Jewish Mind Control: Magicians or Victims?

This actually began as a post in the topic about Jews and the media/internet, but it got too long so I'm creating this. I'm hoping that we can all discuss this and be civil about it. The aim here is to investigate the actual history of Jewish persecution to see if we came come closer to identifying any actual conspiracy, or what may be misconstrued as a conspiracy of Jewish control.

We can all recognize the "anti-semitic" sites on the internet - they are pretty clearly racist. Most of us have also been to websites that show a much more angelic image of the Jews and how they have been victims of
persecution since time began. They both paint contrasting pictures of the Jew, and one aims to promote a conspiracy, while the other aims to dispel it.

Many people here on ATS believe in a Jewish conspiracy to control the world, and many others don't. This is fine, and we are all one big happy disfunctional family. I want you to drop any belief you have right now
about Jews. The goal here is to be completely neutral about it. If you believe that Jews are evil, greedy, slimeballs, maybe you'll get a chance to see the softer, gentler side of the Jew. If you believe that Jews are
victims of persecution and deem anti-semites to be vulgar, horrible creatures - maybe you can see their side.

First, we'll look at some quotes from anti-semitic sites, followed by the actual text they are (mis)representing. While some do appear to be gross misrepresentations, or even outright lies of ideas contained in the Talmud, many are remarkably similar. We'll look at a few that are similar.

"Anti-semite":
“Every Jew is allowed to use lies and perjury to bring a Non-Jew to ruin”

Real text:

"Where a suit arises between an Israelite and a heathen, if you can justify the former according to the laws of Israel, justify him and say: 'This is our law'; so also if you can justify him by the laws of the heathens justify him and say [to the other party:] 'This is your law'; but if this can not be done, we use subterfuges to circumvent him"

come-and-hear

What does this actually say? When there is a dispute between a Jew and a heathen, the Jewish law will be considered first. It goes on to say that so also if the dispute can be considered by the heathens law, well then fine - everything is settled because both laws are compatible. If the Jew law and the Heathen law can not be reconciled, then the Jew must use subterfuge to circumvent the heathen and his law.

Maybe it says something else, what do you think it says?

"Anti-semite":
"The Talmud says that non-jews have sex with animals"

Real text:

ONE SHOULD NOT PLACE CATTLE IN HEATHENS' INNS, BECAUSE THEY ARE SUSPECTED OF IMMORAL PRACTICE WITH THEM. A [JEWISH] WOMAN SHOULD NOT BE ALONE WITH THEM, BECAUSE THEY ARE SUSPECTED OF LEWDNESS, NOR SHOULD A [JEWISH] MAN BE ALONE WITH THEM, BECAUSE THEY ARE SUSPECTED OF SHEDDING BLOOD.

Juchre.org

Well, it doesn't precisely say "sex with animals," but it does mention an "immoral practice." What is the

context?

"Anti-semite":
"The talmud suggests that non-jewish women are whores, and that non-jewish men perform immoral acts with meat and animals"

Real text:

In that case, neither should we buy male cattle from women, for fear of their having used them for immoral practice! ... nor accommodate a student ... as she might reckon on his modesty ...

Why then should we not leave female animals alone with female heathens? ...

Because heathens frequent their neighbours' wives, and should one by chance not find her in, and find the cattle there, he might use it immorally.

The above clears up the context of what "immoral" means, right? Heathens frequent their neighbors' wives, but if no wife is around - but cattle is - then they are a good substitute for a woman.

"I saw a heathen buy a goose in the market, use it immorally, and then strangle it, roast, and eat it. Also R. Jeremiah of Difti12 said: I saw an Arab who bought a side [of meat], pierced it for the purpose of an immoral act, after which act he roasted and ate it."

Juchre.org

"Anti-semite":
"The Torah teaches Jews that everyone wants to murder them."

Real text:

"But a heathen should not perform circumcision on an Israelite, because he is liable to take his life. "

"nor should a heathen woman suckle a child of an Israelite woman, because she is liable to murder it ... not

even while others are standing by her, for she may take the opportunity of rubbing in poison on her breast

beforehand and so kill the child."

Juchre.org

"Anti-semite":
"if a Jew finds an object lost by a gentile ("heathen") it does not have to be returned."

Real text:

Come and hear: If one finds therein a lost object, then if the majority are Israelites it has to be announced, but if the majority are heathens it has not to be announced.

