Saudi Arabia's soft stance on rape hits a new low

news.bbc.co.uk...

An appeal court in Saudi Arabia has doubled the number of lashes and added a jail sentence as punishment for a woman who was gang-raped.

The Arab News quoted an official as saying the judges had decided to punish the girl for trying to aggravate and influence the judiciary through the media. The victim's lawyer was suspended from the case, has had his licence to work confiscated, and faces a disciplinary session.

This one really makes me sick. As if it weren't bad enough that Saudi Arabia blames rape victims for the crimes committed against them, now it's a crime to appeal, or to provide legal counsel?

How can the US claim to have any kind of coherent "pro-freedom" policy in the middle east when we pay more attention to bombastic threats that can't be fulfilled (such as those from Iran) than we pay to governments which are all but sanctioning rape?

In my mind, safety from rape and the right to legal counsel and appeal are more closely tied to freedom than what a nations bed-side manner towards its neighbors is like or what a nation's military policies are.

I wonder if there is a count available somewhere of how many times current presidential candidates (including those who might like the support of organizations such as NOW or the League of Women Voters) have spoken on Iran's contested nuclear program compared to how many times they've spoken on the fact that one of the middle eastern nations we are closest to thinks that the penalty for being raped 14 times should be 200 lashes and 6 months in prison.

Then there's the sectarian angle. She was Shia, the attackers were Sunni. I wonder if the media in the region or the street are talking about that, particularly in Iraq. Afterall, being buddy buddy with a nation that has things like this going on can't really enhance our image in the midst of a secrtarian conflict, can it?

turning a blind eye. It's a shame that how this country defends and promotes it's relationship with Saudia Arabia knowing fully well they are just as bad if not worse than some of the "axis of evil" countries.

Sadly it's not only in Saudia Arabia that women are blamed for being raped. Many cultures have this same backwards thinking... India, Pakistan, Afghanistan etc.. and even sadder it's not just Muslims that demean women like that, Hindus and even Christians will cast blame on the woman.

Good lord! Its so wrong how countries like Saudi Arabia treat women like second-rate citizens... Wait, I mean slaves.

In America, I always thought laws for sex crimes were too laxed. People would get more jail time for possession of drugs than raping a child. Its pathetic. I think its because the lawmakers don't want to get what they deserve when they are caught.

We as the world should really act hard against sex crimes, especially those pertaining to children. More than 12 of my female friends from high school and college have been raped at least once in their life. The youngest was when she was 5. Horrible!

Reading Race Against Evil by David Race Bannon can truly open your eyes with the underground children sex slave network:

Amazon: Race Against Evil

wow... our great allies in the war on terror...

seems like we should really reconsider that whole alliance


swift kick in the balls they need....

Saudi arabia plays by the rules when it comes to plundering their oil, so we look the other way. how many times in history have we supported or even installed leaders who are dictators or worse but play the money game right so we let it slide. its terrible, and could you imagine the outrage if this happend in venezuela or god forbid iran !! top page headlines for weeks.

Originally posted by The Vagabond
news.bbc.co.uk...

An appeal court in Saudi Arabia has doubled the number of lashes and added a jail sentence as punishment for a woman who was gang-raped.

The Arab News quoted an official as saying the judges had decided to punish the girl for trying to aggravate and influence the judiciary through the media. The victim's lawyer was suspended from the case, has had his licence to work confiscated, and faces a disciplinary session.

That's Islam for ya. Women are considered mere possessions, treated worse than dogs, walk a step and half behind the man, etc. Women's rights come in a distant third behind the men and farm animals rights.

A Shia lady once mentioned to me that one of her biggest wishes is to be able to wear a pair of blue jeans without fear of punishment.

It's a whole different culture over here.

The place where civilization supposedly began, yet still stuck in the Dark Ages in many areas.

Sad thing is, it happens all the time and we just don't hear about it.

Its been like this for a long time, and I don't foresee it changing for a long time ( if at all ).

Doesn't some cultures punish the action with death? I could be wrong but it seems to me hearing something about it before.

reply to post by bg_socalif


yep, those areas of the middle east right now are just like europe in the dark ages...
minus the big hats on the temporal leaders

i'd have to just correct one thing, it's not just ISLAM for you, it's ABRAHAMIC RELIGION for you.
judaism and christianity are also quite harsh towards women.

I have to admit, it's the one thing that bothers me about the whole 'cover your hair, dress modestly' thing. It's that on some level what you're saying is that men cannot control themselves. And that if you present them with feminine endouments that it is a SIN on the behalf of the woman.

reply to post by Grailkeeper


well, under biblical law the woman would be put to death in this instance...
aside from that, i'm not sure about any other culture's take on it

I happen to speak politician (this may seem a bit crass to some of you, but that's how the language of politics is)

The really ironic thing about how we look the other way on these issues is the fact that we have more to gain than to lose by doing the right thing. Supporting women's rights isn't just the right thing to do- it's shrewd policy.

A woman who has the right to say know has a great deal of leverage over her husband/boyfriend/that creepy guy next door who stares whenever he sees her. I've heard several amusing stories about women in small towns in different countries instituting prohibition to straighten out their men, and achieving it not only by law but also by withholding sex.

