Iraq Dossier

Mad S,

I know, and I'm sorry if you feel offended, that's not what I intended to do. I just wanted to say that the reasons AR mentioned for an Iraq invasion are invalid.
And more peoples agree with me, if not, the invasion would have taken place long time ago.

Peace !

sorry...posted in error....

[Edited on 12-12-2002 by Affirmative Reaction]

You are entirely correct about DU not being ruled out as a possible cause, but as I stated, it has not been proven either. In order to place the blame on DU, which I don�t deny is some nasty stuff when used in explosives and armor that is hit by same, there needs to be an appreciable increase in the types of illnesses and deformities that you describe. There hasn�t been documentation of huge increases, to my knowledge, and I don�t trust propaganda spreading agencies that have one agenda to give me facts. They usually are abominations of the truth.

Still, your post and my original were miles apart. We weren�t on the same page at all. My reasons are entirely valid, and you didn't address them at all, simply posted different material. However, I appreciate your point by point reply. It was coherent, and not inflammatory at all. Quite a refreshing change from the �Anti-everything� posts that seem to permeate the board�


[Edited on 12-12-2002 by Affirmative Reaction]

[Edited on 12-12-2002 by Affirmative Reaction]

"Lets just have Bout time and Lupe award Sadam Hussien the nobal peace prize..He sounds like a Saint..when you guys are done with him!"

thats a clear demonstration of the polarity with which people are being trained to view saddam.

I have a strange feeling that if I were to ask 100 Americans who was responsible for Sep 11 I'd get a number of them saying "Iraq"

Saddam has been Demonised by the press, but I see little evidence saying he's done any more bad things than countless other leaders we aren't attacking, our own included.

The Guy isn't a saint. But he's not a demon either.

He's a man. Hes in my opinion a bad man, and as soon as somone demonstrates to me that his WMD's are more dangerous than americas WMD's and proves that he's about to blow up London or New york with one then I'll join the war campaign.

unfortunately its looking increasingly like he hasn't got any, and if he has he's still not threatened to use them on us.

So if he's not satan incarnate.....
and he doesn't pose a threat to us....
and he's not any more of a threat to his people or the people in surrounding countrys than a country we're not attacking....say.....Korea....
and he doesn't have any WMD's..........

will somone tell me why we're about to spend several trillion dollars and a lot of peoples lives on a war with him?

Especially after the North Koreas issue a statement like this:

news.bbc.co.uk...

Basically saying they are going to power up their old reactors and overtly renew their nuclear program. What's America gonna do now? Technically, the North and South are still at war, they only have a 50 year old armstice, as opposed to a peace treaty. US soldiers and their allies are definately within range of the Korean WMD, making it a much larger threat that Iraq is.

Originally posted by Bout Time
That explains and gives all the insight I need. Best of luck & Godspeed.

So, what are you trying to say here? Come on, speak up...no guts, no glory...speak your mind...

Originally posted by Affirmative Reaction

Originally posted by Bout Time
That explains and gives all the insight I need. Best of luck & Godspeed.

So, what are you trying to say here? Come on, speak up...no guts, no glory...speak your mind...

I don't want you of any other opinion than the one you now profess; the chain of command is without question.
Rational , critical thought is not something you're entitled to till you finish your tour.
Then you can join the real world and be introduced to the shades of gray!

Boomslang - Lupe answered well for both of us...I'll just add that maybe the VA doc is not coming exactly clean with you....it sounds like you need a fronlobalturdectomy to me!
But seriously, I don't think we need to
a) be the world police - we might actually do better to let some of these nations cap each off and move in for the spoils

b) Pre-emptive warfare in decimating a country that 'might-be-someday-have-this-or-that' will get US involved in crap we don't need to be messing with ALL OVER THE WORLD!!!
I really don't want to see my nephews blown assunder in the 'Rice Wars' between Mainland & Taiwan because Georgy boy said 'we'll protect them' to Taiwan, do you?

Originally posted by Bout Time


I don't want you of any other opinion than the one you now profess; the chain of command is without question.
Rational , critical thought is not something you're entitled to till you finish your tour.
Then you can join the real world and be introduced to the shades of gray!

?

You see, now you are showing your absolute ignorance. If I can read your garbled grammar correctly, you have labeled me as an automaton who follows the ideology of my superiors blindly. Wrong answer, num-nuts. Because your closed minded ideas and conspiracy theory paranoia wont allow you to believe that someone in a position such as mine could form his/her own opinion, you show your true colors. Do I follow the �Lawful orders� of my superiors? Yes. Would I follow an �Unlawful order� just because a superior gave it? No. I have been trained to know the difference, and have the DUTY to apply my judgment in those cases.

Do I agree with everything the President says just because he is the CINC? No! Case in point, some believe we should just go into Iraq and take Saddam and his regime out before the inspectors finish their job. I do not. I believe that proof must be shown, whether it comes from the UN, or the White House, before we do what may need to be done.

I have been a part of every conflict since 1985, from the Gulf, to Bosnia, to the war on drugs in South America, and I can tell you, very few American servicemen relish war. We don�t like being away from our families, out homes, and our country. We don't like living in tents in the desert or the jungle, fighting not only the enemy, but also mother nature. So if you think we are all into blind obedience, you are wrong. Stick THAT in your pipe and smoke it.

