Anti Depressants, SSRI's, Suicides, Rash of Recent Killings

reply to post by WEOPPOSEDECEPTION


So if you weren't depressed and took these medicines(as many people do), you'd actually end up becoming depressed and dependent upon the medicine's?(should I even call them medicine?)

For people who are actually depressed and lacking serotonin production, are these SSRI's only temporary relief, meaning they'd have to take them forever? Or can these SSRI's actually help get the brain to start producing serotonin on it's own again, offering an actual cure to these people's problems that won't leave them forever dependent on drugs?

reply to post by WEOPPOSEDECEPTION


You know about the receptors??

(You know this stuff!)

The SSRI's (selective serotonin reuptake inhibitors such as zoloft, paxil?, as opposed to the non-selective type like wellbutrin) do this thing where they prevent the "re-uptake" of serotonin, thus increasing the amount of naturally occuring serotnin available for neurotransmission.

The nonselective types are scary because they'll also make norepinephrine more available in the brain too (norepinephrine is also known as noradrenaline which becomes "adrenaline" which equals "koo-koo" "Koo-koo!" )

Holy crap, you guys are making me remember this stuff... I have to stop now!

It seems to work and help a lot of people, but you have to be careful with it. I think that's where it goes wrong.

I think some people respond better to the non-selective type, and some better to the selective type.

Drugs like these do really help some people get out of their beds and go to therepy. They're not perfect though.


[edit on 16-2-2008 by Electro38]

Originally posted by ThePiemaker
reply to post by WEOPPOSEDECEPTION

 

So if you weren't depressed and took these medicines(as many people do), you'd actually end up becoming depressed and dependent upon the medicine's?(should I even call them medicine?)

For people who are actually depressed and lacking serotonin production, are these SSRI's only temporary relief, meaning they'd have to take them forever? Or can these SSRI's actually help get the brain to start producing serotonin on it's own again, offering an actual cure to these people's problems that won't leave them forever dependent on drugs?

The drugs help to increase the amount of a naturally occuring neurotransmitter called serotonin, by slowing down (or inhibiting) the re-uptake process. The reuptake process elimintates the effect of serotonin on brain receptors.

If you inhibit (or "stop") this "re-uptake" process you can make the serotonin inside of someone's brian more abundant, and able to do it's neurotransmitting better, which usualy equals feeling better.

I don't really know about it's effects on a non-depressed person.

All "medicine" are like this. None are perfect. (they're the best we can do).

I'm not saying they're perfect, or right for some people. But, the invention of these drugs meant the difference between being locked up in some mental ward and being able to get out of bed and talk to a therepist.

These drugs are what caused the closing of many mental hospitals. It meant that now, people could function on some level and be treated while living at home rather than locked up or suicidal.

When these drugs were invented, giant mental hospitals started closing.

It meant great hope for people, as opposed to being lobotomized or shocked every day.

Not everything is a conspiracy or devised to harm us. Some things were really made to help us. Some things were great testaments to humanity, as I believe some drugs were.



[edit on 16-2-2008 by Electro38]

reply to post by stellawayten


Ok, I am on Prozac, been on it for years to help me with my depression, anxiety, and social anxiety. I was very suicidal before I started taking them and they helped me a lot and talking to a counselor. I could go outside again without panicking, and I could go to crowded places and not freak out when someone got close to me. About 3-4 years ago my insurance ran out, and I couldn't pay the $90 for my meds so I started seeing Human Resources through the city. Big mistake... they didn't get Prozac so they put me on Seroquel... I walked around like a zombie, everything was in slow motion, and my personality changed drastically. I was not myself. Next thing I know is I ended up in 1k cuz I tried to kill myself(not even realizing what I was doing til I saw the blood...) They put me on Remeron after that, and I just went further downhill... mood swings galore. I even pushed my ex-boyfriend down and kicked him somewhere you don't kick a man... for no reason.(we stayed friends after we broke up...) If it wasn't for my friend(who is now my SO of 3 years) I wouldn't have made it through. He's got this way of just reaching me... anyway... I said screw it and went back to my old doctor. He gave me samples of Prozac and got me on a program through Lilly, and took me pro bono as much as he could. I have been off the meds but I would do fine for a few months then I would just crash. Prozac helps keep me balanced... one of my docs said I was mildly bi-polar, but I don't buy that cuz I have family that is bi-polar and they are worse than I am. Anyway... I just thought I'd share my story with you all... and taking a vitamin supplement with the prozac helps with energy levels, etc. My OBGYN told me after I gave birth to keep taking vitamins cuz they do help.

