How much do you spend on UFO books?

Some of you may have seen my article about free online books and resources for UFO researchers ("Free UFO Researcher Starter Pack").

As I mention in that article, I've also been working on a relatively lengthy article recommending various UFO books. There are, of course, already a number of lists online recommending various UFO books, but few of those lists take into account the cost of the books recommended.

I’m planning on posting recommendations buying a cheap “starter pack” of second-hand books (based on a budget of, say, $30, $50 or $100) in that article.

So, what should be the budget for this "starter pack"?

How much do members of ATS tend to spend on UFO books?

How much, if anything, did you spend on UFO books when you first became interested in UFOs?

(I realise that I may be a bit atypical. I've bought over 1,000 UFO/SETI books so far...).

Kind Regards,

Isaac

Like you, Isaac, I've amassed a huge collection of UFO books, though, if my guess is right, your library, like mine, also includes dozens, if not hundreds of additional volumes on cosmology, alien/ET life, exopolitics, alternative/free/zero point energy, secret societies, ancient cultures, cryptozoology, astrobiology, planetary geology, and similar works.

I used to spend lots of money on UFO books, especially in the early years, as I hunted down new releases and out-of-print works alike. Now - I've taken a much more pragmatic approach, scouring eBay and Amazon (as well as used book stores as I happen to come across them). Lately I've been finding many books for pennies-on-the-dollar. eBay, in particular, is place I go to find UFO books in bundles of 1/2 dozen or more. - usually at less than 1$/book and combine shipping that is very inexpensive. Sure, duplicates abound, but I don't mind - I simply donate the dupes to my local library (it helps spread UFO awareness too!).

I also buy first-run editions from authors I admire, such as Stanton Friedman or Timothy Good. In addition, I have a weakness for personal meetings with authors, so I like to add works from UFO authors at trade shows, conferences, and book signings, particular if I can get their personalized autograph in the book - and I do this whether or not I happen to subscribe to the premise or slant in their work.

I particularly seek and treasure books by scientists, astronomers, statesmen, and other "credentialed" individuals, such as Carl Sagan, Amir Aczel, Stephen Hawking, etc. because they lend some credibility to the subject when I quote from them in discussions with others and in preparing my own statements and commentary.

I would suggest, for someone starting out on this subject, to budget perhaps $50 to $100 for a decent initial set of volumes from which to begin their journey. With this reasonable outlay, one should be able to acquire 20 to 40 or so of the "better" works (admittedly a subjective decision). Used books, in "As New" condition for many of these are available at Amazon for only a couple of dollars each or so. The ones on your list are a pretty good 'shopping list' to choose from.

You'll probably be hearing from guys like Schuyler, another avid reader, who recently was wondering on ATS how he might bequeath his library appropriately - an intriguing discussion by itself.

In any case - thanks for allowing me to offer an opinion or suggestion or two in this regard. Hopefully, if at least one new reader is motivated to assemble and absorb a collection of their own then the exercise is certainly worthwhile...


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[edit on 11/10/2007 by Outrageo]

I have hit all the highlights. Friedman's books, Good, Dolan. I probably pick up one or two a year.

So for me, someone who is interested in the subject but not looking to make it a living, a budget of $40 per year is probably about right, but may even be a little high.

I prefer to read about the subject online. For free. But I do own quite a few books about UFO's etc. That said, my budget per year would be very low. Under 50 dollars.

I started collecting in my twenties when I worked for a bookstore. I thought, naively, that I could collect it all, but with a salary a few cents above the minimum wage ($2.10 at the time) I just couldn’t keep up and virtually stopped. By the time life had improved enough to begin collecting again I was so far behind I would never catch up. Then in 1978 or so I walked into a used bookstore and discovered a huge collection of UFO books that someone had just dropped off because he needed to ‘simplify his life.’ I did a little negotiation and wound up with all of them for $1.25 apiece.

At first I really did not appreciate the treasure trove I happened upon. But all the classics were there, all the contactee books from the fifties, all the major authors. I really lucked out. There’s still way too much to collect; and now I’m starting to fine tune. For example, there is a book called “My Saturnian Lover,” a 72 page vanity press book published by Marla Baxter in 1958. It’s important in the study of Howard Menger, a 50’s contactee who said he was a reincarnated Saturnian working on Earth. Baxter is his wife, who is a reincarnated Venusian. That book, if you can get it, is at least $50.00. But that’s what it takes if you want to get into the esoterica. I probably spend about $100 per month right now.

If you really get into this, you need some bibliographies, but published ones are rare. George Eberhart published “UFOs and the extraterrestrial contact movement” in 2 volumes in 1986. It will cost you $150 today. Richard Rasmussen published “The UFO Literature” about the same time. Copies of this book are much cheaper. I don’t know of a solid bibliography published in book form since that time. I would think the market is ready for an update if anyone were interested in pulling together a professional bibliography from 1985 to date. These books really help you sort out editions, volumes, and other issues and let you know where you stand in terms of the comprehensiveness of your collection.

