Existentialism - Vital information not being taught @ Schools

Well first of all I want to talk about the intention of this thread; Are you ever reaching points in life where you think too much about things, and do not achieve enough for your own happyness and success?

Do you remember some of those points where people give you advice or a deeper discussion which really change your inner feelings and thoughts.. and how you view your situation? I mean naturally if you talk about situations with people there are often many kinds of advices.. and although most of them are meant to be good, only few people know what they are really talking about giving you truly valuable information about life.

In my opinion the deeper and valuable analysis of our lives, and on how each individual copes with his personal struggle through life can be summed up under the science of "Existentialism". Interestingly enough this is one of the things the government doesn't want us to learn at school. Because it could make life alot more clear, enjoyable and enlightening.

en.wikipedia.org...

Existentialism is a philosophical movement which posits that individual human beings create the meaning and essence of their lives. It emerged as a movement in twentieth-century literature and philosophy, though it had forerunners in earlier centuries. Existentialism postulates that the absence of a transcendent force (i.e: God) means that the individual is entirely free, and, therefore, ultimately responsible. It is up to humans to create an ethos of personal responsibility outside of any branded belief system. That personal articulation of being is the only way to rise above humanity's absurd condition (suffering and death, and the finality of the individual).

My idea was giving the people who feel the need or interest in catching up or contributing to this form of science a place to ask questions or post their own experiences.

I might even want to add the cause for me to post such a thread. Just yesterday I was getting pretty mad at most of the friends of mine. Since I already had reduced to a low number of relationships due to experience and age about 2 years ago. But now, in a difficult situation, I had the feeling that every single friend was abandoning me. I really dont want to make an emo-kid impression; I'm glad about my life in general.. and everything apart from "friendships" is running very fine.. but still, friendships are not really comparable to family or a partner. Therefore I was very confused since I'm a pretty social person.

I talked about this situation with some dude in a guild I barely know. But after receiving some pretty much useless advice from another guy in the same guild, he was listening to our discussion and afterwards presented me his opinion. He reminded me about the fact how every person is struggling with his own life.. it is pointless to waste too many thoughts about the reasons for "leaving" friends. Also would my negative assumptions and thoughts, subconsciously influence my surroundings, including my friends. Therefore possibly making those negative thoughts and fears manifest themselves in one way or another into reality. He also pointed out that I should change my perspective to the side of people surrounding me.. who don't know what or how I "think". Possibly things are not as bad as I felt in that moment, and if they really are.. that's life.

After hearing his point of view it took only a few minutes to make me feel alot more comfortable and confident about life in general, my view on relationships and my current situation. It completely changed my perspective. I'm absolutely aware that such information could be summed up with standard phrases like "Dont worry, be happy.", "Think Positive and everything runs fine." Or: "Simple-minded people have an easier life.".
But they simply do not have the same effect than an elaborate existentialist' analysis or discussion. And then there is also the philosophical idea, which in my opinion is way too far away from every-day life or reality with those massive amounts of word-play and smart, exagerated and thoughtful phrase-structures. Way too theoretical I'll say it rightaway.

That was just a little example of how this thread could be used. It is a very young science.. and in my opinion one of it's main characteristics is that the proximity to practical life sometimes makes it's texts extremely complex. But I still hope that some people in here actually understand what I want to say and are really interested in bringing in their part of the cake.

This science is way too valuable and underestimated to be left aside. We should use it instead... in a practical sense.

I suppose Existenialism is where the comment "Life is what you make it" came from...

I think there is some truth to it. Now, being a Theist myself, I'm not sure that my personal beliefs really complement the existentialist philosophy, but that doesn't mean it doesn't have merit.

Existentualism is a philosophical perspective. I personally do not consider it a 'science' and it is something seperate from the 'laws of attraction' [positive thinking created positive etc.]. I admit though I still felt more comfortable with it than when I did believe in a 'god' [I am atheist buddhist now]. I was able to see what parts of my life I did have power over which was quite healthy.. unfortuantly I got to see all the parts I didn't have power over as well. catch 22.. reality can be harsh sometimes.

[edit on 15-12-2007 by riley]

...good news *they* don't teach this drivel in schools.

A. your source is (CIA-edited Wiki), which, doesn't 'count' in my opinion.

B. w/ authors like these 'dark age' terrorists, I wish the 'philosophy' didn't even exist. But there's gotta be devils and demons among humanity, right? (insert a large sardonic dose here)

From the OP 'link':

As a philosophic movement, existentialism's origins are heavily accredited to the nineteenth-century philosophers Kierkegaard and Nietzsche, and existentialism was prevalent in Continental philosophy...