I feel sometimes we need simple answers for complicated issues...something to blame when we don't understand mindless actions.
I've seen people benefit immensely from antidepressants (actually getting their life back), other people having no effect at all, and other people having extreme secondary effects (for which they have to stop taking the drug).

I always wonder why, if these drugs are available everywhere (worldwide), there aren't mass killings everywhere. In my opinion, it's more complicated than taking a drug...maybe having access to semi-automatic weapons?

Another thing that troubles me is the love/hate relationship many people have with medicine. Medicine is part of science, which means that it is dynamic, always moving and understanding new things. Even though some treatments are empiric, they do work...but alas, medicine hasn't all the answers and some people can't seem to get over that.

Have a great day people.

reply to post by stellawayten


My fiance takes cymbalta and has no problems at all with it. However taking lexapro made her flip out pretty easily. I would imagine it depends on the person. Of course ideally most problems should be treated with therapy, and only go to the AD drugs when there is a legitimate chemical imbalance in the brain. I think part of the problem is that the doctors that prescribe these medications don't follow up with the patients, to make sure there are no significant side effects.

reply to post by MacSen191


Amen. You found the medicine that helped you.

I think (if I remember correctly) that prozac is also a "selective" serotonin reuptake inhibitor (as opposed to the non-selective type).

Nice to hear something GOOD happened!

Thanks.





[edit on 16-2-2008 by Electro38]

Originally posted by matiascs
In my opinion, it's more complicated than taking a drug...maybe having access to semi-automatic weapons?

Even that is simplifying things. It's not like these things are new, people running amok. Amok. That word, it comes from the Malay language -- mengamok (to run amok). Back during the final days of The Malacca Sultanate (sometime in the 16th century) quite a number of people ran amok, wielding machetes and striking down random peasants. Apparently it had something to do with people going 'SNAP' and mad because of the rule of the despot Sultan Mahmud Shah.

Perhaps it's the same thing today, only with updated weapons.

[edit on 16-2-2008 by Beachcoma]

reply to post by matiascs


You got it man. Lets get things in perspective:

It's not that the shooter in IL (or others) were taking meds that is the point, the point is they had "MENTAL ILLNESS".

MENTAL ILLNESS is what caused them to go nuts and kill people. If these meds had not been invented they would have probably done something really nuts much earlier in their lives.




[edit on 16-2-2008 by Electro38]

reply to post by Beachcoma


Yes. There have always been people suffering from mental illness who have done haneous things, there will always be people doing that.

Do we hear more about it because there are more people on the earth? Is it simple statistics? Or an epidemic?




[edit on 16-2-2008 by Electro38]

Well, back during the Malacca days, people went off to the deep end because the Sultan basically ran the state into the ground. It was a prosperous nation until Mahmud took charge. According to local historians, the number of people that went amok increased towards the final days of Malacca, before the downfall and the Portuguese Invasion.

I'm seeing the parallels... downfall, loss of status as the best, authoritarianism, stress, loss of hope. Statistics isn't really the issue. The main issue I have consistently stated throughout the thread is a problem festering within society. I know it's something people don't want to hear, but just think deeply about it for a second.

reply to post by Beachcoma


I hear what you're saying. "Societal, or economical/polical issues or pressures" could cause people to go nuts?

I agree, that can happen and does.

The USA went through the great depression, and then, almost right after that they had to deal with WWII.

Those were some "hardy" people that lived during those times. They could really tough it out!

Could we do that today?





[edit on 16-2-2008 by Electro38]

Originally posted by Electro38
The USA went through the great depression, and then, almost right after that they had to deal with WWII.

Those were some "hardy" people that lived during those times. They could really tough it out!

The fundamental difference back then was society was more tightly-knit. People had support from their families and their communities. Plus the government was apparently less oppressive and more supportive of the people. I don't know if anyone had a psychotic episode back then, but chances are there might have been though it wasn't reported. Unlike today, back then news was more localized.

