last week I also called the IRS to ask a few questions regarding authority to "withhold" wages, they confirmed what I have come to know that the only authority to withhold is stated within section 3402.


TITLE 26 > Subtitle C > CHAPTER 24 > § 3402
§ 3402. Income tax collected at source

(a) Requirement of withholding
(1) In general
Except as otherwise provided in this section, every employer making payment of wages shall deduct and withhold upon such wages a tax determined in accordance with tables or computational procedures prescribed by the Secretary. Any tables or procedures prescribed under this paragraph shall—
(A) apply with respect to the amount of wages paid during such periods as the Secretary may prescribe, and
( be in such form, and provide for such amounts to be deducted and withheld, as the Secretary determines to be most appropriate to carry out the purposes of this chapter and to reflect the provisions of chapter 1 applicable to such periods.
(2) Amount of wages
For purposes of applying tables or procedures prescribed under paragraph (1), the term “the amount of wages” means the amount by which the wages exceed the number of withholding exemptions claimed multiplied by the amount of one such exemption. The amount of each withholding exemption shall be equal to the amount of one personal exemption provided in section 151 (b), prorated to the payroll period. The maximum number of withholding exemptions permitted shall be calculated in accordance with regulations prescribed by the Secretary under this section, taking into account any reduction in withholding to which an employee is entitled under this section.

www.law.cornell.edu...

Though when I asked her about my obligation to submit to withholdings as an employee, where could I find that section at, being that there is one in Chapter III for nonresident aliens and foreign corporations, there should be one for me, she was not able to give me an answer.

So then I proceeded to ask her for the definitions of Wages and Employee as used within this section (3402), she only kept stating that she did not want to get into a debate with me, I advised her I am not wanting to debate either, I would just like to know who this section actually applied to, she would not assist me with my request.

So then I just verified this was the only section in Title 26 that deals with withholds in regards to a U.S. Citizen living within the USA and for an American Employer, she confirmed that (at least).

I also asked where I could find the Withholding Exemption Certificate described in section 3402, she advised me that was the W-4... I did some more research and it appears that it is actually a W-4E, though they do not seem to issue these anymore, the only one I located was on a website that had a copy of one from 1977.

Either way it is odd that the title of the W-4 does not mention this, it is entitle only as: Employee's Withholding Allowance Certificate; if this is in fact a dual purpose form should it not be entitled as such?

Though while looking into this I found something else out that appears to be another smoking gun:

IRS Pub 6209: lists all form of the W-4 as a class 5 tax, which is a Estate and Gift Tax, while the Income Tax is a class 2 tax and withholding and social security are class 1 taxes.

Here is a copy of this IRS manual I placed on my site (read 2-2 and 4-2):

defendindependence.org...

I am not entirely sure, but this does seem suspect, why is this listed this way unless there is something to it that is being covered up?

Our tax code has evolved to be designed to run you around in circles, also to pull the wool over your eyes. Unfortunately so is our government and fiscal policies this is the problem that needs immediate attention. The law is set up so no one can easily decifer the specifics of it yet ignorance of the law is no excuse!