B-2 bombers practice on US targets

reply to post by Zaphod58

every system??
the only SAM system with regards to which ,this capability is in is the S-300PMU-2 and S-400 with the help of kolchuga or vega systems,as per what Almaz Antei,a mjor manufacturer of russian weapons says ....



[edit on 23-11-2007 by manson_322]

For the life of me I dont know what some of you are getting excited about.

I have known that US Submarines and also surface ships do simulated runs and simulated weapons releases on surface ships for years and years now. Mostly commercial ships. They do complete torpedo and missle launch sequence in simulation using computers.

I also know that US Fighter jets do simulated missle launchs using their computers and radar against commercial aircraft. They do a complete radar lock on and simulated weapons release and track to target. Been going on for years now. I have known all this for years .. and every time I get on a commercial airliner. What world are some of you folks living in.

I also know and have seen the navigation maps showing a navigation route that the military uses from up north around Pennsylvania down to Alabama some where..through the mountains. Several people I know have told me that their homes up in the mountains are often buzzed at low levels by Military aircraft using this route on simulated runs. This is a navigation course using various altitudes, initial points etc. It has been there for years and apparently still in use.

Another of these routes runs north to south through the Rockies.

Why would it be a surprise to simulate runs against a US Navy Base??

Orangetom

Originally posted by Zaphod58
Russia, China, North Korea, Iran.... Just to name a few. And Pearl Harbor is a MILITARY port. So the USAF is practicing to attack the USN? So just because they're practicing to attack ships, using a military port, which is better than a civilian port, they're planning to attack the US?

This has been going on for YEARS. If they were going to attack US cities why bother using B-2s? Simply file flight plans for the bombers, get them using approved IFF codes from Air Traffic Control and they could go anywhere they wanted to and no one would bat an eye.

Just wanted to point out that the B-2s were bombing the Big Island (as in the Island of Hawaii). The were not bombing the island of O'ahu, which is where Pearl Harbor is located.

BTW the range is in a great place for bombing. It already looks like a moonscape.

Big Island is the best island in the chain IMHO.

Originally posted by MikeboydUS
B-2 bombers practice on US targets

In other news, the Dallas Cowboys practice for their upcoming game with Green Bay at their training camp in Vally Ranch. The Steelers are unwilling to let them practice in Pittsburgh.

This is a no-brainer article isn't it? Since when do countries build bombers and let them sit without testing them? I was stationed at a B-1 Bomber base for 4 years, and they flew training, bombing missions daily with dozens of planes. The only thing in the article I found intersting was the following note about simulated bombing runs on Pearl Harbor.

On the way back from Pohakuloa, the bombers launched a simulated attack on Pearl Harbor to practice targeting naval assets.

B2 Bomber testing.

It makes sense for them to practice attacking Pearl Harbor though. It's on the flight path back to Anderson, they're going to be hitting tankers somewhere near Oahu (they'll launch KC-135s out of Hickam), and it's a great training opportunity for the Navy AND the B-2 flight crews. The only thing is that I guarantee that the B-2s weren't able to go full out against the ships in Pearl. The approach path for Honolulu International flies directly over the seaward end of the Pearl Harbor channel. They're not going to let B-2s fly around with all systems going with a very large number of airliners flying approach to the airport in the area.

Every part of the military practices what they are paid to do. I don't like how this thread was written in a way to scare people into thinking the US is practicing for bombing operations on its own people. I also don't like how other members think we are going to attack China, Iran, or Russia.

Maybe those countries are preparing to attack the US first, but that idea won't even pop into most of the minds on this site since it makes the US look like the victim. Either way none of us know for sure so why bother?

I also like the talk about the SAMs. I am sure that most of you have no idea of the technical data of those systems. So you can play armchair general all you want, but don't act like you know since any info like that is classified and it won't ever make it to forums like this. That is another "why bother" idea but I guess people have nothing better to do then talk about things they don't know anything about.

This isn't an attack on any of you, but it is an attack on the ignorance that is all over this site. Base your ideas on the facts and you will see how much time is wasted talking about nothing. Take a college class or do something productive that will help mankind out. That would be the first step you ever take in understanding how to make a difference. Posting ideas or making up threads that are based on fiction only slow things down.

Originally posted by manson_322
and what ?? then end up being targets for Kochulga M passive antistealth radar ...

Hmmmm do you have any references for this all seeing all powerfull radar? I googled the sucker and have nothing but this thread and blogs. None of the other sites like FAs.org or globalsecurity have anything on this super radar. So I have to chalk it up as Russian mythology untill proven otherwise.

On the other hand, why is B-2 using US cities to practice an issue? For those who have ever seen a B-52 screaming across the frozen tundra of the US midwest at 500 feet, this stuff occurs all the time. They have to practice somewhere.

Originally posted by NJ Mooch
Every part of the military practices what they are paid to do. I don't like how this thread was written in a way to scare people into thinking the US is practicing for bombing operations on its own people. I also don't like how other members think we are going to attack China, Iran, or Russia.

