Removal of the Right to Bear Arms

reply to post by andre18



If you take anything at all away from this thread let it be that

[ quote ] some text here [ / quote ]

without the spaces is how you denote quotes for your responses.

Andre, correct me if I've misunderstood your argument, but are you arguing that if guns were outlawed everything would be peaceful because nobody would have guns?

Because if that's the case, it simply amazes me that you think the criminals would actually give up their guns.

Law abiding citizens would all disarm, while the people who are actually dangerous would keep their guns and use them on the unarmed public. This is what makes them criminals, they don't do what the law says.

Marijuana is illegal also. Look how much of that there is.

reply to post by magicmushroom


A gun isn't a monkey wrench. You can kill a lot of people with a gun - particularily a semi or fully automatic. Crazies keep killing people in the US - ask yourself why? Why is it so easy to get a gun? Why are nuts able to access weapons with such ease? Is it ACCESS to weapons that creates these mass killings? Or would they occur without that access? How many people would they kill with a knife before they were gunned down by the police? 1? 2? 3?

J.

reply to post by jimbo999


See the last line of my post for a ballpark idea of how well you can eliminate access to something simply by banning it. You can apply the same concept to almost any drug, or Alcohol during prohibition.

Originally posted by mattifikation
Andre, correct me if I've misunderstood your argument, but are you arguing that if guns were outlawed everything would be peaceful because nobody would have guns?

Because if that's the case, it simply amazes me that you think the criminals would actually give up their guns.

Same here. I'm done trying to appeal to this logic. The majority of us know how ridiculous this entire debate is.

We need our guns. Period. Take them away and the nation is done for.

Originally posted by mattifikation
Andre, correct me if I've misunderstood your argument, but are you arguing that if guns were outlawed everything would be peaceful because nobody would have guns?

I don't think that it would happen over night, but in time it is possible, for example, Australia has put a ban on guns and crime involved in guns is basically nothing...there isn't people making guns at home or the police taking control of 'defenseless' citizens....it's a step in the right direction....just because Americans can't live without guns doesn't mean any other country can't.....

Because if that's the case, it simply amazes me that you think the criminals would actually give up their guns.

No they wouldn't, but as guns become scarcer due to a gun banning, it becomes increasingly difficult for criminals to get a hold of guns, the less frequent guns are to obtain, people wouldn't then be able to just walk in and by a guns.

Law abiding citizens would all disarm, while the people who are actually dangerous would keep their guns and use them on the unarmed public. This is what makes them criminals, they don't do what the law says.

Yes they probably would keep them, but it would then be much easer for police to catch them with evidence as barely anyone would have a gun.....if someone was shot in Australia, it would be as easy as pie for the police to find the criminal because no one uses guns, they can trace the only possible places they could have got the gun from.

Marijuana is illegal also. Look how much of that there is.

You can grow drugs, you have to build guns if it's at home made if you have the know how...and you need to the right equipment from the right stores ..etc

here's a little something

"In October 1992, in Louisiana, a Japanese exchange student named Yoshihiro Hattori went into the wrong house on the way to a Halloween party. The homeowner's wife screamed for help and the homeowner drew his .44 pistol and yelled for the student to 'freeze!' Not understanding the American idiom that 'freeze!' means 'Don't move or I'll shoot', the student continued advancing towards the homeowner. The homeowner pulled the trigger and shot him dead.[1] While the incident initially attracted only brief attention in the national American press, the shooting horrified Japan; hundreds of thousands of Japanese have signed petitions calling for the United States to implement gun prohibition, and Hattori's parents have announced plans to begin working with the American lobby, Handgun Control Inc. "

www.davekopel.com...

"The U.N. is after Americans' Second Amendment gun rights – it wants gun ownership banned in the U.S., and it's not going to stop until it gets its way."

archive.newsmax.com...

[edit on 15-12-2007 by andre18]

Andre, I think you need a reality check, here in the UK after the Dunblame killings all legally held fireams were outlawed. Since that time gun activity in this country has gone up several hundred percent the criminals can easily get hold of guns and far from the Police being able to easily catch said perps they are more interested in chasing speeding motorists.

The fact of the matter is that the American people have a right to bear arms and that right is enshrined in the constitution, efforts are now being made to remove that right so what is your answer to this and why do you think it is happening. I'm not asking about the morals of gun crime etc.

Also if the pre ww2 German populace had such rights do you think it would have been easy for Hitler and his cronnies to subjugate the people knowing full well that they would form into well armed and organised Militias.

Put simple this thread is about what the US Goverment is up to and what are their intentions once they have removed such rights.

People always have and always will kill other people.As long as their are humans there will be murders. If sombody wanted to kill John Dough a gun would be an easy way, if they didnt have a gun the murder would not be prevented, they would find other means. Prisoners dont have guns, Yet people are still killed (shanked) with micky mouse made knives. The British dont have guns..Yet there knife related deaths are twice that of America,LOOK at the stats in the U.K. Why might you ask..are there so many murders with knives? Because they dont have guns, those same peope that would have shot sombody stabbed them instead because they couldnt get a gun.

