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A conspiracy may be a continuing one; actors may drop out, and others drop in; the details of operation may change from time to time; the members need not know each other or the part played by others; a member need not know all the details of the plan or the operations; he must, however, know the purpose of the conspiracy and agree to become a party to a plan to effectuate that purpose. Craig v. U. S., C.C.A.Cal., 81 F.2d 816, 822.
"Thomas Jefferson wanted to unite the two streams of liberalism, the English and the French schools of thought. His goal was to create a government that would provide both security and opportunity for the individual. An active press was essential as a way of educating the population. In order to be able to work freely, the press must be free from control by the state. Jefferson was a person who himself suffered great calumnies of the press. Despite this, in his second inaugural address, he proclaimed that a government that could not stand up under criticism deserved to fall.
Jefferson said: "No experiment can be more interesting than that we are now trying, and which we trust will end in establishing the fact, that man may be governed by reason and truth. Our first object should therefore be, to leave open to him all avenues of the truth"."
QUESTION 1 - "Do you recognize a true ideological difference between liberalism and conservatism or do you think this ideological divide is an illusion of some sort, or maybe just a great deal of confusion and misunderstanding advanced by such conspirators as is proposed, or something else?"
Question 2 - Does membership in certain societies automatically include one in a conspiracy to undermine democracy?
"He proposed instead a “well-balanced public-private partnership” that involved an increased role for national governments in ICANN, including
having several voting members of ICANN’s Board selected by national
governments. The president also proposed changes that would eliminate
global elections of at-large Board members by the Internet community,
reduce the number of Board members selected by ICANN’s supporting
organizations, and have about a third of the board members selected
through a nominating committee composed of Board members and others
selected by the Board. He also proposed that ICANN’s funding sources be
broadened to include national governments, as well as entities that had
agreements with ICANN or received services from ICANN."
"I would say that both Clinton and Carter put the interests of the average person above the interests of the corporation. "
"As you know, the U.S. government supported the development of
the domain name system and, in 1997, the President charged the
Department of Commerce with transitioning it to private management."
" You can fool some of the people all of the time, and all of the people some of the time, but you can not fool all of the people all of the time."
Abraham Lincoln, (attributed)
16th president of US (1809 - 1865)
"I must again restate that just because corporations and the media at times work to undermine our democracy does not mean that our political parties are co-conspirators in these actions. The people who form corporations and other organizations do have rights afforded by our constitution. Balancing the rights of individuals when the rights of one come into conflict with another is not a easy thing to do, especially when it concerns the rights of organizations, and this is the very reason we have competing ideologies that created our political parties in the first place."
"It is interesting stuff, but, the political reality of the U.S. is that a majority of people in the U.S. support our nations activities overseas in the protection of our national interests abroad, and while, if they were fully informed of what exactly this involves, they might not be so supportive, it is also arguable that most do not want to know about all these activities, and prefer to be in the dark."
(Illusionsaregrander) bogged down a bit in semantics as far as defining democracy, but he was arguing with himself at the time, so it didn't really hurt him. When his opponent showed up, he was more on message and did a good job.
Poet1b really blew himself out of the water by contradicting his argument that secrecy is required, but absent, by saying that Americans might not be so supportive of our actions abroad if they were informed.
Poet's secrecy angle just wasn't that compelling, and although I didn't necessarily agree with everything Illusions presented politically, he definately defended his side of the debate more effectively.
Originally posted by poet1b
I think Illusionsaregrander made some very good points, in his last couple of points he began to attempt to tie the political parties to laws that have been written which suggests that our political parties might be involved in some conspiracy, but I thought I did a very good job of showing the logic for allowing corporations to maintain secrecy and to have the rights of the shareholders extended to the corporations, which were the specific points he made.