Juchre.org


"Anti-semite":
"The Torah teaches Jews to kill non-Jews"

Real text:

If a heathen smites a Jew, he is worthy of death for it is written ... He who smites an Israelite on the jaw, is as though he had thus assaulted the Divine Presence; for it is written, one who smiteth man [i.e. an Israelite] attacketh the Holy One.

Juchre.org

I mean, you can actually check the Talmud and Torah to see if the claims are true. The book is pretty racist for the intents and purposes of the "anti-semite."

That kind of stuff has never helped the Jew throughout history. Neither has the fact that they've always tried to immigrate into Catholic nations while the Church taught that Jews were the ones that killed Jesus.

Another large problem is from their original "excile" they've never had a "nation." When you read a "pro-semitic victim" site, you'll see lists of how many times they were exciled and what "bad things" happened to them, but that's about it - they are just like the "anti-semitic" sites and don't give any real context.

Before the Jews were "exiled" from France, there was much discussion. Clermont-Tonerre said in a speech about the situation:

They are commanded to loan at usurious rates; they cannot be joined with us either in marriage or by the bonds of social interchange; our food is forbidden to them; our tables prohibited; our armies will never have Jews serving in the defense of the fatherland. The worst of these reproaches is unjust; the others are only specious. Usury is not commanded by their laws; loans at interest are forbidden between them and permitted with foreigners. . . .

What does this say to you? It might appear to reveal some form of Jewish persecution, right? Everything is forbidden to them! Is he really saying that?

For clarification, he goes on to say:

We must refuse everything to the Jews as a nation and accord everything to Jews as individuals. We must withdraw recognition from their judges; they should only have our judges. We must refuse legal protection to the maintenance of the so-called laws of their Judaic organization; they should not be allowed to form in the state either a political body or an order. They must be citizens individually. But, some will say to me, they do not want to be citizens. Well then! If they do not want to be citizens, they should say so, and then, we should banish them. It is repugnant to have in the state an association of non-citizens, and a nation within the nation. . . . In short, Sirs, the presumed status of every man resident in a country is to be a citizen.

chnm.gmu.edu...

This is a good example of why they've been forced to to wear "badges of shame" in many places - they would not become citizens, and so were identified as such. They were exciled because they have always immigrated somewhere only to set up their own laws/political structure within other countries. Sometimes being exciled happened strictly for religious purposes, but that is to be expected as Church/State were always in bed. If you look throughout history, more often then not, they were given the oppurtunity to be converted and stay.
Citizenship/Religious affiliation are very similar from a historical perspective.

In Spain, we can read much about Jewish Persecution on Wikipedia

The papal bull issued by Pope Innocent IV in April, 1250, to the effect that Jews might not build a new synagogue without special permission, also made making proselytes was forbidden to the Jews under pain of death and confiscation of property. They might not associate with the Christians, live under the same roof with them, eat and drink with them, or use the same bath; neither might a Christian partake of wine which had been prepared by a Jew. The Jews might not employ Christian nurses or servants, and Christians might use only medicinal remedies which had been prepared by competent Christian apothecaries.

en.wikipedia.org...

Okay, well, that doesn't sound too fair until you look at the speech our man Clermont-Tonerre gave about Jewish behavior. Beyond that, this papal bull of 1250 was merely backfire to the Jewish attitude towards "heathens will kill our children if they suckle them" and "kill our men if they perform circumcisions" The association with them, eating at the same table, marriage, and the rest was all the choice of the Jewish community... they don't do that stuff with heathens, especially use the same bath! Even the wine part there, if we look at the Talmud we see this:

"Anti-semitic":
"Discard wine touched by Christians. Abhodah Zarah (72b)"

Real Text:

Raba told the [Israelites] whose occupation was to pour wine: When you pour wine, let no heathen come near to help you, lest you forget yourselves and rest [the vessel] upon his [hands] and [the pouring] result from his action and [the wine] be prohibited.

I lost the link to this, but it can be found on Juchre.org.

If we look 50 years after this Papal Bull was issued - which didn't really have any profound effect, but is used on Jewish sites as a claim of victimization. we can see that in 1300, the Jews established - without the consent of the state - their own political body:

The Jews of Spain formed in themselves a separate political body. They lived almost solely in the Juderias, various enactments being issued from time to time preventing them from living elsewhere.