Once women can say no, they can get the vote eventually, and once they get the vote, 51% of the population in nations that used to hate us will at least have some minor appreciation for the fact that we helped them achieve their equal status.


I know that it is possible for a woman to believe in strict observance of religious requirements. I know there are plenty of Muslim women in America who CHOOSE to cover up, and in the case of one who I saw on TV, have very cogent arguments in favor of the practice, as a matter of their own dignity and not desiring to be made the object of sexual fantasy by strangers. I also know that it's possible for them to disagree with the way Western culture conducts itself. Fine, more power to them.

We don't have to create the first muslim Paris Hilton. All we have to do is help them win the choice, and though they will not necessarily be our devoted friends, it will establish a basic understanding between their electorate and us that we're all basically decent people, whatever our character flaws might be.

Few things in life make me physically ill. This is definitely one of them.

Those people are barbarians.
-----
Those women need safe houses for when they've finally had enough abuse and want to escape their situation. Does anyone know if such things already exist there?

And exactly why is the US, the supposed most free nation on the planet even associating itself with a country that advocates this kind of crap?

Never mind. I know the answer. I'm just

[edit on 11/16/2007 by PrplHrt]

It should be noted that this judgement came from an area that pratices Wahhbaism and it supposed to be outlawed in SA. Wahhbaism is the group that parpituates Al-Queda.

But SA, like most middle eastren countries are not like the US, they have tribal systems, religious systems and judicuary systems..........plus blood fueds that go back centuries if not milleniums.

The 'royals' in SA have supposedly passed a bunch of new reforms but you have to remeber that they are not set-up like a westernized society.

Btw....it is horrible that women are treated this way.

I'm not sure what good reform is it doesn't bring change. Infact I'm pretty sure it ceases to technically even be reform then.

Lets not forget, the Saudi royal family is pretty close with the American royal family, and if they need a little firepower to oppress the local barbarians with I'm sure we'd be willing to help them out.

I appreciate what you are saying but it only makes the relationship between SA and the USA look worse. We help the powerless and unpopular central governments of Iraq and Afghanistan because the people that those governments can't control are hurting our interests. But apparently we ignore the fact that the Saudi government can't assert itself because the people who break their laws aren't messing with our oil interests.

reply to post by The Vagabond

That's why we need to wean ourselves off petroleum products now and advance to true alternatives. Once we do that we're not hostage to the barbarians.

The technology is out there. It's fighting those who'd lose vast amounts of profit that's the problem. As long as we are under the thumb of Big Oil, we're screwed.

I read about this this morning and it was not a great thing to read to start the day. This is absolutely disgusting and makes me personally want to find the judges who made this decision and put them in the most hardcore American prison and see how they like being raped, and then punish them later for having it happen. If America is really for freedom, let's help people who really need it and bomb SA for allowing this type of Barbaric behavior to happen. At least then you could say that they are at war for something besides oil.

[edit on 11/17/2007 by Kronik98]

This is absolutely disgusting. It is also who Saudi Arabia is as a nation. They are not our friends. They preach that we are to be killed as infidels in their schools. The children that disappear on American streets end up in Saudi Arabia as sex slaves. Our government knows about this and refuses to do anything about it.

Saudi Sex Slaves

Saudi Arabia is not our friend.





[edit on 11-17-2007 by groingrinder]

Originally posted by bg_socalif
That's Islam for ya. Women are considered mere possessions, treated worse than dogs, walk a step and half behind the man, etc. Women's rights come in a distant third behind the men and farm animals rights.

A Shia lady once mentioned to me that one of her biggest wishes is to be able to wear a pair of blue jeans without fear of punishment.

It's a whole different culture over here.

The place where civilization supposedly began, yet still stuck in the Dark Ages in many areas.

I wouldn't say that is Islam....I am a muslim and I and everyone I know don't follow Islam like that. In my opinion those are just extremists rather than true muslims. No where in the Quran does it say women should be treated like that in fact here is soemhing for you:

"Treat your women well and be kind to them for they are your partners and committed helpers."
From the last sermon of Prophet Mohammed

And for your information I have seen a number of Shia women wearing Jeans.....in Iran....

reply to post by Snake64_009



And so the truth will out... All Muslims, that do not live in Saudi Arabia are the real deal? All the Saudis are extremists?

Well... Whaddayaknow?

Come on. This type of stuff didn't just pop up this year. It's been that way for millenia. I'm not sure there is a Muslim country where women aren't treated badly. If wrong I do apologize. But even if you are dealing with so called extremists, there has to be something in the doctrine that allows them to intepret, no matter how loosely, in such a way that women are treated worse than camels.

reply to post by sigung86


I never said that outside of Saudi Arabia you don't see this. And yes I think the government is extemist and so is the Iranian government.

It has been happening a long time indeed because people cannot do anything or should I say are too afraid to do anything against the people in POWER. They really do have a hold over the people. The media always makes it sound like all Islam is like this because they only capture what the goverment and a few indviduals do. Like I said, I and every muslim family/friend I know do not interpret the Quran like this. In fact women are just as important as men and are treated the same.....

But people in power can change anything they want if they wanted to. They interpreted the Quran the way they saw fit....

You always get people in any religion who make there own interpretation of their religion. Some of these are for the better and some for the worse.

If you would like I will post up verses of the Quran regarding women.