If Jesus didn't exist, then the Muslims are also wasting their time

If we are to believe the notion that Jesus didn't exist, and that he was mearly a symbol for the story of the solar year (a ridiculous idea if you actually look into it), then the muslim people must be wasting their time assuming that Jesus will return on judgement day. Just thought i'd mention it

If that is the case then the ain religion will be with the Jews because they are still waiting for their own saviour still which they deny was Jesus so in the end because of this man will wait again.

reply to post by sinthia


argument ad populum is still a logical fallacy when you include a second group in.

the simple fact is that the zeitgeist criticism isn't the only one that's out there.

reply to post by sinthia


It seems i heard somewhere that Mohammed recognized Jesus as lord. I know the Jews and Christians believe in the God of Abraham. Then the muslem faith arose some centuries later and also profess belief in the god of Abraham.

"argument ad populum is still a logical fallacy when you include a second group in. "

The Muslims do expect Jesus to appear on judgement day, they are a second group who have always been a part of the debate

I wasn't making an argument, I was stating a fact!

reply to post by sinthia


...actually, they do expect jesus to arrive in their end of the world scenario...
he promptly converts to islam and leads an army against the armies of a demon guy

and you are still stating an argument.

anyway, still not proving anything.
it doesn't matter if the muslims would be wasting their time too, there still isn't enough evidence to show that jesus existed.

oh, and rockets, mohammed stated that jesus was one of the 3 universal prophets (the other 2 being moses and mohammed)

right, Jesus didn't exist according to the Zeitgeist groupies, and yet, all three of the major Monotheistic, Abrahamic Religions of the World acknowledge he existed, and 2 of them consider him to be elevated in spiritual status greatly (Christianity / Islam).

the story of Jesus is in the Koran, it's just a tiny bit different. Mainly, at the end, they only plot to crucify Jesus, but God "takes him up into heaven" before it can be accomplished. I guess this is Islam making their Prophets Heroes, because they didn't like the bad ending to the story and decided to make it a happy ending, lol.

So all Muslims have it completey wrong too, and Muhammad was wrong, which means he was lying about his meeting with Gabriel who commanded him the Koran. This means all of Islam is one big farce.

And Christianity too.

Because, devout Monotheists who started this whole thing were REALLY secret ancient Sun worshippers of Egypt and want to secretly pass on their symbolism of the Sun crossing the sky in a special, particular way, and whipped up two entire new Religions about someone that never existed so they could hide this "Sun Crossing" symbolism. I'm being sarcastic if you cannot tell.

Because, the Sun crossing the sky in a special way is significant and so important to pass on, even though secretly so no one ever actually knows what we really mean, yeah. This is sounding stupider and stupider. because Horus made babies with Isis after they killed Annubis, and since the English word Sun and Son are simarly spelled but of 2 different things, the Sun must really be the Son, of man! Jesus! *has a divine revelation*
Even though, when Jesus walked the streets of Jerusalem, English didn't exist in its current understandable form? And those words didnt mean that? Uh..

The Bible is not an historically accurate document. Mohammed took alot of the ideals from both the old and new testament and put his own ideologies to come up with his movement . But that still does not prove that its accurate in any way.

Its impossible for people to part seas with there hands or to walk on water or to float up to the heavens with a smile on their face. These books were primarily used, notice I said "used" not "written" to control the masses through fear based good and evil concepts.

The Gospels have great teachings we all should be aware of but Jesus himself did not write them. Did Jesus really exist? Hopefully he did, but we still dont know, because of basically outside the bible there are no historical references to him. Josephus never directly referred to him and his documents are still considered unproven.

[edit on 3-12-2007 by luxor311]

[edit on 3-12-2007 by luxor311]

my take is (from reading and watching the world around) is that not only if Jesus didn’t exist but also that the entire old testament as been bowered from the Sumerian and the Babylonian.
The funny thing about all this religion stuff is how can people believe that a all powerful God will only choice one particle tribe to spread the message when it is logical to believe that if God so powerful will have spread the message universally and instantly with no discrepancy to all human kind so that every one will have the same message with out any interference from clerics of any branches of the Abramic religion.
But again they will all tell me that God moves are mysterious.