Maybe those countries are preparing to attack the US first, but that idea won't even pop into most of the minds on this site since it makes the US look like the victim. Either way none of us know for sure so why bother?

I also like the talk about the SAMs. I am sure that most of you have no idea of the technical data of those systems. So you can play armchair general all you want, but don't act like you know since any info like that is classified and it won't ever make it to forums like this. That is another "why bother" idea but I guess people have nothing better to do then talk about things they don't know anything about.

This isn't an attack on any of you, but it is an attack on the ignorance that is all over this site. Base your ideas on the facts and you will see how much time is wasted talking about nothing. Take a college class or do something productive that will help mankind out. That would be the first step you ever take in understanding how to make a difference. Posting ideas or making up threads that are based on fiction only slow things down.

What are you talking about? I did not write anything about our bombers being trained to bomb our own people. My concern is about it being a message to Russia. Why would the news even cover the story unless they want someone out there to know: " hey we can bomb your ports and fleets". It wasnt for domestic consumption, people in the US could care less about news. It was a message to someone. Exactly who I dont know, but I suspect Russia.

The news story is from the Associated Press not fiction and I am a full time college student in addition to having almost 8 years of service in the military. Mazal Tov



[edit on 24/11/07 by MikeboydUS]

I looked through the posts again and i'll retract my statement about this thread being written to scare people. I hope everyone reads this and understands that.

I still don't like that anyone thinks we are going to attack China, Russia, or Iran. Since you served time in the military I think you might have an idea of what the US can do, but I don't know what your job was or your experience level. I won't assume anything but I am glad that you served.

So do you think that the US is practicing for an attack on Russia? I don't know if that is true or false, but i'm more interested in knowing why you may think this.

reply to post by MikeboydUS


Sorry to be a bore but I think you will find that the Chinese have recently puchased three ex-Russian Supercarriers and are currently building troopships at a prodigeous rate.
Regards,
Horsegiver.

Originally posted by NJ Mooch
I looked through the posts again and i'll retract my statement about this thread being written to scare people. I hope everyone reads this and understands that.

I still don't like that anyone thinks we are going to attack China, Russia, or Iran. Since you served time in the military I think you might have an idea of what the US can do, but I don't know what your job was or your experience level. I won't assume anything but I am glad that you served.

So do you think that the US is practicing for an attack on Russia? I don't know if that is true or false, but i'm more interested in knowing why you may think this.

I dont think we are practicing for an actual attack. Since the story came out after Russian nuclear forces went on alert in response to NATO, my opinion is it was a response of somekind to Russian actions. I wouldn't be surprised if the AP had been invited to cover the B-2 training.

Originally posted by horsegiver
reply to post by MikeboydUS

 

Sorry to be a bore but I think you will find that the Chinese have recently puchased three ex-Russian Supercarriers and are currently building troopships at a prodigeous rate.
Regards,
Horsegiver.

and not a single one of those Carriers is operational yet. From what Ive heard the US Navy doesnt expect them to be up and fully operational until 2010.

Originally posted by horsegiver
Sorry to be a bore but I think you will find that the Chinese have recently puchased three ex-Russian Supercarriers and are currently building troopships at a prodigeous rate.
Regards,
Horsegiver.

They bought ONE Russian carrier, the ex-Varyag and it's expected to be operational by 2008-2009. Russia never BUILT three carriers. They never even built a nuclear powered carrier, let alone a supercarrier. They have the Kuznetzsov, which is a ski-jump carrier, similar to what the RN uses. The Varyag was a similar design, and similar size. It was never operational, and was recently sold to China, who are in the process of restoring it. The ONLY super carrier that they ALMOST built was the Ul'yanovsk, and it was only a 75,000 tonner. The Nimitz class are 100,000 tons.

The Leningrad, Minsk, and Ul'yanovsk were scrapped in 1992. The Leningrad was a Moskva class, built in 1967 and didn't even have a full flight deck.

The Minsk was a Kiev class, 40,000 tonner that started as a cruiser design IIRC.

The Ul'yanovsk had her keel laid down in 1988, and was never worked on again after the 1991 coup.

Novorossiysk, another of the Kievs was scrapped in 1993, and Kiev was scrapped in 1994. Moskva, the last of the Kievs was towed to the breakers in 1995.

I posted earlier the new ships that China has and is building. The ex-Varyag is their only carrier, but they're rumored to be working on a totally indiginous design to follow after.



[edit on 11/24/2007 by Zaphod58]

Originally posted by manson_322
reply to post by Zaphod58

 

and looking at stealth it is claimed that it is virtually invulnerable just because it was effectively used against third world countries whose SAM's are of 60's and 70's and easily jammable by ECM measures .....

As far as I know stealth was compromised during the Balkan war. The Russians helped Serbia shoot down a US stealth bomber, or so the theory goes. Also as far as I know the US continues to dismantle it's nuclear capabilities in accordance with shadow government directives to commit suicide by Russia.

www.worldaffairsbrief.com...

