Russian workers told where, how to vote

Russian workers told where, how to vote

news.yahoo.com

With the Kremlin determined to see a high turnout in Sunday's election, many Russians say they are being pressured to vote at work under the watchful eyes of their bosses or risk losing their jobs...
...The constitution requires Putin to step down as president in May, but with the support of the majority of Russians he could claim a popular mandate to retain power.

(visit the link for the full news article)

It would appear the real Putin is surfacing. With all the chest pounding he has been doing I can't say this is unexpected. Looks like the bad old days of "The Evil Empire" are here once more. I wonder how long before the longs lines for bread or toilet paper reappear?

news.yahoo.com
(visit the link for the full news article)

I heard about this yesterday, for all I know Putin party is an all favorite to win this election so I don't see why they would turn to this and other forms of voter fraud tactics if is not for the purpose of obtaining such a solid majority that he would claim that the "people" wants hume to stay in power.

Apparently he needs more than a majority to pull off keeping his office in spite of the Constitution. He needs a super majority to justify a mandate of the people to get away with not leaving office or giving up control.

There is something smelly about this whole thing and it started with Putin's armpits when he was running around without a shirt showing what a virile man he is.

[edit on 11/27/2007 by Blaine91555]

This speech may give the answer one way or the other.

Source Article
Reports that Vladimir Putin has prepared a statement to be broadcast to the nation on November 29 has fueled speculation that the message might contain the answer to the "2008 question" -- and whether that could mean the president's resignation...
...Federation Council Chairman Sergei Mironov speculated in the run-up to the November 26 session that Putin could run in the March election if he resigns as president before the council's resolution is officially published. Mironov cited Article 3, Section 5 of the election law, which states that a citizen who holds the office of president of the Russian Federation for a second consecutive term on the day of the official publication of the date of the election cannot be elected president.

Sounds like we may have the answer shortly? It will be interesting to see how this all plays out.

It would appear the real Putin is surfacing. With all the chest pounding he has been doing I can't say this is unexpected. Looks like the bad old days of "The Evil Empire" are here once more. I wonder how long before the longs lines for bread or toilet paper reappear?

What does elections and wanting a high voter turnout have to do with the former Soviet Union?

Absolutely nothing.

I fail to see how you made any link between the two.

Yes, he is very popular amongst his people, and yes, he may get re-elected. I don't see an issue with that.

And the fear of being discriminated against at work due to your political preference is a VERY real issue here in the western world... the fact that Russia has the same issue just shows how similar their country is to ours.

reply to post by johnsky


I'm not flaming the Russian People. You seem touchy for some reason. I did not write the articles but it is obvious there is a concern that Russian Leaders may want the old ways back. Russia is not exactly awash in money and if they start pouring it into the Military again the People will suffer. It is not exactly a difficult formula. Obviously the Old Guard will not return entirely but any semblance of Democracy may disappear. The first step would be an end run around the Constitution. 1+1 does = 2. There is not enough money in play to support a massive military build up and the infrastructure at the same time. Peoples shelves are not exactly filled with Russian Made Goods.

It is interesting how the party start to matter again in Russia, and for some reason or other Putin appears very cautious, despite being far in the lead. As for the general tone of this article - the situation is very overstated and the article does not represent reality. This article gives a deceptive view of Russian politics, by making it appear as if something terrible is happening. Never mind that this is what Russian politics are and were. But watch how many people here are going to pounce on Putin and bring Soviet Union into the picture, because of a biased and bull**** article.


Now for the realistic stuff:

A year ago Putin had almost no direct affiliation with the United Russia party. The party was affiliated with him in that it echoed his policies, but he did not run it, nor was he even a member of it. The party simply fed of him, and was a popular political vehicle for people to climb to power. Many powerful politicians in United Russia oppose Putin, but in public appear to support him. The party is nothing but a loose alliance of opportunists. Now Putin seems to tie himself closer with the party, likely keeping his eye past his Presidency, and on the Russian parliament.

What's interesting is that Putin might come in conflict with those who led the party before, and there might be a major reshuffling of the entire parliament - not just United Russia but all parties. Most Russian parties today are loose alliances with very differing views within them.

I think this is where Putin's paranoia comes from. It is about reshuffling of the government, and possibility of overt U.S. involvement, like there was in Ukraine and Georgia.

Putin's goal in all this is to preserve his policies, which his presidency was centered around. He hardly finished all he set out to finish, but he has made progress. He is afraid that a reshuffling may result in opposition coming to power through an alliance. This opposition could backtrack on his progress, and turn Russia back into an Yeltsin-like oligarchy or a god-knows-what.