So now that they pulled this off, forming there own "political body" 1300, which is virtually it's own state - smack dab in the middle of Spain. It is of no coincidence that "official persecution" began in 1301! I'd imagine that virtually any country would begin "official persecution" if a nation was created within it's boundries - and this includes the situation with Israel.

This is all for now. Other members are encouraged to research the reasons that Jews have been exiled and persecuted throughout history. Remember, the goal here is to uncover any actual conspiracy. The method is to identify if the "jewish victimization" is being grossly exagerated. Persecution, or Deportation?

They certainly are quite..."open" about their views:

Jewish Supremacy

"We Jews regard our race as superior to all humanity, and look forward, not to its ultimate union with other races, but to its triumph over them."

- Goldwin Smith, Jewish Professor of Modern History at Oxford University, October, 1981.

White Guilt Complex/Black Hatred

"We must realize that our party's most powerful weapon is racial tension. By pounding into the consciousness of the dark races, that for centuries they have been oppressed by whites, we can mold them into the program of the Communist Party. In America, we aim for several victories. While inflaming the Negro minorities against the whites, we will instill in the whites a guilt complex for their supposed exploitation of the Negroes. We will aid the Blacks to rise to prominence in every walk of life and in the world of sports and entertainment. With this prestige, the Negro will be able to intermarry with the whites and will begin the process which will deliver America to our cause."

- Jewish Playwright Israel Cohen, A Radical Program For The Twentieth Century. Also entered into the Congressional Record on June 7, 1957, by Rep. Thomas Abernathy.

Communism, Judaism and Christianity

"Once the Jewishness of Bolshevism is understood, its otherwise puzzling features become understandable. Hatred of Christianity, for instance, is not a Russian characteristic; it is a Jewish one."

- A.N. FIELD, in Today's Greatest Problem.

What wonderful people, those Jews!

www....[hate-site-nolink]/posterity/13texan/1001ndx.htm

(Yes, I understand that it's linked to a "white nationalist" website, however I'm sure certain members aren't going to let political correctness get in the way of the facts).

[edit on 29-12-2007 by Chaoticar]

"What does this actually say? When there is a dispute between a Jew and a heathen, the Jewish law will be considered first. It goes on to say that so also if the dispute can be considered by the heathens law, well then fine - everything is settled because both laws are compatible. If the Jew law and the Heathen law can not be reconciled, then the Jew must use subterfuge to circumvent the heathen and his law. "


That means do whatever they have to do to win, I'm sure lying would fall into that catagory or using words that aren't normally used to cover up the meaning.


[edit on 29-12-2007 by Shawn B.]

[edit on 29-12-2007 by Shawn B.]

A lot of those quotes are just from parinoid Jewish people. My grandmas like that and so are my friends moms. They're just over protective not all Jewish people think that way.

That quote by Israel Cohen about racial tension is a pretty telling one when you compare it to the fact that the NAACP was founded with great help from Jewish individuals, and it was spearheaded by Jewish presidents. It was founded in 1909 and did not have a non-jew president until 1975.

While inflaming the Negro minorities against the whites, we will instill in the whites a guilt complex for their supposed exploitation of the Negroes. We will aid the Blacks to rise to prominence in every walk of life and in the world of sports and entertainment. With this prestige, the Negro will be able to intermarry with the whites and will begin the process which will deliver America to our cause."

Has the above happened already? Do Blacks dominate sports and entertainment? Do they now intermarry with the Whites?

The National Association for the Advancement of Colored People (NAACP): IN 1909, the NAACP was founded in the home of Joel Elias Spingarn, (a Jewish Columbia University professor of comparative literature who was also a founder of the publisher, Harcourt Brace). Among the NAACP's six to eight founders (sources vary) was also Henry Moscowitz. Joel Spingarn served as NAACP's Chairman of the Board from 1913 to 1939 and as its President from 1929 to 1939. He also established the Spingarn medal for outstanding achievement by an African American.

Following Spingarn in office was Arthur Spring who served as the NAACP President from 1939 to 1966. He, in turn, was succeeded by Kivie Kaplan, President from 1966 to 1975. Jews thus headed up the NAACP for nearly all of its first sixty-six years. Since 1975, the NAACP presidency has been held by blacks.

Jewishachievements.com

Is this all a coincidence, or is there something deeper going on?

Originally posted by Chaoticar

What wonderful people, those Jews!

