Sharia law in UK is 'unavoidable'

I notice BBC have posted a new article and british politicians are distancing themselves :

news.bbc.co.uk...

I have already extensively covered my views on my previous thread so wont repeat myself here. One thing to consider; Islam is the fastest growing religion in Britain and as a Muslim they see Sharia law as perfect. If the majority of the voting public was Muslim, what would our politicians be saying then?

Originally posted by theukman
...But it comes to something when during England football matches I can't fly the flag of my own country...as it was offending somebody.

As any one of my Newfoundland compatriots would say "Well Buddy can just kiss my arse"

I'm all for cultural diversity, but not enough to scare the horses!

Originally posted by theukman
reply to post by _Phoenix_

 

I agree that it is good to have broad arizons, But it comes to something when during England football matches I can't fly the flag of my own country, The one I live in and support because I live in a council property and somebody called my local council office up to complain, and then they came around to ask me to take it down as it was offending somebody, And me being me not wanting to disclude anybody else I hung another one out the bedroom window so people could see it from the back aswell as the front.

Well that is stupid, it don't make sense to me, I would have kept the flag up too.
But let's remember there are stupid people everywhere haha.

The Archbishop seems to have his own agenda here. Is he so naive to believe this could work or was he trying to raise this as a method of increasing his own churches powers. ( as a previous poster has commented)

I for one will not stand for any such law no matter which religion it comes from.

This is a secular country. Any move towards islamic law will take us down a very dangerous road.

Laws must be based on common sense and facts, not fairytales.

Incedently I belive most muslims would not like to see the british laws by passed or 'opted out of'.

At the risk of stating the obvious - partial Sharia law, in co-existence with traditional British law is the first step towards total Sharia law, which I believe the majority of the Muslim community wish for. They may say that they just want their own people to be governed by their own laws in a way which doesn't impose upon non-Muslims in Britain, but this is just diplomacy.

For this reason, I stand fully opposed to Sharia law in Britain - be it at any degree. As Freeborn says, it merely paves the way towards chaos and serious daily conflict. History shows us that the presence of more than one major religion within a country equates to violence and hate. The more Sharia law that takes hold in Britain, the more Muslims will migrate to Britain, and in turn, the more these people will start to think of Britain as an Islamic state.

No thank you. I'll be answering the call to arms when it comes (and I hope I can look back on that statement as a figurative one rather than literal).

Britain has always been a multi-cultural society.
Just look at our history.

Britain has long been a haven for the dispossessed, the homeless and the downtrodden.
And long may it continue.
At various times throughout history Britain has stood alone, and side by side with allies, in the face of tyrants.
And long may it continue.
Britain has for years provided sanctuary for religious and political refugees for numerous races and creeds.

Britain has a long history of allowing other cultures into it's society and absorbing and evolving the best that these cultures have to offer.
That is how it should be.

The difference is now that a minority within a minority wish to be considered seperate to the rest of British society and to be allowed to judge themselves by a seperate set of laws to the rest of the host nation.
They feel that their law supercedes national law.

Any changes to British Law will be a natural process that reflects the changes within British society.
It cannot be allowed to be driven by self interest groups whose only intentions are furthering other agendas and not national interest.

[edit on 7-2-2008 by Freeborn]

reply to post by TheWalkingFox


Sorry for not replying to this earlier.

No, I was not contradicting myself, at least I don't think so.
My point is that whilst Sharia Law is immutable it still depends on which or whose interpretation of Sharia Law.
A Sunni will interpret Sharia differently to a Shi'ite.
Wahabi interpretations are different to a Sufi.

They are all equally alien to the British Judicial system and equally unwelcome.

I keep reading about what is going on in Europe with the conflicts with Muslim immigrants, and it is very alarming. The more I learn about Islam, the less I like it.

The current clash of the Western world with the Muslim world is unlike any other in history. Essentially the Muslim invasion of Europe is a passive aggressive invasion. While Westerner's are preaching tolerance, Muslims are giving it lip service as long as things keep going their way, and that is exactly how things are going. The Muslim plan is simple, keep strict control over their families, and especially their women, as this is the heart of the religion, and out breed Europeans. The cold hard fact is that this plan will work, and once Muslims start reaching a point of majority, especially with young verses old, they will end tolerance and quickly take over, and that will be the end of Western culture.

If western culture is going to survive, then Europeans, and all westerners, are going to have to start taking action to defend themselves very soon. Essentially, they need to clamp down and restrict immigration. They need to completely stop giving welfare to immigrants. They also should target and weed out the more aggressive leaders in the Muslim community pushing for a Muslim take over. Western nations need to start demanding that Muslim children attend a certain level of schooling in Western pubic schools, and pass exams teaching western principles and beliefs. Lastly, they need to provide assistance for young Muslims who seek shelter from their parents if and when they decide to break from Muslim tradition.