I like the idea of packets of recommendations, but I don’t see a single $100 packet really doing the job. You could do several packets. Just off the top:

Contactees: Bethurum, Adamaski, Menger, etc.
Classics: Keyhoe, Edwards, Hynek, etc.
Abductees: Hill, Hopkins, Strieber, Andreasson, etc.
Roswell: all by itself
Best Encounters Ever: Rendlesham Forest, Cash-Landrum
UFO cults: Meier, Rael, Greer
Coverup politics: Good, Dolan, etc.
Philosophical: Vallee, Gods of Eden
Personalities: Wow. Where could you go with t his one?

I think you CAN do a lot on-line and certainly you can become familiar with the major cases. But I doubt people will sit still to read something like Vallee's "Messengers of Deception" on-line, therefore they will miss much of the fine detail authors like Vallee can provide. Although I've said his many times, if posters who express opinions online were actually familiar with the literature on the subject, the quality fo posts would be far higher than it is today.


[edit on 11/10/2007 by schuyler]

Originally posted by Togetic

So for me, someone who is interested in the subject but not looking to make it a living, a budget of $40 per year is probably about right, but may even be a little high.

Yeah this seems about right to me too. I like David Icke (even though I disagree with him a lot) and I always buy his books. And at least 2-4 more UFO books a year. The last book I read was Jim Sparks on his abduction experiences.

p.s. $40 is actually my minimum, I might get up to spending around $100 in a year.

Mmm. Okay.

The responses above have been very helpful in focusing my thinking.

Judging from the responses so far I think I'll write the recommendations for book purchases on the basis of:

(a) a rather limited general "starter pack" of UFO books on a budget of, say, $40. Using Ebay and other online (or real life) second-hand bookstores, I think you could get some of the most fundamental material for this sort of budget, e.g. one book by each of Hynek, Vallee, Klass, Jerome Clark and Jenny Randles.

(b) a few additional specialist "starter packs", each with a budget of, say, $40. I really like Schuyler's idea of such separate "packets" of recommendations.


I'll play around a bit with the particular "packets" suggested by Schuyler. For example, apart from packets geared towards particular topics (e.g. contactees, abductees, roswell etc) then I think it would be useful to have a few packets covering:

(1) particular viewpoints (e.g. a "skeptics" pack, or an "alternative explanations" pack covering time-travellers/other-dimensions/demons etc) or

(2) focused on a particular type of involvement (e.g. books for individuals that want to be UFO field investigators).

Thanks again for the input.

All the best,

Isaac

Books? How quaint! All the good stuff can be found here or elsewhere on the internet. Plus, here you have feedback on whether something's been debunked or not.

Simple, decent thread idea. I spend some loot on conspiracy books per year. The UFO stuff is included but usually can find those pretty cheap at Amazon, like any book out for a little while, they show up used on there for, sometimes less then 1/2 cover price.... I did buy the new Hoagland book at Borders, full price, so far it's totally worth it, really dense, like 500-600 pages.

reply to post by mentalempire


The Internet is good for a slam bam thank you ma'am quickee hit, but unless you're willing to read a lot on the screen, it rarely provides in-depth well-considered information. As more and more books get scanned onto the net and people are actually willing to read them, then perhaps that will lessen over time. Just to use Vallee as an example, since he has been brought up, the typical Internet answer about Vallee is "Oh, he's the guy who thinks UFOs are a part of folklore and some sort of control mechanism for human culture." "Oh, thanks guy. Now I understand Vallee. He's crazy." That's the level of discourse you often get on the Net--superficial, light-weight, lacking any real understanding of the issue. If you want to understand Vallee, you have to read his books--all of them, ponder them, and attempt to understand what he means.

The typical Internet post--quick, short, opinionated--is rarely helpful in expanding your understanding of a complex issue. If you think you are well-informed by reading ATS, you're fooling yourself.

reply to post by schuyler


What??? I couldn't disagree more. On the Internet you have who knows how much information at your fingertips...stuff can be instantly debunked or confirmed. With a book all you've got is what's there on the page. Shouldn't it be ludicrously obvious from that that the Internet is preferable to books in most cases? Granted, there is an odd time or two when you would need a book, but I mean, really, how is the Internet so deficient? Sure, you can get reductionistic analysis on the Internet, if you're lazy and don't want to look deeply into the subject. Nevertheless, the Internet is just about as deep as you want to go.

Originally posted by schuyler
reply to post by mentalempire

 

The Internet is good for a slam bam thank you ma'am quickee hit, but unless you're willing to read a lot on the screen, it rarely provides in-depth well-considered information. As more and more books get scanned onto the net and people are actually willing to read them, then perhaps that will lessen over time. Just to use Vallee as an example, since he has been brought up, the typical Internet answer about Vallee is "Oh, he's the guy who thinks UFOs are a part of folklore and some sort of control mechanism for human culture." "Oh, thanks guy. Now I understand Vallee. He's crazy."