Kacou

reply to post by luxor311


josephus never directly referred to the one named "jesus"?read the antiquities of the jews ---book 18/chapter3:3 page 480 my copy of josephus.

reply to post by sinthia


Yasha the One the world names jesus Exists---exodus 3:13-14-------------according to the apostle john---------chapter 1:1-14----------He is the same member of the G-D family that created the universe and all life.we are a part of His creation-----and what we believe either right or wrong He is going to return and prevent us from totally destroying ourselves and this planet with our wars and pollutions.

Originally posted by sinthia
If we are to believe the notion that Jesus didn't exist, and that he was mearly a symbol for the story of the solar year (a ridiculous idea if you actually look into it), then the muslim people must be wasting their time assuming that Jesus will return on judgement day. Just thought i'd mention it

Actually Muslims are wasting their time anyway. The devils who inspired the quran were retarded enough to claim they also inspired the torah and the prophets when they turn and completely contradict what the law and prophets declares.

It's utter foolishness. They are just religious people and don't give a flying hoot for the truth, if they did they wouldn't be Muslims.

The whole mess is a joke.

reply to post by WiseSheep


I couldn’t agree more with you!
But you forget to include the New Testament and the Old Testament, meaning that all Abramic religion are delusion.
Maybe only the Buddhist could be close to some kind of universal truth.


Kacou

Originally posted by kacou
I couldn’t agree more with you!
But you forget to include the New Testament and the Old Testament, meaning that all Abramic religion are delusion.
Maybe only the Buddhist could be close to some kind of universal truth.


Kacou

So you view truth as something that suites everybody? If that case were true, we could make it the truth.

Originally posted by runetang
right, Jesus didn't exist according to the Zeitgeist groupies,

...i'm not a zeitgeist groupie. i actually have been saying that the existence of jesus is questionable for quite a while now, prior to the release of zeitgeist

and yet, all three of the major Monotheistic, Abrahamic Religions of the World acknowledge he existed, and 2 of them consider him to be elevated in spiritual status greatly (Christianity / Islam).

logical fallacy of argument ad populum

the story of Jesus is in the Koran, it's just a tiny bit different. Mainly, at the end, they only plot to crucify Jesus, but God "takes him up into heaven" before it can be accomplished. I guess this is Islam making their Prophets Heroes, because they didn't like the bad ending to the story and decided to make it a happy ending, lol.

yes, it's clear that mohammed had exposure to the gospels.

So all Muslims have it completey wrong too, and Muhammad was wrong, which means he was lying about his meeting with Gabriel who commanded him the Koran. This means all of Islam is one big farce.

And Christianity too.

...this is why your religion is so weak.
it rests upon it being factual truth instead of spiritual and allegorical truth.
the buddhist religion wouldn't fall if buddha was wrong, it would PROSPER.


deleted whole thing on zeitgeist because it's not in reference to me...

here's my question: where's the damn evidence the jesus existed?

reply to post by WiseSheep


I wouldn’t not call it truth, but half truth. I like to believe that each of us (Muslim, Christian, Jew, atheist and the rest) have some percentage of truth lying deep inside of our inner-self.
Kacou

Muslims believe that God has send prophets through out time. I heared that Conficus also said something about someone coming after him and something about jesus too even in the bible.

reply to post by tomcat ha


could you show me where confuscius said this?

Originally posted by luxor311
Its impossible for people to part seas with there hands or to walk on water or to float up to the heavens with a smile on their face. These books were primarily used, notice I said "used" not "written" to control the masses through fear based good and evil concepts.

Are you denying Exodus? It's a yes or no question.

People cannot do that, but intelligent beings / angels / God / aliens can hypothetically do that, and thats what the text states happened. God parted the sea for Moses, and the Jewish exiles.