...wrote scholarly and fictional works that popularized existential themes such as "dread, boredom, alienation, the absurd, freedom, commitment, and nothingness".[1]

I know there's a lot of 'fans' of some of these author's 'works' even in these parts, why, I have no idea besides lacking a real education of Platonic 'truths' which lead to scientific discovery, um, everywhere -- through his conception of solids. The world *would* be still in non-industrial state without him. Some of these people wrote drivel to brainwash people into stupidity.

Yeah, I dislike this garbage that much & Plato himself, *would* call these people Sophists. Or 'disinfo agents' as *we* like to 'say' around here.

Right, Bush?

www.abovetopsecret.com...



[edit on 16-12-2007 by anhinga]

Interesting how much credit you give to Plato. Especially attributing the "industrial" societies in which we now live to portions of his overall ridiculous platonic epistemology. However, if you're a fan of innatism then I'm not at all surprised that you'd seek to discredit continental/existential philosophers like Nietzsche and Kierkegaard who as "Fathers" of Existentialism have had huge influence over such debates happening in Philosophy of Science, Philosophy of Biology and Feminist Epistemologies. I'm sure you'll find these ridiculous, too

Osram, could you explain what exactly you mean when you say existentialism is a science?

reply to post by parrhesia


You absolutely contradict yourself within the two posts. Asking how this nonsense is 'science' yet trying to discredit me, w/ the popular, buzzword, "ridiculous" -- which, to me, is totally meaningless.

Anyway, back to the topic, the subject is far from relating to 'sciences' as you claim w/ your unfounded posts, either provide links to said topics, or I could careless of your viewpoint about such a degenerate philosophy.

The Cultural-Paradigm Shift

In recent decades, especially since 1968, the U.S.A. had been made extraordinarily vulnerable to the risks of such kinds of long-term effects, a vulnerability which was caused, chiefly, by the specific effects associated with the rise of the so-called "white collar" Baby-Boomers as a growing influence within the transformations occurring within the culture of an evolving adult society.

For an example of that fact: In many nations, it is often difficult to find a local Catholic priest younger than sixty or more years of age; this is chiefly an expression of the cultural influence of the "white collar" tradition specific to the 68er generation. The present rampage of the "Global Warming" swindle is a prominent clue to the specific form of cultural and moral decadence rampant in the "white collar" roots and fruits of the 68er revolution....

The so-called "white collar" stratum of our "Baby Boomer" generation, as typified by the 1945-1956 interval of the "white collar" class, has lost a commitment to posterity which distinguishes the immortal soul of the true human being from the feral beast. The bonds which should tie successive generations in the expressed immortality of an eternal mission, have been severed by the radically quasi-Nietzschean, Sophist existentialism of such as the European Congress for Cultural Freedom's Horkheimer, Adorno, and Arendt, and the circles around Margaret Mead's Josiah Macy, Jr. Foundation's "information theory" cult.

Thus, we have experienced the "white collar" social castes which, by and large, distinguish that Baby-Boomer generation from its "blue collar" contemporaries, a caste whose influence is reflected in the actual long-term effects of the influence of the "white-collar 68ers," over the 1968-2007 interval. These effects have tended to prompt the culprits, the Baby Boomers themselves, to resort to sweeping and destructive, draconian measures of social control, such as today's lunatic, so-called "environmentalist" measures of globalization, and, thus, into methods of political tyranny employed, ironically, tragically, as "corrective" measures of control of individual behavior, as by "environmentalist" measures which generate long-ranging ruinous effects as bad in their own way, as those of the pro-eugenics Hitler regime earlier. Often, even usually, this draconian reaction to long-term consequences of patterns in cumulative local, short-term behavior, is a reaction of a type which has little or nothing to do with the causes of the problem, but is simply the tyrannical enforcement of some antic delusion, as, presently, by many among our Baby-Boomer stratum itself.

Customs which are intrinsically irrational, from a functional standpoint, have been often enforced by the approximation of fascist, or other oligarchical forms of tyrannies called a "consensus"—or "consensus" in Hitler-era German, Gleichschaltung.

www.larouchepac.com...

Call LaRouche whatever you want, but remember he was an adviser w/ Reagan and his 'crime' was tax evasion & mail fraud -- hardly credible against his name and research imo.