My grammar was flip, not proper, but definitely applicable.
I know there was room to assume over generalization there, so let me clarify. Disobeying an order for a direct field action, let's say shooting kids, is of course yours, by code, to disobey. But given the fact that we are at war in every facet but ground offensives, would you disobey an order to attack the enemy? Of course not. It might very well be proven that there is not a verifiable reason to start the war, but it's going to happen anyway.
Servicemen hate war but love to be utilized and to apply what they've been trained for.

Originally posted by Bout Time
My grammar was flip, not proper, but definitely applicable.
I know there was room to assume over generalization there, so let me clarify. Disobeying an order for a direct field action, let's say shooting kids, is of course yours, by code, to disobey. But given the fact that we are at war in every facet but ground offensives, would you disobey an order to attack the enemy? Of course not. It might very well be proven that there is not a verifiable reason to start the war, but it's going to happen anyway.
Servicemen hate war but love to be utilized and to apply what they've been trained for.

Flip, not proper, but definitely notapplicable. It was though, highly flammable, and definatly insulting. You insinuate that because I am a career military man, I cannot think for myself, and stumble blindly behind what ever person is placed above me in command. Not only is this untrue, it shows you ignorance of todays military. Our forces today are the best trained, equiped, and most educated force to ever grace the face of this planet.

I could turn the tables on you and say that because you are a civillian, you know nothing about military matters, matters of state, or terrorism. Of course, I have never, and will never say this, because it is totally untrue. There are many in the civillian sector who have educated themselves on these subjects, especially since 9/11. I just hope they haven't learned from you.

Although I may disagree with 99% of what you spew, I have dedicated my life to fighting to allow you to keep the right to say it, no matter how dense you sound when you say it...

"You insinuate that because I am a career military man, I cannot think for myself, and stumble blindly behind what ever person is placed above me in command. Not only is this untrue, it shows you ignorance of today's military. Our forces today are the best trained, equiped, and most educated force to ever grace the face of this planet. "

I agree with that 99%; I am very pro military, almost chose that career myself. Take this clearly and without misinterpretation: I hold the US military in the highest regard, have a long family history of career officers and for that reason, am highly critical of the mismanagement of world affairs by Bush and the harms way that family members and Americans are or will be put in because of it.

Maybe the third times the charm: regardless of your free thought, you will not and can not decide to avoid going into Iraq if so ordered, even if you come to the reason the CINC has stated to the world are false and without merit. That is what I meant.

You are very pro military? Dude, that's just an out and out lie. You proved that with the flippant one liner about giving you all the insight you need, and you continued it in your other posts about following orders. Now, you are back tracking like a dog who lost the scent because you have shown your true colors, and are trying to cloud the issue with references to GWB and your OPINION that he has flubbed in everything he does. YOU OPINION, not the opinion of the VAST MAJORITY of americans, as GWB STILL enjoys the highest approval rating of any president, including your philandering phlunky Billary Clinton. Nice try, no cigar...you laid the foundation early and showed your ass...now it's out in the cold...boo friggin' hoo for you...

Fine...whatever.
So much is lost on you that you are starting to make Ultra Pheonix sound cogent.
News Flash - people go into the military, they leave the military, they remember certain types in the military.
You, by no means, are representative of everything that is the US military, no one person ever is.......get over yourself.

Originally posted by Bout Time
Fine...whatever.
So much is lost on you that you are starting to make Ultra Pheonix sound cogent.
News Flash - people go into the military, they leave the military, they remember certain types in the military.
You, by no means, are representative of everything that is the US military, no one person ever is.......get over yourself.

Wow, now THERE's a news flash I can trash. You wouldn't know the military if it came up and bit you in the azz...damn, you're a moron...

Coming from you, that's a compliment! As long as I fall outside of your very narrow & unworldly perspective to warrant name calling, I must be kosher!
You're missing the gravy train boy, get out and sign up with Booze Allen, Brown & Root, Allied...you name it, as long as you're not a cook you'd prpbably make a killing!

Originally posted by Bout Time
Coming from you, that's a compliment! As long as I fall outside of your very narrow & unworldly perspective to warrant name calling, I must be kosher!
You're missing the gravy train boy, get out and sign up with Booze Allen, Brown & Root, Allied...you name it, as long as you're not a cook you'd prpbably make a killing!

Wow!!! Now yer insulting Chefs!!! Emiril is gonna kick yer azz too! And I dont have to call you names...you show your azz every day here...and your lack of knowledge is only outweighed by your "give 'em welfare till they die" liberal outlook on everything. Wake up, numb nuts...there's more to life than protesting the use of mice in research and smoking pot...

The problems the US has now is a result of Clinton's legacy. His cowardly lack of action when presented with the facts on Al-Qaeda and Iraq, is why George W is confronted with war today.
Clinton was the master of turning a blind to the most important matters and concentrating on issues which wouldn't cause ripples.
As I have said before, the world is used to Clinton's laziness, which is why they aren't quite ready for Bush. Bush is a man of action not a man of BS. The fact that Clinton was a draft dodger, explains it all.


PS.Dems can talk about his great economic management of Clinton's. However I'll let you in on a secret; Clinton's policies had minimal impact on the economy. The fact of the matter is the US economy is entwined with the whole world. If the world economy coughs then so does the US.