Western nations should not have any tolerance what so ever for Muslim parents who force their religion onto their children. Inn addition, Western nations should work to aggressively protect the children of Muslims who choose not to practice the Muslim faith. A serious effort will be needed to provide shelters away from local Muslim populations where Muslims seeking to change their religion, or escape the control of their religion are able to get away from any local Muslim population.

This is the kindest path necessary to protect our western culture from the aggressive tactics of the Muslim world. Of course, many Muslims will claim that the Muslim religion is not so intolerant or aggressive, but history clearly shows that the Muslim religion is in fact that aggressive. The current activities of Muslims in Europe, Africa, and India at this very time prove just how aggressive this cult really is.

OK going to wade in here.

If i moved to another country as an imigrant, i would accept that countries laws. To me moving to another country is like a legal contract, you accept the laws of that country. You can have whatever religion you want to believe in, a democratic country should allow that.

I believe Islam should have its own courts for certain things, just like the jewish courts. They would however still have to accept the basic laws allowing equal rights and legal representation for both parties, male or female and no corporal or capital punishments.

I understand why some people are tired of muslims but remember, the groups pushing for the removal of british flags from buildings, the stopping of alcohol consumption and other such rubbish are the extremists and not the mainstream. It's sad the fanatics are able to tar an entire culture with thier ideals.

As for britishness.

Britishness to me is a rediculous idea and yet it's appeared in this thread an awful lot. To me britishness is drinking a few beers with friends and going out for a meal. Quite often this meal will be a curry (indian), pizza (italien) or chinese (erm yeah china bit obvious that one). Basically we have very nicely put together many cultures and accepted them as our own. Britishness is a stupid idea, it oens't exist.

In fact britain is several countries so stating it as a culture is in itself rediculous. Seperated into it's own countries there aren't many traditions from my own country (england) i even stick to. I love my country but i don't see the point of having tea and cucumber sandwiches in that stereotypical english way. I celebrate St. Georges say (who was from malta i believe) simply to get drunk and i hope no muslims will mind me drinking as i live in a democracy.

The other side is that muslims don't seem to want to integrate, they want a state within a state. Again though it seems to me it's a hardcore, gaining a lot of media attention, that are wanting this.

The hardcore muslims of course are entitled to their views as we are in a democracy and i truly hope they are allowed to make their views clear. The politicians though should go with the majority vote as this is the very basis of a democracy.

I say no to sharia law.

Just my view.

Originally posted by artistoli
I am 25 years old, an artist/author/photographer and company director, and I live in the West Midlands. I for one would be prepared to take up arms and fight, even if it meant tearing the UK apart, in order to prevent Sharia law or any other Islamic ways being eshrined in UK law.

My head says that hummanity is surely beyond fairy tale religion by now, and I look around and see that most of the UK are leaving it far behind. Then I see a growing dark cloud on the horizon - Islam - and I fear it will drag us all back to the dark ages.

It may be beyond "fairy tale religion" but apparently we haven't gotten over the "nationalist drivel" phase just yet.

Islam is spreading. No one can debate that. It already has far more power in the UK than it democratically should do. Last time I checked only 2-3% of the population were Muslims... yet look at the power they already have. I firmly believe that if they get to 10% of the population they will try and introduce some Islamic law.

I'm sure somewhere is a dude named Habib who's keeping close talley and plans to release the pheromones needed to mobilize the forces because, as we all know muslims are not human but rather a hive-mind insect, right? 'Cause that's what I keep hearing!

Muslims in the UK tend to congregate in urban areas - thus distorting their true numbers and giving them a much larger voice than they deserve.

Maybe the lazy asses outside the urban areas should start voting, huh? Whining on a message board about how someone else is getting benefits because htey do more than you is kind of, oh what's hte word, stupid.

reply to post by poet1b


I love the way you created sides, Western (good) Muslim(bad), as if it is some kind of game with teams. It's not that simple.

Originally posted by poet1b

Western nations should not have any tolerance what so ever for Muslim parents who force their religion onto their children.

If you want this then you must apply it to all religions not just one. Sorry but you can't single out the islamic faith here you need to say the same for catholics, christians, hindus etc etc.

reply to post by _Phoenix_


He didn't do it. He's just parroting the same bigoted bullcrap that so inundates American media these days.

Phoenix

I didn't create sides, they have been around for centuries. Have you ever read any history? Do you pay attention to current events?

Good/bad, tolerant/intolerant, how ever you want to phrase it, this is what is going on. For a non-Muslim to live in a Muslim controlled country is to deal with considerable prejudice. These are facts, whether you are a westerner living in denial or a Muslim who only wants to confuse the issue.

1984

The Muslim religion is the only mainstream religion that I know of which forces it's beliefs upon it's children. The Catholics used to practice the same techniques, but after losing numerous wars they eventually stopped such activities.

Freedom of religion is a very critical Westerner value, and we do not tolerate religion being forced upon anyone, the real question is why are we allowing Muslims to get by with this practice. Muslim families will abandon their children if they refuse to follow the Muslim faith. In some instances, they will kill their own children for turning away from the Muslim faith. This can not be tolerated. If our two very different civilization are going to live together in peace, then Westerner's are going to have to take the necessary steps to stop Muslim immigrants from forcing their religion upon their children.

