Raising the Dead

This is my first thread so don't beat me up too bad. The question is this:

Are you involved in a Christian Church of any kind (tell us what kind if you are comfortable with that)and how often have you seen or had first hand experience with the Biblical raising of the dead? If your church does not raise the dead as decreed by The Master is it even a valid Christian Church at all? Is not raising the dead going against The Masters wishes and Gods?

Man. Over 50 views and no comment good or bad. I can clearly see church going Christians shaking in their shoes, but there should even be some atheistic comment.

This is indeed a topic of great fear for both the clergy and the scientist.

Shall we say I trumped the locals or is there in fact, some input that has been held back from the topic..........This is the place to discuss 'those sort of topics' relating to religion....

There is indeed a conspired fear to keep this topic down. Perhaps much deeper than anyone can imagine.

I just don't think too many people have first hand knowledge of this subject. I know of no raisings from the dead since the time of the apostles.
But Jesus told us that we would do greater things than even he had done.
But I believe that he was referring to the last generation Church which is soon to be annointed with a double dose of what was received at Pentecost. cantyousee

raising of the dead...allegory.
Its all about science, quantum physics, cloning, dna manipulation, better eating etc.
Point is there is truth, and dead can be raised but not in the exact way that people 'think' that are christians.

give it time and in our laboratories we will bring life back
What about the article on the zombie dog awhile back?

The creature was clinically dead and raised to life.

This is complex as many people (Christians) are stuck in the baby milk stage and take the allegory and parable to be the exact way that their mind says something will happen. Doesnt make sense, I know, but Im sure that the essence is in there.

Peace

dAlen

Originally posted by Illahee
If your church does not raise the dead as decreed by The Master is it even a valid Christian Church at all?

What would dead bodies be doing in a church? Are you talking about at funerals held inside churches? Or are we supposed to be walking around cemeteries calling people out of the grave? There have been many reports of such things (mostly in the East) but the skeptical argument is that they weren't really dead but only comatose, etc.

Originally posted by Illahee
This is my first thread so don't beat me up too bad. The question is this:

Are you involved in a Christian Church of any kind (tell us what kind if you are comfortable with that)and how often have you seen or had first hand experience with the Biblical raising of the dead? If your church does not raise the dead as decreed by The Master is it even a valid Christian Church at all? Is not raising the dead going against The Masters wishes and Gods?

Good Question.

I'm a Christian and i pray for healing for others. I also know that people have not been raised from the dead where i come from.
Jesus said "I only do what my father tells me". I don't think that many people who pray for healing feel that they have been told to raise the dead, well not in my experience anyway.

Some of the gifts of the spirit are healing, Faith, Miracles and discernment and for me I would have to believe that God had given me all of those gifts to do that type of prayer.

Another thing to think about is what would the public reaction be to Christians going around praying for the dead. I know the people on ATS would have a field day with that one. As not all prayers are answered anyway, it would not help the relatives of the deceased if the prayer was not answered for them.

No, I think Jesus does not want us to pray for the dead but concentrate on letting the world know about him.

Is not raising the dead going against The Masters wishes and Gods?

We as Christians do nothing except pray, it's god who does the healing and until we feel we are told to we are not going against Gods wishes.

Hope that answers your question, but of course this is just the way that i see things.

We bring people back from clinical death all the time in hospitals. Resuscitation occurs all the time. So, since Jesus said man would do even greater things than he did, can we consider this as such an act? I know you are probably talking about resurrection after a LONG period of death, but is that really stipulated anywhere? If it is please let me know.

reply to post by tacocheesey


Thats a very good answer.
I never even thought of that one.

All good responses. To be more clear I have seen or been exposed to a total of two cases. One being a first hand experience I am not at liberty to discuss. The second I will relate in a manner to protect the identities, since I do not have specific permission from those individuals.

In that second case a young pastor 21yrs old was driving through a remote rural area far from telephone and services and saw a young woman on the side of the road franticly waving and stopped to see what was wrong. She was holding a newborn that she related had stopped breathing while it was being taken to the hospital still 15 miles away. He immediately called 911 on his cell to get a response rolling, and turned his attention to the pair. The infant had been without breath or pulse for about 10 minutes at that time when he took the body in his arms laid hands, prayed and the infant began to kick and cry. He gave it back to the mother and told her he could take no credit for what he was lead to do. Police and ambulance arrived and after a quick brief he jumped back in his car and left to co pastor a sermon that evening, which was why he was in the country to begin with.

As a coincidence, he was 15 minutes late, however the power had gone off in the church and it took them about the same amount of time to locate and reset the breakers, so as he walked into the darkened hall the lights came on.

I know this young man personally and his father who is also a pastor. The one question I had for him was: What did it feel like when it happened? He said it was just as natural and normal of a feeling as anything. He related he felt used for the purpose but not the one performing the function. In addition this was not related to the church body for reasons only they know.


