Is it possible to 'Combine' Theists & Atheists?...A 'What if?' Scenerio

This is purely Theoretical, and I would like to hear the thoughts of ALL our members.

*What IF Atheists and Theists alike, were BOTH right concerning not only the 'Evolution of man' BUT, also 'The teachings of Higher evolved Beings' - thought of as 'Gods'.

How can both be right? Well....

I'm not saying that the 'total side of Atheism' is inherently correct; nor the 'total side of Theism' is of the same.

I want to look higher - outside ALL boxes and combine both.

Here is the playing field:

1. I need that the Spiritual/Religious/Theists/etc., refrain from quoting from the Bible/Koran/Torah/etc. -any religious sources of any kind. Keep in mind any quotes from religious sources, however do NOT quote verses. Use verses (paraphrase if you will) and 'integrate them into your speech points. Be mindful/conciderate/and tolerant of others opinions and regard the TOC's and The Courtesy Rules of ATS as your 'Extended Bible' for these playing grounds.

2. I need that the Atheists/Agnostics/etc., refrain from quoting from science literature of any kind. The above T.O.C's & Courtesy Rules of ATS apply as well.

I would like, that BOTH sides concider this possibility:

The earth was seeded/populated (in the past) by a far Superior race; who not only provided technological means unto mankind, but ethical teachings, that (may have been misconscrued/tampered) throughout human history/religion. These beings would have been thought as 'gods' by any prehistorical definitions. Today, some 'miracles' and other 'magic-like' situations can readilly be explained through reasoning and science, others cannot......yet.

What if all the fighting and needless bickering amounted to nothing in the end; should we ALL discover that the above scenerio COULD be true.

What if there WERE more advanced beings inhabiting amongst the stars. Of ALL the many stars in this galaxy, and the MILLIONS upon millions of galaxies that we can only just view with the most powerful telescopes unto mankind...

We are not alone. It is more than arrogant of mankind to think that the stars above our heads were placed there...for OUR viewing pleasure in itself.

What if ...Science is correct about the age of the universe.
What if... Theists probably recorded the very first ethical teachings of a superior race, that would benefit all. (only to integrate/mistranslate these words throughout the ages...up til now)

What if both sides of the equation are 'correct'...to certain degrees?

~Ducky`







[edit on 28-12-2007 by TheDuckster]

There are people who believe these things, but I'm not one of them - and believe me, I'm definitely a "think outside the box" person. I searched and searched before I came right back around to what I still believe to be truth. The only difference is, that it's actually different than I originally thought it was, or, more correctly, was taught it was.

We are most definitely not alone; we just can't see with our physical eyes who else is here with us because there's a veil that separates the two realms. Most people can only relate to what they see and experience. A physical world on a planet with physical things and people. So they think to themselves, "Well there's all these other rocks up there, there must be more like us."

I used to believe in the arrogance of man thinking we're the only populated planet. Until I found out that God has other plans for the universe that haven't come into fruition yet. Right now as it stands, what we gaze upon in the heavens actually IS for our own personal viewing pleasure. And to me it shows yet again the amount of love God has for us by providing us such things of beauty to look upon.

BUT! Everything in God's creation has a purpose, and what most people tend to forget is that He is also the master time-keeper. Things happen according to His timing and His plan. God has been around forever and will live for Eternity. That's a lot of time for future plans to come into fruition. We humans have such a very limited view of creation. We are so innately narrow minded - even those who believe ourselves to be open-minded. But the truth of the matter is that none of us can possibly conceive of who God is and what He is capable of and why things happen the way we do. That's why it takes faith and trust to have a relationship with Him. We simply can't imagine the things God has in store for us. Wait it out a few years and there very well will be life on other planets throughout the universe. Wait it out a few years and what we consider to be Paranormal now, will be Normal.

It's a Utopian thought to think that we might be able to meet and agree on things somewhere in the middle and both be right to some extent; the only problem is that when it comes to absolute truth, someone's going to be right and someone's going to be wrong. That's just the way truth is. It's a double edged sword.

[edit on 28-12-2007 by ReginaAdonnaAaron]

reply to post by ReginaAdonnaAaron


Regina...

I hold dear the teachings of our Lord. Period. Don't get me wrong.

Hon?

I wanted to present a 'what if' scenerio.