Can people meet the challenges today as they did back then? I don't know. But I do know there isn't an easy fix. And any solution would require the whole society to be involved. Bring back family values, at the very least. If people had a support network, they're less likely to lash out at the world when things look hopeless.

[edit on 16-2-2008 by Beachcoma]

Twenty years ago you never even heard the term bipolar. Recently I was working in a hospital with a psych unit and I would swear every single patient was diagnosed bipolar. What is up with that?

reply to post by Beachcoma



True, people are more isolated today. There's not a lot of "family values".
I know people had psychotic episodes all through the history of man.

We're more aware of it now because of technology, TV news, the internet.

But I wonder if it's happening more frequently now. If it is, is it because there are more people on the earth now, or is it because more people are becomming ill?

Wu,

Thanks for sharing your story with us.

I have seen so many people go from normal, with a little depression, to non-functional when taking anti-depressants.

How many times has everyone heard the saying "I have to adjust my meds" or "The doctor had to change my meds"? Why? mostly because of bad side effects.

I have seen good nature individuals turn extremely aggressive, do and say things they normally would not have while on SSRI's.

I believe that other factors come into play, but these meds just seem to help push the individuals to new levels of instability.

Originally posted by wu kung
I believe that a lot of these drugs are highly dangerous.
I remember back when I was in high school and wellbutrin came out on the market and my doc put me on it for depression.
It had the complete opposite effect of what it was supposed to.
I became violent and easily angered.
It was really weird, because while I was on the stuff, I didn't think that my behavior was bad.
It just seemed to come naturally.
Then a friend of mine pointed out the difference in my attitude since taking the drug, and I freaked out and stopped taking it.
Eventually I went back to my normal self and in retrospect, I realized how dangerous that stuff was.

I just thought I'd share my experience with you all in the hopes that it might help someone someday.

(oh, consequently, you might want to check out my sleep driving thread because it relates to this topic. www.belowtopsecret.com...)

Originally posted by Electro38
But I wonder if it's happening more frequently now. If it is, is it because there are more people on the earth now, or is it because more people are becomming ill?

The worse off society becomes -- angry, oppressed and individualistic -- the higher the incidence, in my opinion. If it's just angry and oppressed, but the community is more tight-knit, a different phenomena will happen -- riots. Which is kind of like the same thing, except it's a group effort.

reply to post by WEOPPOSEDECEPTION

Twenty years ago you never even heard the term bipolar. Recently I was working in a hospital with a psych unit and I would swear every single patient was diagnosed bipolar. What is up with that?

Well, that's because the term "bi polar" used to be called "manic depression", or simply "mania".

They changed the name, but they are the same thing.




[edit on 16-2-2008 by Electro38]

Originally posted by Realtruth
I believe that other factors come into play, but these meds just seem to help push the individuals to new levels of instability.

The meds just make it easier for people to snap. Withdrawal effects come to mind.

Here is a thread of mine I posted awhile back in regards to a young child dying of prescription meds.

It didn't have to happen and it was forced onto the family by Big Brother.

www.abovepolitics.com...

Originally posted by Realtruth
A sad story I wanted to post. The story makes me sad because these people are friends of our family, so we knew them personally. I don't know why I didn't post it sooner, but sometimes tragic events like these you kind of blank out.

www.ritalindeath.com...

Our fourteen-Year-old Son Matthew died on March 21, 2000. The cause was determined to be from the long-term (age 7-14) of using of Methylphenidate a medication commonly known as Ritalin.

Matthew took 10mg of Ritalin three times a day; he was taken away from us for one week for testing by the court. They said they would be doing organic testing. We found out this was never done. When he got home we were court ordered to give him 20mg three tines a day.

For the last year of his life he was taking 20mg of Ritalin three times a day.

The Certificate of Death under due to, (or because of) reads, Death caused from Long Term Use of Methylphenidate, (Ritalin). According to Dr. Ljuba Dragovic, The chief pathologist in Oakland County Michigan, upon autopsy, Matthew's heart showed clear signs of small vessel damage, the type caused by stimulant drugs like amphetamines.

The medical examiners told me that a full-grown man’s heart weighs about 350 grams and that Matthew's heart weight was about 402 grams.

[edit on 4-3-2007 by Realtruth]