This is a rather unusual sect and What I was wondering about was experiences others had had on a first hand basis, or legitimate contact with those who were present and have the type of background where there is not a reason to fabricate such a story, as I related above.

I suppose for Christian it is the final frontier and the ultimate declaration of faith.

So we need to move along to the conspiracy. If your church is not performing the miracles that the Master teacher said they would then they are conspiring to steal your tithe and the most evil form of religion in existence.

It is true, isn't it? 95% of all churches are scams?

I am the resurrection and the life. He who believes in Me, though he may die, he shall live. And whoever lives and believes in Me shall never die.

Jesus could raise the dead. He also gave unto certain of his Disciples this ability.
So, Those with True Faith (Hey, you only need have the faith of a mustard seed)
That could do this are hardly surprising.
Now, as far as "The true church":

"I am the good shepherd, and know my sheep, and am known of mine....and I lay down my life for the sheep...and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd." John 10:14-16.

Thus God's one true church, His one fold, His one flock of today is not a denomination -- no matter how exalted their name, or how loudly they profess, because God's one true church is made up of people.

Examine here

Now...I will tell you a story that was related to me by my parents a long time ago.
When I was perhaps 3 years old, I suddenly became ill. I had very high fevers, and convulsions. My parents took me to the hospital many times, doctors had no idea what the cause of this was. Often, my parents would pack me in ice in the bathtub to bring my temperature down. One day I apparently went into a severe episode and stopped breathing. My parents rushed me to the hospital where they tried mightily to revive me, but failed. I was pronounced dead, and was not breathing or any other life signs. During all this my mother and father prayed for God to help and intervene. My father told me that during his prayer, he saw a vision of an evil looking man dressed entirely in black with a black "pope's hat" on except the hat had an upside down cross, and this beings eyes glowed red. This entity in the vision tried to reach out and "get me", according to my father, so he prayed very very hard and Asked The Lord to save me. When my Father stopped praying he looked at me for a moment and slowly my eyes opened and i gasped with newfound breath. According to this story I was technically dead for a period of 15-20 minutes.

Thank you for sharing that. Might I ask what branch of faith your parents were connected with at the time? Curiosity of course but I have found a disproportionate amount of miracles in certain groups where others have none or worse yet go backwards in calamity.

Originally posted by Illahee
It is true, isn't it? 95% of all churches are scams?

I can't speak for churches in America but here in the UK a vast number can't even pay their way. A lot of ministers now have to look after more than one church. Having 4 - 5 churches is quite common over here.

So, over here i would say that just the opposite is true.

reply to post by Illahee


I find churches in the USA to be pretty pathetic charades vs what they are called to be. Lots of reasons. Mostly folks are not willing to pay the price in fasting, prayer and right living.

Many reports have originated in China of raisings of the dead.

And, I don't recall the name, but I read once of a Mexican pastor . . . who would not even consider someone to be a candidate to be a pastor

UNLESS

they had already had several bonafide verified resurrections to their credit.

Wish I had links or better key words, but I don't. If you come up with some, please let me know.

imho, God has an easier time finding faith to work with, where folks are more desperately in need of Him and where there are no seminaries/cemetaries to convince them that God no longer "does THAT!"

reply to post by BO XIAN


Hey, Bo. Jack Kelly of Gracethrufaith.com has some articles about this and I think some articles on Raptureready.com as well. They mention what you and I have brought up on this thread: that most of these occurrences are taking place in the East, more specifically China. It is a sad fact that due to America's apostasy we are missing out on the gifts of the Spirit. Even more so that the accounts are being suppressed.

THANKS.

I agree.

1. folks who have seminaries/cemetaries to tell them what GOD "CAN'T" do [the very idea!] tend to experience fewer miracles and a lot fewer resurrections, if any.

2. The NWO folks and the ESTABLISHED !!!RELIGIONISTS!!! who refuse to live BY the Bible and therefore don't experience the fruits of doing things God's way . . . like to suppress stories of those who take God at His Word and find Him fulfilling His Word perisistently.

I do think, however, that as the evils of hell and global government flood the planet, God's miracles, including resurrections will multiply geometrically.

of course, Scripture speaks of satan's counterfeits during this time, too.

Thanks for the links, BTW,

Hmm I see. there is some sort of conspiracy to avoid mentioning this truly wonderful gift among all peoples and not just inside the Christian churches. I thought there was far more to the sweeping under the rug than what there appeared to be. Obviously the satanic would want to keep it mum, but how come the churches choose to do so?

For clarification there are accounts on the net of 13-15 hours after. I would also avoid lumping in the resuscitation at hospitals since they have a sort of standard time frame set based on body temp and conditions. For the purposes here we should outline an hour or more, and the active use of prayer, the laying of hands, or the other methods described in the Bible.