Plausiblilities

Is it remotely possible (even .00001 % possible) that our earth could have been seeded/planted with DNA from Superior Races?

These races or perhaps one in particular are..........God?

~Ducky~

Dearest Ducky...

I know you do

And I understand the whole "what if" thing too. An excellent thread. I love thought provoking subjects.

In regards to the remote possibility - that's a very tough question. I don't know exactly how God did things. I would love to know and hope to one day though. I'll take a stab at it though, even if only hypothetically speaking at this point. DNA? I believe that to be a completely human trait and God being spirit, I don't believe has DNA. I believe he can create it though. So... I guess, at this point my answer to your question would be no. Or is that yes? If He can create it... hmm...

My brain hurts now.

reply to post by ReginaAdonnaAaron


I'm going to (paraphrase/not ACTUAL quote):

"With Him...ALL things are possible."

Is the 'Him', that I paraphrase...is it POSSIBLE, that HE (To which we hold dearly his teachings and promises) IS an Extremely Superior Race? HE WOULD WANT NO OTHER GODS (Superior ExtraTerrestrial Races) before him?

Remember...I'm presenting a 'Plausible' senerio...and that alone.

~Ducky~

Well, first of all the word "Race"... I have an issue with, which is defined as "a group of persons related by common descent or heredity"

Are we not of the same race if God created us and we are of Him and in Him?

Maybe Superior Being might be better wording? I mean, because God is definitely far superior. Far...far...far superior. But I consider us of the same race since He is the tree of life. The energy source that sustains us all.

And, being who He is, it's just not plausible in my mind that there could possibly be superior ExtraTerrestrial Races before him.

Or am I missing your point? You'll have to forgive me, I'm battling a headache at the moment so I may a little slow on the upload.

Sorry, Ducks, but the reason we're atheists is because there is no evidence of anything other, be it a god or a super-intelligent alien race.

Maybe you'll find some atheists who think other than me, but I'm pretty sure that most of the ones on this board don't think this way.

Absence of evidence is evidence of absence.

When there's any real evidence of these concepts, I'll re-evaluate my position.

But you're still Ducks to me.

reply to post by MajorMalfunction


AHHHHHHH there you are!!!!

Cheers babes!

No seriously! I was waitin for ya hon. Honestly and truely.

Ok..play with me for a wee bit.

I'm corrulating - a 'possible' Superior Race - seeding the planet/distributing not only genetic material and 'technologies', but distributing ethical teachings and such.

I understand to the best of my abilities 'your position as atheist'. I honestly DO!

MM? Gotta ask ya.

What are the possibilites of what I had mentioned?

Let's take God/Deities out of the question, and insert 'them' with - possible Ancient...Intelligent/Maleavalent 'beings'?

These beings would have technologies beyond our dreams/their ethical morals would seem...'UTOPIAN' to us...perhaps 'God-like'?

What do you think of this 'what if' scenerio MM?

I ALWAYS look forward to 'your' thoughts.

Play? Pweeze?

What do YOU think hon?

~Ducky~

The problem, Duckster, is that asking us to accept the premise of a superior race seeding the earth with intelligence is like asking the theists to accept the premise that there is no god. The existence of god is basic to your beliefs, and the tenets of science are basic to ours. Neither side can give up part of their fundamental beliefs.

However, I think I understand what you were trying to do, so I'll comment on that. Even though the theists and the atheists have a small (but essential) area where we disagree, there are huge areas where we agree: Protecting children, feeding the needy, helping everyone get a good education, having honest representation by our politicians, and on and on.

The idea is that we find those areas of agreement and work together to make the world a better place.

Occam

The problem, Duckster, is that asking us to accept the premise of a superior race seeding the earth with intelligence is like asking the theists to accept the premise that there is no god.

Remember...this is 'hypothetical' in nature.

The existence of god is basic to your beliefs, and the tenets of science are basic to ours. Neither side can give up part of their fundamental beliefs.

I'm keeping these things in mind; as I've stated in my OP.

However, I think I understand what you were trying to do, so I'll comment on that. Even though the theists and the atheists have a small (but essential) area where we disagree, there are huge areas where we agree: Protecting children, feeding the needy, helping everyone get a good education, having honest representation by our politicians, and on and on.

Very VERY wise words my friend.

The idea is that we find those areas of agreement and work together to make the world a better place.