Anyway, that's a little clip about how this dark philosophy relates to this post-industrial decline... and how you try to discredit Plato is shameful. Imagine modern cities without Platonic solids? Yet most of the items in your day-to-day life. This is aside from the fact that Plato looked towards provable truths -- which, to me, is sound science & philosophy versus an idea of 'nothingness' -- spare me, save that vague idea, should it even be that, for astronomy, science and their studies of dark matter.



[edit on 16-12-2007 by anhinga]

I don't know how old you are or when the last time you went to school was, but my high school offered philosophy classes that thoroughly examined existential questions, and also briefly touched on existentialism in literature classes. Not to mention the fact that there are only a handful of colleges and universities in the world that DON'T offer classes on the subject.

Second, I would not say that existentialism is the key to happiness. Maybe for you it is, and I know for a while I was really into it, too. But let's face it, man, pretty much every existential work is terribly depressing. Quoting wikipedia like you, the most popular themes in existentialism are "dread, boredom, alienation, the absurd, freedom, commitment, and nothingness." Not really uppers.

[edit on 17-12-2007 by theologian]

Osram, could you explain what exactly you mean when you say existentialism is a science?

Well maybe those are not the ideal wordings. Maybe I refered to this as science because I see, or intend to encourage a more practical use/discussion of "existentialism". I really think that making a more practical use of existentialist "theories" would move it closer to the definition of science.

I don't know how old you are or when the last time you went to school was, but my high school offered philosophy classes that thoroughly examined existential questions, and also briefly touched on existentialism in literature classes. Not to mention the fact that there are only a handful of colleges and universities in the world that DON'T offer classes on the subject.

Second, I would not say that existentialism is the key to happiness. Maybe for you it is, and I know for a while I was really into it, too. But let's face it, man, pretty much every existential work is terribly depressing. Quoting wikipedia like you, the most popular themes in existentialism are "dread, boredom, alienation, the absurd, freedom, commitment, and nothingness." Not really uppers.

I dont know how old you are either, but honestly, I dont care.
I was in philosophy classes myself, even with a pretty well-known philosopher as a teacher. But still, existentialism is only considered a branch of philosophy and cannot be refered to as "philosophy" classes in school.
You admit it yourself. It was only briefly touched even at your school.
And for my part I didn't get alot of answers from my teacher while asking him about existentialism. Nor were the philosophy classes really interesting, imo. Honestly.. what have shadows casted on some cave-walls got to do with everyday life? I forgot about almost everything in those classes since it was way too theoretical and not practically related. And probably the same goes for most of the other students.

I didn't say existentalism is my key to happiness. I only said that it can be a helpful tool to understand some things or improve your mindset.
I don't see why you are taking such a depressing look at existentialism, maybe it's what you make out of it. Sure the main message of independence and every individual being responsable for their own life including all of it's struggles is not very "funny". It's a challenge. And depending on how you look at it or use it.. it can make a very depressing impression. For my part i try to use it with a positive feeling.

There's nothing wrong with preparing young people for a #ed up world.. a sad reality. Preparing them for their own struggle in life and tossing in one or two handy tools to make them feel more prepared and comfortable. There is no reason for so many afraid individuals.. if they are able to face reality. To face their own existence.

Instead of teaching them biased history, useless hardcore-theoretical philosophy etc. Just massive amounts of confusing, irritating things and very often.. plain lies.

But anyway.. as I said the only thing I am trying to achieve here is encouraging people to use this thread.. and contribute in a practical way. Call it what you want; Existantialistic science, existentialistic philosophy.. "Anonymous Existentialists.." .. I really don't care.






[edit on 18-12-2007 by osram]

reply to post by osram



perhaps there was a mechanism at work which caused all those friends & associates to go-away, decouple as it were...
so you wouldn't have all that 'noise' that they always seem to bring...

and you could rebalance

I was in philosophy classes myself, even with a pretty well-known philosopher as a teacher. But still, existentialism is only considered a branch of philosophy and cannot be refered to as "philosophy" classes in school.

I don't quite understand what you're saying here. You admit that existentialism is a branch of philosophy, yet you're saying it shouldn't be taught in philosophy classes? The philosophy class at my school studied existentialism exclusively, throughly and in detail for about 4 weeks.

You admit it yourself. It was only briefly touched even at your school.

No, I admitted that in literature classes it was also briefly touched upon. In philosophy classes it was thoroughly examined.

I agree that it should be taught (and it is...), along with every other major branch of philosophy in a broad, liberal arts style. Knowledge is power. The more you know, the better off you are.

[edit on 18-12-2007 by theologian]