God was with Moses the whole time, remember? Burning Bush?

i'm burning some bush?



[edit on 12/3/2007 by runetang]

Originally posted by madnessinmysoul

...i'm not a zeitgeist groupie. i actually have been saying that the existence of jesus is questionable for quite a while now, prior to the release of zeitgeist

I am aware of this. But isn't it pushing the envelope just to aggravate? You can question Jesus existence, sure. 2000 years from now, people would question your existence, should someone say "once upon a time madnessinmysoul was a person who advocated atheism on a website called abovetopsecret.", people would indeed doubt and say "wheres the evidence?" and since you weren't anyone super particularly famous, none of your works or belongings were kept, lets say hypothetically.

you are now Jesus in the flesh. how are you going to be remembered 2000 years from now? I think Jesus has a one up on you madness, because he has millions and millions of people not even questioning that he lived, gave that which he gave in teachings and in his flesh, and even that he will come flying in from the sky one day to make things alright, just because he said he would 2000 years ago. Show me a single man of this caliber on Earth today and I will concede the argument. Why is it that all of the locations of all of the events in the New Testament throughout Jerusalem have been excavated, with actual items being taken back to Constantinople or Rome by Constantine's Momma, Helen I believe. And she was led to these sites by her men to dig and excavate by the locals, only a few hundred years after the events. You know, here in Virginia a few hundred years ago there was a battle in Yorktown that decided the face of this nation and you know what? That battlefield has a location, and it was carried on, not with technology, disks or files, but word of mouth and primitive means of the late 1700s, and on to today for us to visit. would you question that saying where are the surrender papers, this never happened until I see them? My point is that even people without technology and much education compared to todays standards can keep tabs on what significant events happened where, particularly if it was just a few hundred years after they happened. If those events didnt happen, tell me, what were the writers of the new testament smoking, but more importantly what were the people that led Helen and her men to these locations of these events smoking? And how did they find relics in these spots that corroborate this?

...this is why your religion is so weak.
it rests upon it being factual truth instead of spiritual and allegorical truth.
the buddhist religion wouldn't fall if buddha was wrong, it would PROSPER.

my religion rests upon it being factual truth with the expected and unavoidable mistakes through translations, rewritings, and even possible tamperings. it is the faithfuls job to weed out the things he feels in his heart are not supposed to be there. and it his obligation to read the texts he feels shouldnt have been removed from the bible either. like the otherside of a coin, it is also completely busting as the seams with spiritual and allegorical truth. All of Jesus' teachings were parables, which are similar to allegories. my religion teaches how to live happily and peacefully, not because you have your material selfish desires fulfilled, but because you've been taught that you dont need that to be happy. when you are truly content and at peace with yourself you are happy, and my religion teaches how to do this.

I dont even want to bust out quotes from 1st or 2nd Corinthians of Paul teaching wise, relevant things even unto this day regarding carrying oneself socially. I dont need to quote Jesus' many parables. It's just too much. And only you can want to read it. I am not going to make you. Maybe you can respect me for that.

well considering the buddhists are expecting the reincarnation of buddha in the flesh soon, I read, I think they'd be much disappointed if the one they picked and said was buddha refused them because he was autistic and didnt understand what he was turning down, and didnt play along like all the other young, blissful and non-understanding children that were selected in the past. this goes to the hindu traditions of revering children as incarnations of gods and goddesses.

here's my question: where's the damn evidence the jesus existed?

well, i cant quite answer it decisively, but maybe you can help me with an unrelated question.

where is the damn evidence that the revolutionary battlefield at yorktown, virginia, where cornwallace surrendered, is where the battle really took place? I mean, it could've easily have taken place exactly 1/2 a mile to the north, west, south, or east instead, and this patch of grass that I see could just be some old field. wheres the evidence? i mean, i need something rock solid.

Dont show me the surrender papers or the constitution or anything like that because it could be a fake. Just like you'd say if someone did try to give you a physical proof of Jesus once existing..

[edit on 12/3/2007 by runetang]