[edit on 29-12-2007 by Chaoticar]

I thank you for your post, and please be careful using borderline racist remarks. It is very important that the discussion retains it's neutrality by only presenting factual information. Opinion, although something valueable, is not very important in this context and it is a surefire way to get banned or have this thread locked/deleted.

Many around here seem to have a problem with statements such as: What wonderful people, those Jews! while not beingl perturbed by similar statements about Iranians, Iraqis, Chinese, Americans, etc..

Originally posted by benign.psychosis
Many around here seem to have a problem with statements such as: What wonderful people, those Jews!

while not beingl perturbed by similar statements about Iranians, Iraqis, Chinese, Americans, etc..

If you do not want to attract the "hate element" to a thread such as this, then perhaps a different thread title than "Jewish Mind Control" would have been appropriate?

A reminder to all that knee-jerk "hate" material and commentary is not allowed on AboveTopSecret.com. Unfortunately, topics dealing with "the joooos" seem to attract such elements as quickly as hemp-related topics attract stoners. Please be mindful of your contributions.

I think it would be more helpful to find websites that are written by actual scholars, not hate websites or "Jewish victim" websites. The hate sites spread all sorts of misinformation and lies. The "victim" websites MAY also do the same, but I think it depends more on the individual author.

I just can't buy that hate sites would actually publish the truth. An article which has pros and cons is far more believable.

What is it with you and Jewish "conspiracies" anyway? It sounds like you are out to discredit the Jewish people, with the way you word things, IMHO.

Since when can A WHOLE PEOPLE be characterized by supposed writings that occurred thousands of years ago... and misinformation and out of context quotes from a racist HATE website.

Please think about this for a second...

The Muslim Bible considers anyone who does not believe in Muhammed and Allah to be an infidel.

The Christian Bible tells about how anyone who does not accept Jesus will go to hell. (Catholics)

We see these type of similarities in all Momo-theistic holy books written around that time.

But WAIT... its only the jews...!

damn!!!! lets see. i'm goin to hell.
i'm an infidel.
i can run and sing.
i'm gonna marry a white woman.
i was born inferior.

ha ha ha ha ha........earth is a HELL of a planet!!!!!!

Originally posted by benign.psychosis
I thank you for your post, and please be careful using borderline racist remarks. It is very important that the discussion retains it's neutrality by only presenting factual information. Opinion, although something valueable, is not very important in this context and it is a surefire way to get banned or have this thread locked/deleted.

Many around here seem to have a problem with statements such as: What wonderful people, those Jews!

while not beingl perturbed by similar statements about Iranians, Iraqis, Chinese, Americans, etc..

I apologise, as remarks like that often turn the thread into:

"ANTI-SEMITE! I'M NOT GOING TO READ ANYMORE OF YOUR HATE-FILLED STATEMENTS!" or
"YOUR AN ANTI-SEMITE, ERGO WHATEVER YOU SAY IS WRONG!".

Ad infinitum.

Also, for those saying that:

Originally posted by salez20
Since when can A WHOLE PEOPLE be characterized by supposed writings that occurred thousands of years ago... and misinformation and out of context quotes from a racist HATE website.

and

Originally posted by forestlady
I think it would be more helpful to find websites that are written by actual scholars, not hate websites or "Jewish victim" websites. The hate sites spread all sorts of misinformation and lies. The "victim" websites MAY also do the same, but I think it depends more on the individual author.

I'm sorry to burst the "collective bubble" of ignorance here, but most of those quotes were made by Jews, and were published in Jewish magazines.

Yes, I acknowledge the blatant idiocy of saying:
"Hitler thought the Jews were bad!" or
"Henry Ford though the Jews were bad!" etc etc, but what happens when the quotes come from Jewish intellectuals in Jewish magazines, journals etc?

Well?

A conspiracy by Jews does not equate to a Jewish conspiracy. Any evidence that one can provide that Jewish people have participated in a conspiracy is governed by this fact. The true puppet-masters pit people against eachother with all sorts of labels and titles, to divide and conquer.

Originally posted by forestlady
I think it would be more helpful to find websites that are written by actual scholars, not hate websites or "Jewish victim" websites. The hate sites spread all sorts of misinformation and lies. The "victim" websites MAY also do the same, but I think it depends more on the individual author.

I just can't buy that hate sites would actually publish the truth. An article which has pros and cons is far more believable.

