Biofuels emissions may be 'worse than petrol'

Biofuels emissions may be 'worse than petrol'

environment.newscientist.com

The idea makes intuitive environmental sense – plants take up carbon dioxide as they grow, so biofuels should help reduce greenhouse gas emissions – but the full environmental cost of biofuels is only now becoming clear.

Extra emissions are created from the production of fertiliser needed to grow corn, for example, leading some researchers to predict that the energy released by burning ethanol is only 25% greater than that used to grow and process the fuel.

Carbon debt
The new studies examine a different part of biofuel equation, and both suggest that the emissions associated with the crops may be even worse than that.

(visit the link for the full news article)


Related News Links:
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Related AboveTopSecret.com Discussion Threads:
Biodiesel May Not Be So Green

In previous studies doubt was cast on biofuels because of tractor diesel fuels consumed in farming, and natural gas burned in making fertilizers. Plants transpire a tremendous amount of H20 a greenhouse has and even cultivated soil releases large amount of gasses. How could biofuels be a viable carbon trade off?? In this study the effect of deforestation and land clearing are taken into account. CO2 is released as a result of the clearing process and as a result:
"The saving generated by the resulting biodiesel will not cancel that out for around 300 years. In the case of peat land rainforest in Indonesia, which is being cleared to grow palm oil, the debt will take over 400 years to repay."

Another factor to consider is that as corn in the midwest is converted to biofuel, less is available for animal food which is in more and more demand for meat production. As third world countries modernize, one of the first things their people want is quality animal products. If the midwest can't produce enough corn to meet all demands then production will go to areas like Brazil where land clearing is necessary to put land into production thus resulting in increased CO2 release.

Will environmentalists in their frenzy to do something positive listen to these arguments or ignore them? Want to make a guess? Last I heard they were all on the Biofuel bandwagon!

BTW, one of my "hobies" is midwest corn production so maybe I'm an insider on this one!



environment.newscientist.com
(visit the link for the full news article)

Who ever said biofuel is a better carbon alternative is insane, its just recycling the CO2 from there air to feed plans so essentially the more that will be taken out the more will be put in when burnt.

ive been currently trying to figure out how much carbon is fixed by the stalks of corn and beans..... from what i can tell no one has even bothered but it seems to be some enormous amount thats fixed. it even seems that an acre of crop can fix more carbon then a much larger area of trees.

the thing i want to know is who thought of using an alcohol as a fuel source? BAD things will happen when you burn ethanol and Octane.

People doing any research at all on biofuels need to look up hemp.

This has nothing to do with drugs of any sort, just compare hemp with everything else they use to make fuel.

A few places to start...
-what you can get 'pound-for-pound'
-how much more you can grow in the same amount of time and in the same space
-the effects on the soil
-other uses for the leftover material

Keep in mind that commercial hemp can have less than three tenths of one percent of any illegal substance in it.

[edit on 8-2-2008 by alaskan]

reply to post by engenerQ

Hi again eng,

I believe corn to be one of the best producers of (corn)starch. Starch is what is used to produce ethanol. Soybeans and cocoanut oil is what is used most efficiently to make biodiesel.

People doing any research at all on biofuels need to look up hemp.

reply to post by alaskan


Hi AK,

Hemp and corn grow side by side and thrive under the same conditions of cultivation and fertilization. Corn starch is a lot easier to convert to ethanol. How is does hemp have an advantage in making biofuel?

Originally posted by plumranch
Soybeans and cocoanut oil is what is used most efficiently to make biodiesel.

I disagree. Algae and palm oil is better (provided the palm oil plantations are existing ones, not new ones). Both provide much much higher yields than anything else. And with algae, you don't even need fertile land. Or fertilizer for that matter.

NZ firm makes bio-diesel from sewage in world first

It is believed to be the world's first commercial production of bio-diesel from "wild" algae outside the laboratory - and the company expects to be producing at the rate of at least one million litres of the fuel each year from Blenheim by April.

To date, algae-derived fuel has only been tested under controlled conditions with specially grown algae crops, said spokesman Barrie Leay.

Aquaflow's algae, however, were derived from excess pond discharge from the Marlborough District Council's sewage treatment works. Algae take most chemicals out of sewage, but having too many of them taints the water and produces a foul smell.

From "Can algae save the world?" an exhibit at the Science Museum in London running until April 2008. Scientists are hoping the entire planet will use algae as biofuels in the future.

Science Porn: Green Ooze Controls Woman's Mind

Algae For The Win!!

reply to post by Beachcoma


There is another thread on this topic where I pretty much explained my position .

We need to use a combination of alternative fuel sources and not rely on petroleum or ethanol or hemp oil.

Algae, as beachcoma mentioned, is a great fuel source. Coupled with hemp, switchgrass, and wood pulp, living fuels will reduce our dependency on oil and certainly cut down on our pollution.

What kind of exhaust fumes come out of a car powered on vegetable oil?

I wonder.

How about one powered on petroleum from oil? Pretty great smelling stuff right?

reply to post by plumranch


Bio fuels have been reported many times to be costly, inefficient, and in one way or another polluting. Hydrogen conversion kits are going to be available for only a 2 grand, which includes delivery in some cases. That's what I'm waiting for.

biofuels are ok but there still the crutch that the world leans on. Burning anything hemp is a BAD idea hemp burns so dirty its ridiculous not to mention the whole drug issue. when a crop is also a drug you don't see any posable problems arising from that? as for algae it is fine but its lacking something known as a carbon sync, when you grow corn just for food or just for starch exc there is still quite a bit left of that plant. now all the carbon in the cellulose and the starch exc.. comes from the air so effectively your scrubbing the air while making fuel.

the reason hydrogen is such a good idea is that if you burn anything bio, gas, ethanol. the most you could ever use the energy from the system is somewhere around 6-8% while say you get a Hydrogen fuel cell that operates at such a better energy usage percent it is ridiculous.

reply to post by engenerQ

the reason hydrogen is such a good idea is that if you burn anything bio, gas, ethanol. the most you could ever use the energy from the system is somewhere around 6-8% while say you get a Hydrogen fuel cell that operates at such a better energy usage percent it is ridiculous.

Hi eng,

I haven't heard of any efficient H2 production method that would put hydrogen cars for instance into any viable consideration. What do you say?

And do you have any good references you can offer on your H fuel cell?

Did you mean carbon sink rather than sync??

ya thats the problem while biofuels are good and all there still based on tech thats out dated. whole we are replacing petro with organic based it still is burning hydrocarbons and alcohol's.

actually im following a company making a conversion kit as well as storage system thats extremely promising United Nuclear

As much as it pains me other then coppying pages from my phical chemistry books Wiki has a decent chart and article. Fuel Cell

ya i spell like a 8yo on crack, sy

reply to post by engenerQ

actually im following a company making a conversion kit as well as storage system thats extremely promising United Nuclear

Let's hear it again for Bob Lazar and his company, United Nuclear! I see the Hydrogen Generator they will offer is not available because of legal problems involving a governmental agency removing the products used by the generator from public use. (read...they don't want anyone making something that will go boom!)