Originally posted by jtma508

Originally posted by dave420Now if we're talking about the ol' "what's to stop King George stealing my waffles etc. etc." argument, well, the armed forces are there for that. And if it's the "stop a corrupt government" argument, well, again - the armed forces will definitely help with that (they've taken an oath for just that purpose).

If only this were true. George Bush and Dick Cheney took the very same oath. That hasn't stopped them from running rough-shod over The Constitution. We can only hope that the military remain true to 'The People' should that time come. IMO, the military might be convinced to round us all up, detain us, take our property, etc. but far less likely to shoot us. And that would only become necessary if we resisted.

George Bush is destroying the Constitution he swore to protect.


The Presidential Oath of Office
The oath to be taken by the president on first entering office is specified in Article II, Section 1, of the Constitution:

I do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will faithfully execute the office of President of the United States, and will to the best of my ability, preserve, protect, and defend the Constitution of the United States.

Andrea there are no "special parts". All it takes is a little 1/4 in pipe a small nail and .22 cal ammo, a basic zip gun instruction can be found in any prison yard. In fact you don't even need a hardware store at all. As to why would anyone want one. Power over any other individual. You have it, I want it, bang, it is mine. It really doesn,t matter if I can go buy it or not. Besides some will do it just for the "fun" of it no matter how sick that may be it is the way of life. You cannot regulate the conscience no matter how much regulation is passed. In reality, if I want it, I will take it. Only our mores will keep us from performing in said manner.


respectfully

reluctantpawn

edit for content

[edit on 17-12-2007 by reluctantpawn]

I think the world should be more concerned about stopping violence in, say, Africa, than be focusing on making guns illegal in the United States. The UN, Japan, Australia, and the world community should be focusing on the places that are really violent. I'm not excluding the US from helping too, I'm just making a point. Like I said, let us answer the question of gun ownership in our own country. Stop getting all uppity because we can own guns here, and focus on a real world problem. Americans can solve American problems. This problem does not extend beyond our shores and does not affect other countries.

I know, I know, "America tells the rest of the world what to do all the time". Typically, however, when we do start doing that, it's a matter of actual international interest. Let Americans vote on what is to be done about the 2nd Amendment.

Edit: Fixed typo

[edit on 17-12-2007 by Grozny07]

Andre, you seem like an intelligent person, and you have some nice views on peace and loving your brother etc. I would love to live in a world where we all get along, but for now that just isnt the case, for now I will keep my gun at my side. I love my guns, I love shooting them, and I will never ever give them up end of story. I am sorry but that article about the japenese kid, yeah it is sad, but come on, you see a gun pointed at you and keep walking towards the guy. A person you have never seen before walks into your home, and you tell him to freeze he keeps coming at you, I would have shot him also. I dont care if the whole damn world signs a petition saying we should give up our guns, I am not going to hand over my guns.

Click here for more information.



[edit on 12/22/07 by niteboy82]

Please check your u2u's

[edit on 12/22/07 by niteboy82]

I know I posted this thread December 07 but it would seem pertinant to re errect it now given the many events within the US and the current increase in fire arms purchases.

It is my view that an "event" will be staged/used in which to invoke the Patriot Act/Military Commisions Act to remove the right to bear arms and that the well armed American populace will loose their guns.

Despite the bluster and bravado of many gun owners here on ATS the real question is if a Policeman knocks on your door requesting that you hand over your guns and ammo what are you going to do.

There are only two options, either you hand them over or you dont. If you hand them over you have lost your rights and lost your right to protect yourself, family and property. If you resist, do you fancy being arrested thrown in jail, have your house ransacked until they do find your stash.

These scenarios pose real problems, bull and bluster aside how dose the average law abiding American hold onto to what is legal his and also his legal rights.

If such an event is created where the ownership of fire arms is made illegal what happens then. Will the law abiding sheeple just meekly hand over their guns and ammo or are we going to see a massive increase in cop killers a scenario I find hard to believe.

I'm sure the perps will have all their plans in place and have every contingency planned for. And they will do anything to bring that about. Do not forget the type of people you will be facing, these are the people who murdered fellow Americans, men, women and children at Ruby Ridge, Wako, Oklahoma and 9/11.

They have honned their skills and tactics, practise makes perfect all they are waiting for is the green light and it will come. So what do you think you will do, how will you react.

Without a doubt a good portion of the people will give over their weapons without so much as a whimper, but on the other hand there are a good number of people out there that will only harden their resolve. When it comes, many firearms will simply disappear only to reappear later. I do not see open resistance at this point as the law enforcement will be better prepared to deal with it as it is expected. The true nature of the american people, the real patriots will start to form up and resist about a year later. Things might get interesting then depending on the politcal tide that is in effect. If we in fact do see martial law, or a new monetary system installed after the gun grab, there may be a real uprising of the people. If nothing of significance happens the gun grab may go unchecked for a longer time.

respectfully

reluctantpawn

It honestly bothers me how protective some people are about their precious guns.

I don’t own any guns. I’ve never been attacked or had anyone come after me or my family. The government has never come to my house to take over. No “violent criminals” have ever crossed my path.

I just don’t get it. What is everyone so damn scared about? I read about people keeping shotguns next to their beds and it just boggles my mind how some people are so afraid.