This has nothing to do with Soviet Union, evil dictators, or communism. This is simply Russian politics.

Give a nescient and uninitiated person a biased article with little background information, and you will see opinions that have little to do with reality, and everything to do with aversive predisposition.

[edit on 27-11-2007 by maloy]

reply to post by maloy


That makes more sense

Reminiscent of the "Chicken Little" articles about Bush as though he were a Dictator of some kind. Thank you for the insight.

Are there any reliable sources for Russian news that have an English version?

I'm still going to keep a bit of mistrust in my mind due to the treatment of the Media under Putin. Is the part about him possibly resigning so he can run again sensible at all?

Originally posted by Blaine91555
Russian Leaders may want the old ways back.

What does a Parliamentary propaganda centered around political reshuffling have to do with the "old ways" or communism? You could just as well tie the events to Nazism, but then you would qualify for the Godwin's Law.

Originally posted by Blaine91555
Russia is not exactly awash in money and if they start pouring it into the Military again the People will suffer.

Well thank god they are not pouring it into the military and have no intention to. Russia does however realize a need for proper national defense given its vast territorial size.

Originally posted by Blaine91555
It is not exactly a difficult formula. Obviously the Old Guard will not return entirely but any semblance of Democracy may disappear.

The only way the "Old Guard" can return is if Putin has resurrection potions to bring them back from the dead. Unfortunately I don't think even Putin has the capabilities to make it happen. But wouldn't you love to see Zombie Communists vs. Zombie Regan. And it would be kind of hard for democracy to disappear, given that there never really was democracy in Russia.

Originally posted by Blaine91555
The first step would be an end run around the Constitution.

Thankfully in that respect Russia is a few steps behind U.S. - in terms of altering its own constitution that is.

Originally posted by Blaine91555
There is not enough money in play to support a massive military build up and the infrastructure at the same time. Peoples shelves are not exactly filled with Russian Made Goods.

An economy centered around manufacturing goods is well representative of Third World countries. There are hardly many goods in the world "made in the USA" either, except for weapons of course. So why should Russia focus on manufacturing, when it can focus on services, national resources, and military technology? Why strive for a Third World economy based on manufacturing, when one should strive to develop competitive advantages in alternative fields.

Originally posted by Blaine91555
Are there any reliable sources for Russian news that have an English version?

You best bet for Russian-centered media view would be Itar Tass.

www.itar-tass.com...

Of course it is also propagandistic and biased in a way, like all other national news agencies around the world. But its twist along with that of BBC or some Western agency would give you an idea that the truth is somewhere in the middle.

Originally posted by Blaine91555
I'm still going to keep a bit of mistrust in my mind due to the treatment of the Media under Putin. Is the part about him possibly resigning so he can run again sensible at all?

If by resigning you mean leave office when his term is over - than there is no indication that he won't. As for what happens after - thats anyone's guess. He will likely run for Parliament and be elected to head United Russia or some other party that will replace it. After that, he could run for Presidency, and it would be completely legal as long as it is not consequtive to his current term.

Predicting modern Russian politics is very difficult if not impossible, and shouldn't be done unless you have a good comprehension of it. I wouldn't predict anything at this point, further than Putin running for Parliament.

[edit on 27-11-2007 by maloy]

reply to post by maloy


Are you saying the elections in Russia are absolutely honest and nobody is intimidated into voting a certain way?

Although the US has nothing to do with this thread whatsoever, we have replaced Manufacturing with selling Services and Information. That is where the money and power is. Everyone has a job and nearly 8 million jobs are open and can not be filled. What are the facts regarding Russia? How much unemployment is there? What is the average Household Income? What percentage of the budget goes to the Military and what percentage of the Budget does it represent? Those are the types of information that would reveal the true state of the Russian Economy. Not Political Bickering by Pundits who say anything to back their Candidate. Do Russian Citizens live in Houses they own or small Apartments owned by others? What percentage of their incomes go to housing? Food? Utilities? How many cars does each home have? Can the average home afford a Computer, HDTV, Cable TV or other luxuries? Those facts reveal reality.

[edit on 11/27/2007 by Blaine91555]

[edit on 11/27/2007 by Blaine91555]

Originally posted by maloy

If by resigning you mean leave office when his term is over - than there is no indication that he won't.

Now I understand. You did not read the second article so we are not on the same page.

The news source Maloy posted is quite telling. Its worth taking a look. All negative articles are about Russia's perceived enemies and anything to do with Russian Government or Russia is positive and as pristine as if the Government were doing the actual writing of the Articles. It is really strange to these American eyes that are used to seeing lots of negatives about the Government and actual debate about whether news is good or not.