If young adult are not given the the ability to choose what religion they will follow, then our rights to freedom of religion are slowly taken away. If Muslim immigrants refuse to follow our laws, in this case freedom of religion, then they should not be allowed to live within our borders.

I would rather avoid having this occur in the country my ancestors created. It should keep as a Christian state as it was originally, rather than secularized or made into a state like Iran or some other Middle Eastern country. Just so you know what I am talking about; the Battle of Hastings was fought, led, and won by my ancestor.
My further back ancestor, Charles "The Hammer" Martel won the Battle of Tours which was supposed to have ended Islamic expansion into (Edit: Western) Europe.
Some of the Muslims who have become residents in Great Britain have made public threats against the U.K. while hiding their identities behind their scarves. I am not speaking against Islam, I am simply stating that Great Britain should not submit to a minority and should also make sure that they take proper measures to counter anything that could instate sharia law.
I'm sorry if I may offend anyone, but I really needed to get that out of me.

[edit on 7-2-2008 by spec_ops_wannabe]

reply to post by _Phoenix_


Is call brainwashing, remember that the westerners as in the US are fighting terrorism that happen to be concentrated in the middle east were we are actively involved in a war and the people happen to worship Islam.

I agree with you this is not a game at all.

reply to post by poet1b


Mate your view on muslims are based on what?
Yes some muslims may be like that, but you can't generalize like that, it's crazy.

England is lost. Nothing like allowing citizens to choose their own regressive, misogynistic 12th Century legal system.

Good news is, if it were in effect here, Hillary and Nancy would be wearing burkas, cooking, cleaning, pulling plows, getting the # kicked out of them every night by their husbands, and loving it, because divorce would mean being kicked out in the street with nothing, to be stoned to death.

Originally posted by poet1b
I keep reading about what is going on in Europe with the conflicts with Muslim immigrants, and it is very alarming. The more I learn about Islam, the less I like it.

You are just going to beat yourself to death with generalities. If all of your statements read Christian, or Jew, or Black, instead of Muslim it would be considered intolerable. I suggest you go read some Orwell and apply his considerations to your arguments.

Oh Marg? Maybe we should get our mitts offa their countries and they'd stop the terrorism. And most of the 911 cadre were Saudi. Don't see anybody taking them on.

Bigotry always has a really good argument to try and conceal it's real nature. Grow up kids, it's a big world out there, and they aren't all Christian or English speaking.

Originally posted by _Phoenix_
reply to post by theukman

 

Living in London I see the opposite of the great you say that's being taken away, I see the multicultral britain as a the Great thing, of course there are bad things that come with it, but it brings the world together, it brings all cultures, people together and we can all learn from each other, plus you get to experience all kinds of girls haha

. We are all the same, we are all humans.

I have also lived in London, in Brixton to be precise, and I've lived in Kent, and Brighton, and the USA. I've been in a long term relationship with a South African born Irish passport holder who lives in the UK, I've dated a part African American part Native American beauty when I was in the US, and I've lived with two Indian Hindu girls (flatmates - just so you don't think I'm up to anything dodgy!). I completely agree with you that people from different cultures add a lot of what is 'great' to Great Britain. That is precisely why I despise Islam.

Whereas the countless other cultures and nationalities who live in the UK seem to have their identities and still mix, it is only Islam which is intent on supressing all others. I say this knowing full well that it will draw well-intentioned flak but it is true.

To say that we should take no action now to stop the spread of Islam because 'not all Islamic people are fundamentalists' is akin to people in the 1930's saying 'we should leave the Nazis alone because not all Nazis are evil.' And yes, before you fly off the handle I have compared Nazism to Islam - I am not saying they are the same, just merely that the way people seem to be so willing to appease them seems to me to be the same.

People of all faiths, cultures and nationalities need to wake up and smell the coffee. The spineless socialists in the Labour Party have continously eroded the fabric of the UK until there really isn't much left. It is not some far-right nut jobs in the BNP who are going to loose out because of this - it is every single person, including the 'moderate' muslims.

Think about it guys; ATS is all about freedom of expression, freedom to challenge the accepted ways and thoughts, to uncover the truth. If any people should realise the calamitous horror that any increased Muslim leverage in our goverments would bring it should surely be you.

I really have no problem seeing that Islam is bad. It is quite simple. Islamic organisations constantly call for censorship. Islamic organisations promote the supression of women. Islamic organisations, in the UK at least, are frequently exposed to be fronts for less than legitimate operations, and most obvious of all - the Islamic representatives in the UK seem to have no respect for democracy. Granted this is being made worse because the Labour government, especially Brown and Smith, seem to have no concept of democracy either.

Sorry for ranting here.. I just look around me and see apathy... and the first ones to feel the wrath of Islam will be those now defending it. Ironic.

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