They shot down an F-117 in the Balkans. The problem is that the F-117s have had a new stealth coating applied since then, and the B-2s used a different type of coating all along, and the F-22 uses a DIFFERENT type of coating. The SERBS claim that they shot down a B-2, however the B-2 they claim to have shot down has been seen multiple times since it was "shot down".

reply to post by Zaphod58


Are you saying the new coat has 'fixed' the problem and the Russians can't detect this plane any more? I have no doubt that there are other more exotic technologies available than the F117 these days, most of which are classified at this point.

Of course there are, the B-2 and F-22. But the new coating on the F-117 was applied in a different way, and used newer materials, and made the Nighthawks stealthier. Whether it made them invisible to new systems no one knows for sure, but we DO know that it reduced the RCS to lower than it was with the previous coatings.

Seriously you guys..

PLAN carrier operational in the next couple of years?
And 3 super carriers?!!


linkies for all this?

Let see them take that Varyag out to sea first. Then add another 2-3 years to train the air wing and deck crew on live carrier ops. Then add another 5 to make the vessel a viable threat without it being a liability to the PLAN.
You don't just learn how to operate a carrier in a day...
or week or month or year for that matter!

The word 'operational' is a pun in itself. There's no use having a multi-billion dollar floating thing that you cannot operate effectively.
And that can ONLY happend with loads of open sea time.

Im sure most here know that all 'effective' carrier navies have had carrier experience from 30 years upwards.

The Chinese are now where the US and Britain were over 70 years ago.


Sure, one's got to start somewhere but its a steep learning curve with a lot of room for screwups. Especially when there's nobody willing to help you.

Whatever happened to that PLAN Su-33 purchase. Haven't heard much about that since it was all over the net.


EDIT:

The Ruskies could try their anti radar gizmos on the PAKFA
And Im sure the Americans would do the same with their LO toys..

[edit on 25-11-2007 by Daedalus3]

Originally posted by FredT

Originally posted by manson_322
and what ?? then end up being targets for Kochulga M passive antistealth radar ...

Hmmmm do you have any references for this all seeing all powerfull radar? I googled the sucker and have nothing but this thread and blogs. None of the other sites like FAs.org or globalsecurity have anything on this super radar. So I have to chalk it up as Russian mythology untill proven otherwise.

On the other hand, why is B-2 using US cities to practice an issue? For those who have ever seen a B-52 screaming across the frozen tundra of the US midwest at 500 feet, this stuff occurs all the time. They have to practice somewhere.

Hmmmm do you have any references for this all seeing all powerfull radar? I googled the sucker and have nothing but this thread and blogs. None of the other sites like FAs.org or globalsecurity have anything on this super radar.

the database on fas.org is outdated and not been updated since long
and yes the links are not available on google ,i have provided one below
or i advise you too
you should contact , siberian fox , the adminsitrator of politicsforum.org or kolzene or forties(the adminstrator of warfare.ru) , in my opinion best could be forties
he could further provide links with relation to ukrainan kolchuga or less powerful russian vega system and the
heres a good link on kolchuga :

www.hi-tech.org.ua...

So I have to chalk it up as Russian mythology untill proven otherwise.

using your logic stealth must be a myth too as it has only been used against 60 and 70 's SAM which are easily jammable by ECM

also the system is ukrianian , the russians have purchased some of these systems and integrated them into S-400 system

They bought 50 SU-33s, and they have laid down the no slip coating they put down before putting to sea. Seriously, I'm going by credible sources when I say that she'll be operational in the 2008-2009 timeframe.

In October of 2006, the Kommersant online newspaper in Moscow announced a deal between Russia and China where the Russians sell up to 50 Su-33 fighters to China for $2.5 billion. Details seem to indicate that China will spend $100 million to buy two Su-33 fighters from Komsomolsk-on-Amur Production Association for evaluation, with delivery expected in 2007. There appears to also be a fairly firm option for 12 more Su-33 fighters, with the potential for the deal to add another 36 SU-33s. In that event, the deal would total the $2.5 billion. The SU-33 fighter is the navalized version of the SU-27 fighter that China has purchased in large numbers from the Russians and now license builds themselves. It is the same fighter that the Russians use on their carrier, the Kuznetsov, which is the older sister ship to the Varyag. In addition, over the last two years, the Chinese have been negotiating with the Russians regarding the KA-31 helicopter, which is the helicopter the Russians use on their carrier for AEW duties. The Chinese have also introduced designs for prop-driven AEW aircraft of their own similar to the United States E-2 Hawkeye aircraft. The continuing efforts by the PLAN to obtain navalized, carrier fighters and AEW aircraft from Russia (or design their own), coupled with the recent completion of a non-skid surface on the flight deck of the Varyag, and its painting in official PLAN colors, make it abudnantly clear that this vessel, at some future date, will be China's first aircraft carrier.

www.jeffhead.com...

I only post things like this when I have VERIFIED them. If I don't verify them, I don't post them as facts. The FACT is that the ex-Varyag is getting closer and closer to operational. It won't take as long as you think to get her fully operational if they take delivery of the SU-33s and begin land based training with them, as the USN does.

[edit on 11/25/2007 by Zaphod58]