Originally posted by Blaine91555
Are you saying the elections in Russia are absolutely honest and nobody is intimidated into voting a certain way?

Not at all. They are not honest, because the candidates are not honest, and feed people bullcrap. But so far there has been no indication from any sources that Russian elections are "rigged" by anyone. But in terms of "powers that be" putting candidates on a pedestal for the people to elect, it is very common. Yeltsin was elected this way, and so was Putin. So nothing changed. And the only thing people are really intimidated about is the future, mostly economic future.

Originally posted by Blaine91555
Although the US has nothing to do with this thread whatsoever, we have replaced Manufacturing with selling Services and Information.

That's my point.

Originally posted by Blaine91555
What are the facts regarding Russia? How much unemployment is there?

The elderly and those who lived most of their life under communism are pretty bad off, because of issues with pension conversions. Everyone else is managing along without complaining. 90's were tough, but situation improved alot. As for unemployement - it is not much different from Europe, and there are fairly generous unemployement benefits.

Originally posted by Blaine91555
What is the average Household Income? What percentage of the budget goes to the Military and what percentage of the Budget does it represent?

You can likely find that in CIA World Factbook.

But with income you have to consider that food and energy prices are considerably lower than in the West, income taxes are very low, and property taxes are almost nonexistant.

And the military budget and percentage are far lower than during the Cold War. Any bolstering to the military budget comes mostly from new government profits in the energy industry, not at the expense of the population.

Originally posted by Blaine91555
Do Russian Citizens live in Houses they own or small Apartments owned by others?

Most people in cities own apartments, and outside cities mostly small houses - there is almost no land-lord based system. Some people rent out rooms in their apartments to others.

Originally posted by Blaine91555
What percentage of their incomes go to housing? Food? Utilities?

As I said- once you buy a house/apartment you practically do not pay taxes on it. Most of the income goes on food and utilities and other goods.

Originally posted by Blaine91555
How many cars does each home have?

One usually. Public transportation is so well developed that you only really need a car if you are going outside of the city or to haul something.

Originally posted by Blaine91555
Can the average home afford a Computer, HDTV, Cable TV or other luxuries? Those facts reveal reality.

Sure. In the cities it is really not that different from US or Europe - except as I said for those who are retired, because of conversion from communism created problems. Visit Moscow or St. Petersburg and you won't see many differences with London, Paris, New York, Berlin, etc.

In is a little worse in the countryside, but everyone is gradually crawling up more or less.

[edit on 27-11-2007 by maloy]

Originally posted by Blaine91555
Now I understand. You did not read the second article so we are not on the same page.

Ah I see what you mean. It is a rumor, but it seems very outrageous, although not technically impossible. I seriously doubt anything will happen along these lines, because the people in Russia are not morons and most understand what is going on.

The constitution can be viewed with ambiguity and bypassed in a way if this happens, but the popularity factor is at stake. The thing is, most people want Putin's policies to continue, but without Putin. That is they want a successor from his party, but they are cautious of putting all trust in one man. So far he has adhered to the constitution however, and there are few indications that he plans to do otherwise.

Originally posted by Blaine91555
It is really strange to these American eyes that are used to seeing lots of negatives about the Government and actual debate about whether news is good or not.

Since Communism (hell - since the tzar), Russians have been accustomed that leadership is not criticized through official media sources such as newspaper or tv. Most such criticism took place through rumors, anecdotes, private chats, small social meetings, and small private publications. And make no msitake - such criticism actually spread very fast and in the long-term was just as effective as tv or newspapers would have been. Russians have grown accustomed to critize leadership through alternative means, and because you see nothing in the news does not mean people are not aware.

There are tons of Russian websites with real criticism, but all that I know are in Russian.

Itar-Tass is just for comparison with BBC. Sure it gives only positives about the administration, but then BBC gives only negatives. As I said its ying and yang.

[edit on 27-11-2007 by maloy]

Thank you very much for the information Maloy. I have a better picture now. Sounds like Russia is not really that dissimilar to the US. I've always thought it was Education that brought down the wall rather than Military Might. Educate a People and you can no longer dominate them.

After more searching I want to add that I now believe these articles are true. Putin has a lot in common with Chavez. Once a leader takes control of the media they are a defacto Dictator. I find it odd there is no interest in the demise of the new Freedoms in Russia.

I'd like to point out that Putin has gone on record to say he will not seek re-election in 2008, but may consider it at a later date (after 2008).

I have to agree with maloy and say this is nothing to do with communism or creating a dictatorship. He's had many occasions to change the constitution, heck, even parliament openly said they would support a move. Putin rejected it.

Being an ATS member, I will keep an open mind, but we are far from the Soviet Union.