(Per the sheep pen response. That was good but more a selective response. The full message was based on the quote given but it was to illustrate the next line in which Jesus says: I have many sheep that are not of this fold. The story was to be clear that those disciples were not the only sheep and there were many others. Still its one I reference in that context.)

Here is a puzzle for the text scholars. How many different ways (methods) are the dead raised in the old and new testaments?

Who raised them successfully, a prophet or a student?

One of my friends emailed me a story last year that was floating around on the net about a guy in Africa, I think, that had been clinically dead for a few hours. His wife kept driving him around to different pastors trying to get someone to raise him from the dead. Finally found one, I guess and the "dead" guy is now a pastor himself.

I'll have to hunt for the link. Patience, please.

Btw, the gifts of the spirit were during the time of the apostles. Anyone other than the apostles who got the gifts of the spirit had them given to them by an apostle (by the laying on of hands). There is no mention that the gifts were transferrable by anyone other than the apostles. Prophesying could be done by anyone and was not limited to prognostication but more to "witnessing" or "testifying".

Just as in the early days of Christianity, raising the dead was needed as ultimate proof of Christ's divinity, I believe (*warning-personal opinion*) that in the last days the dead will rise since proof is once again required.

First of all I want to commend all of the posters so far. This is indeed one of the touchiest topics of all and folks are doing a great job. I had suspected right wing extremists or hard line atheists to derail or eventually get this shut down and its a credit to the community here it is still going.


I wanted to probe this a little.

Originally posted by whitewave
Btw, the gifts of the spirit were during the time of the apostles. Anyone other than the apostles who got the gifts of the spirit had them given to them by an apostle (by the laying on of hands). There is no mention that the gifts were transferrable by anyone other than the apostles.

I have a suspicion that the formal church has lead us to believe this when it is absolutely not so. We are instructed to lay hands on the sick and bless cloths and pray over them. This in and of itself is the root of the Christian Conspiracy. They have conspired for two centuries to keep this knowledge from Christians. Lets go back to the OT for a minute. God chose who he wanted and when he wanted. He presented himself to them as a fire. He instructed them to perform works in his name.

To as many as who would receive Him he gave them the power to become sons of God. I am in him, he is in me, and I am in you.

I believe the Catholic Church conspired to create the need for the building the priest, and the money buckets. It was then passed on to every splinter church that formed thereafter.

The true teaching is involving the drawing down and storing of energy. It is built up within the being and then when no more can be held it is transferred to wood or cloth for storage.

See The two descriptions:
2Kings 4:29
Mark 5:30

Matt 10:8

Do not be deceived. You will know them by their works

These examples are from Jim Rutz's book, "Megashift".

At six o'clock on an April evening in 2001, five-year old Arjun Janki Dass died in New Delhi from an accidental elecyrocution. His parents took him to a medical clinic where they worked on his body for 2 hours-without success. The doctor charged them 5,000 rupes (about $110) and told them to call a mortician.
Instead they called Rodrick at the nearby Deliverance Church. He then called upon Savitri, one of his staff members.
Savitri brought two other Christians to Arjun's home, and the five of them began praying over the dead body about 10:00pm. They prayed their hearts out for six hours. Then at 4:00am the next morning Arjun snapped back to life-no brain damage no problems.
Today, he's a normal eight-year-old kid. I met with Savitri, Arjun, and his mother, Mina, and the boy is A-OK except for a nasty scar behind his left ear where the wire hit.
Savitri is a 60-year-old widow, a Dalit ("untouchable") from the lowly Domn caste.

In the small Southern Mexico village of Chiconamiel, an epidemic of black measles swept through in 1998 and quickly killed about 40 people.
Two of the victims were teenage girls, daughters of a widow who was a fairly new Christian. By the time the girls died, there was no one left in town healthy enough to help her cary the girls' bodies to the graveyard. So the poor woman had to drag both bodies there herself.
Because of the plague, there were only two young men still strong enough to dig graves, so there was a line of 21 corpses waiting to be buried. The woman tenderly laid the bodies at the end of the line, and since it was hot, sprinkled a lot of white lime powder over the bodies as a disinfectant. Then she set off walking down the mountain.
The next morning, after eight hours of walking, she reached the town where her Christian contacts lived. But since the men were in the midst of a heavy prayer and fasting meeting, she had to wait 2 hours more to see them. By that time, they didn't think they could climb back up the hill to Chiconamiel before nightfall, so they waited til the next morning.
When they finished the uphill trek, it was evening again, and the girls' bodies were only 3 or 4 away from being buried.
The men gathered around the bodies in a circle, as the disciples did for Paul when he had been stoned and left for dead in Acts 14:19. They prayed in the authority of the Lord Jesus Christ , and they called the girls by name.
Both of the dead girls sat up!
The young men then had a good laugh as they watched the girls trying to spit the lime powder out of their mouths.

The incident I mentioned earlier was in regards to a Daniel Ekechukwu in Nigeria. There are a few miraculous stories in Rutzs' book. Good read, too.