Thanks for repeating what I posted in my first few paragraphs. I suppose you didn't read it at all at merely came here to spout your personal opinion... This is the reason why I began with Talmud entries as edited by Rabbi Dr. Isidore Epstein of Jews' College, London, and quotes from the University of Mason.

I just can't buy that hate sites would actually publish the truth. An article which has pros and cons is far more believable.

All that does is to encourage igrnorance. Hate sites often contain very racist information, but they can also point one towards material that may be of value. It is similar with conspiracy sites - do you actually buy that they publish the truth? At best, they can point you toward sources that may be more trustworthy, and at worst they pray on gullible minds.

I'm merely proposing that research be done on the persecution of the Jews from the compilation of neutral information to reveal clues to as if there is an actual conspiratal propaganda operation at hand...

This is a conspiracy site, right?

What is it with you and Jewish "conspiracies" anyway? It sounds like you are out to discredit the Jewish people, with the way you word things, IMHO.

This thread is meant to look into a conspiracy involving propaganda. The potential conspiracy is centered around the Jewish people. Jews are not the subject, merely the object.

Originally posted by Chaoticar

I apologise, as remarks like that often turn the thread into:

"ANTI-SEMITE! I'M NOT GOING TO READ ANYMORE OF YOUR HATE-FILLED STATEMENTS!" or
"YOUR AN ANTI-SEMITE, ERGO WHATEVER YOU SAY IS WRONG!".

Thank you. That is exactly what I want to avoid. There is a tendancy for certain individuals to begin using illogical and irrational thought patterns when the issue of the Jewish people is brought up.

but what happens when the quotes come from Jewish intellectuals in Jewish magazines, journals etc?

That is an interesting question.

On one hand, we have people convinced that there is the goal of a NWO by reading quotes from George HW Bush, Rockefeller, etc...

Yet, when the issue of race/religion comes up - specifically Jews - these types of quotes are all but ignored. Are they ignored because of the Holocaust, because of some type of guilt?


[edit on 30-12-2007 by benign.psychosis]

Originally posted by salez20
Since when can A WHOLE PEOPLE be characterized by supposed writings that occurred thousands of years ago... and misinformation and out of context quotes from a racist HATE website.

Well, I'm sorry but does Christianity (New, not Old, Testament) advocate:
* Christians using perjury to bring non-Christians to ruin?
* The belief that non-Christians have sex with animals?
* Non-Christian women are whores, while non-Christian men perform immoral acts with meat and animals?
* Non-Christians are actively seeking to kill Christians?

And I wouldn't categorise people on their writings - however, Jews, especially Orthodox Jews follow these writings to the letter. You'd presumably be horrified if a Christian sect went "Old Testament-style" on it's community, stoning adulterers, burning "blasphemers" etc.

Originally posted by salez20
The Muslim Bible considers anyone who does not believe in Muhammed and Allah to be an infidel.

What's this got to do with the debate on hand? Are you trying to say that because Muslims believe non-Muslims are "infidels" they are actively victimising them?

Originally posted by salez20
The Christian Bible tells about how anyone who does not accept Jesus will go to hell. (Catholics)

As with the Muslim debate.

Originally posted by salez20
But WAIT... its only the jews...!

Ironically enough, it is!

Originally posted by jackinthebox
A conspiracy by Jews does not equate to a Jewish conspiracy. Any evidence that one can provide that Jewish people have participated in a conspiracy is governed by this fact. The true puppet-masters pit people against eachother with all sorts of labels and titles, to divide and conquer.

Great post. There are Jews involved in the globalist conspiracy just like there’s everybody else. Here in the West, where Christianity is the dominant cultural influence, and Judaism is therefore mostly admired, the promulgation of the conspiracy being 'Jewish' works to have people dismiss it. In Muslim areas, it works toward having it believed and to building more anger toward the West. It all works in the globalists favor.

Originally posted by resistor
Great post.

There are Jews involved in the globalist conspiracy just like there’s everybody else. Here in the West, where Christianity is the dominant cultural influence, and Judaism is therefore mostly admired, the promulgation of the conspiracy being 'Jewish' works to have people dismiss it. In Muslim areas, it works toward having it believed and to building more anger toward the West. It all works in the globalists favor.

But what if most of the persons involved, are Jewish?

I would derail this thread with the Jewish origins of Communism, and the heavily-Jewish Russian Communist organisations between 1905 - 1940, but this is not the thread.