Ground-Breaking!... to Monumental Standards!!! If I could APPLAUD you...I would. Starred and Flagged!

Occam?

What do you think of my 'theoretical' question?

Is it POSSIBLE, by any standards, that the earth 'could have been seeded by Superior Intelligent life - (in order to bring about in some fashion) 'Scientific/Tecnological and perhaps Ethical guidance?'

And...

If you believe this to be (somewhat) true, what would YOU say to support this? Negate this?

~Ducky~

[edit on 28-12-2007 by TheDuckster]

Deism, maybe? That sort of sounds like it might fit your criteria. Deists believe that God created the universe in the very beginning, left it to form, and takes no part in the matters of Man.

Deism is fundamentally different from Atheism because it posits God as the creator, instead of just science.

Deism is fundamentally different from Theism in that the deist god does not interfere, and may not even know about, the lives of people.

In that way, both would be right and wrong. Thomas Jefferson was a deist, I believe.

Is it more plausible to reconcile the notion that 'we human beings were seeded unto this planet; given...at some point in our history, the tools/technology/and ethical standards of sustaining/balancing our life-styles'...

Rather than...

...a 'fairytale god in the sky'- that of religious books of today?

I want the truth. YOU want the truth.

Let's work with (what I think) is a plausible/real scenerio.

Opinions?

~Ducky~

reply to post by Nutrients


No. NOT Deism.

~Ducky~

reply to post by TheDuckster


I missed the part in a post above to not consider deities at all, and instead replace them with intelligent beings.

If that's the case, then you can't even consider reconciling theism and atheism. Atheism allows for the possibility of "seeding", and theism doesn't.

They can't both be right in this situation.

reply to post by Nutrients


Not the 'total aspects' of Theism or Atheism.

To join the 2 with respects to this plausibility:

The earth was seeded/populated (in the past) by a far Superior race; who not only provided technological means unto mankind, but ethical teachings, that (may have been misconscrued/tampered) throughout human history/religion. These beings would have been thought as 'gods' by any prehistorical definitions. Today, some 'miracles' and other 'magic-like' situations can readilly be explained through reasoning and science, others cannot......yet.

Remember...

I presented a 'theoretical' senerio.

~Ducky~

Originally posted by TheDuckster

What if both sides of the equation are 'correct'...to certain degrees?


[edit on 28-12-2007 by TheDuckster]

This has always been the best way I could sum up my opinions, actually.

I've always felt that the "divine", or "supernatural"(what ever you want to call it) works through the physical universe.

Originally posted by Occam
The problem, Duckster, is that asking us to accept the premise of a superior race seeding the earth with intelligence is like asking the theists to accept the premise that there is no god.

Really.. Wow, I must have missed the teaching that if there are alien races, there must not be a God.. Hmmm.. As fara s them seeding the earth, let's say they did, that still wouldn't cancel out there being a God in my opinion. :shk:

I see no reason to look to an alien race when abiogenesis and evolution more than adequately explain the origins of life on earth.

Sorry, Ducks, I can no more play hypothetical alien race than I can Shar's hypothetical "what would you do if Revelations came true?"

Neither one has any evidence to support it, and until and unless they do, the simplest, non-supernatural and non-extraterrestrial explanation is the correct one.

First, Duckster, MajorMalfunction covered it nicely. It would seem to be an unnecessary complication to introduce this Superior Race concept when the genetic evidence for a smooth evolution from other primates to humans is so well documented. And, based on my screen name, Occam's razor says approximately, don't clutter up any explanation with unnecessary ideas that don't contribute anything.

Second, you may have seen the Startrek TNG episode that was based on precisely what you are suggesting. However, it was used as an excellent explanation of why Cardasians, Klingons, Romulans, and humans all originated on other planets yet had humanoid form. The superior race had seeded all the planets with their genetics.

Third, putting my reasoning aside for the moment and accepting your premise: It would have no effect on my non-theistic beliefs. I'd just be interested to have some verification that extra-terrestial sentient species exist. However, I think this could cause real problems for the non-fundamentalist theists because it would separate their god from them by a huge step, and require a big modification of the Adam and Eve story.

Occam

I've never been a fan of the whole Occam's Razor thing... (please take no offense Occam). I feel that it allows only a very limited amount of possibilities - especially when investigating the paranormal and supernatural. It really doesn't allow a person to really think outside the box.