I like your thinking on this Schuyler. A lot of good information has as of yet not been uploaded onto the WWW. Aside from that mental empire's points are good, but Schuyler is also right that often times there is a level of pithyness on any serious subject on the internet that a little amount of information, only can be learned (when there may be oodles and oodles of info out there in those dusty old things called books).


[edit on 10-11-2007 by Raoul Duke]

The second last book I just read.


Joaquim Fernandes, Fina D'Armada Heavenly Lights: The Apparitions of Fatima and the UFO Phenomenon, pg. iii-iv

Foreword by Jacques Vallee (see below -- typed it out manually.. won't find anywhere on the internet)


This book is the product of an analysis of perceived "apparitions," whether religious or profane in nature, and their interpretation in a rational, scientific context. Such an effort is long overdue. By bridging the gap between the vast domain of spiritual miracles (illustrated here by the Fatima events of 1917) and the equally immense amount of data recorded by investigators of unidentified flying objects, Joaquim Fernandes and Fina D' Armada have opened an important new avenue of research. In the process, they tell the fascinating story of a global phenomenon that reaches far beyond the boundaries of Portugal and stretches through centuries of passion and puzzlement.
The facts they have uncovered bring new light to the age old problem of unexplained aerial phenomena. This neglected area of research is fundamental to our understanding of the physical universe, of human consciousness, and of the role played by spiritual movements in shaping human history.

Consider the statement made by the 3 children of Fatima who, while watching their sheep on May 13, 1917, said they first saw lightning, and then "As we arrived at the middle of the ranch, another flash of lightning struck again, and we saw a lady on on top of an oak tree. We were very frightened at seeing the resplendency that enveloped her."
Now compare this statement with the report provided by the Arias family of Nicanor-Olivrea, Argentina, who, on Aug. 31, 1978, were awakened by an intense luminosity outside their house. An egg-shaped object, they said, hovered over a nearby eucalyptus tree. From one edge, the object emitted a circular light. At the end of this beam, they saw "2 bulky beings" that carried, at chest height, a red light that "seemed to run as if falling from a small waterfall." The entities moved in a rigid fashion, like "floating travelers, seated on something".
The burden falls on the scientific commntiy to explain why these seemingly absurd observations arise so often from frightened and sincere witnesses, and how they have such a powerful influence on our belief systems. But what should the professional scientist or the curious amateur do when faced with events that seem to contradict everything we "know" about normal reality?
THE EASIEST PATH IS THE WELL-WORN ONE, AND THAT IS TO FLATLY DENY THE FACTS. Perhaps the witnesses are deluded individuals, or liars. Indeed, this accusation was made against the shepherds of Fatima, until the final sighting, when over 60,000 witnesses observed the luminous displays, and the physical effects were such that no one could deny them any longer. The scientific consensus, and the majority view in educated circles, however, still hold that the events in question, must have been "ordinary", and mistakenly observed. This is certainly the most parsimonious assumption.
A second way of interpreting incidents like Fatima is held in respect throughout most of the world. It does not deny the facts but instead carefully reframes them within the structure of dogma and belief. This cosmology assumes that the witnesses were privileged to take part in a miracle, a signal sent uniquely to them from a divine level of spiritual intensity that it would be a folly to try to understand it, blasphemy to challenge the wisdom of its pronouncements. This is the religious path. In this view, God, or his messengers, are so far above the human level that we would display silly human arrogance if we did more than record the events and cower in obedience before them.
For those, who like the authors of this book, refuse to follow either one of these convenient paths, the challenges become enormous. The involve detachment and critical analysis of difficult material; correlation of testimony from many independent parties; and confrontation between two sets of physical descriptions, namely those of religious events, like Fatima, and those of more mundane but equally puzzling unidentified aerial phenomena, like the reports of the Areas family of Argentina. As the authors show, it is in this manner that genuine research can go forward. The result is a new awareness of the complexity of consciousness.
Modern laboratory research has shown that our perceptions are highly vulnerable to changes in our physical environment. They can be altered by drugs, hypnosis and electromagnetic fields. They are shaped by language, culture and education. They are subject to social pressure.
As we enter an age when the functions of the brain can be studied in real-time with sophisticated instruments, academic research is beginning to seriously consider a range of consciousness phenomena that earlier scientists discounted. In this context, percipients of unusual events are becoming participants in a novel and exciting field rich in potential scientific breakthroughs. The authors of this book analyze such events, and they go to establish relevant linkages between various classes of unexplained facts. Their work makes an important contribution to our understanding of the human condition and of the universe in which we live.


[edit on 10-11-2007 by Palasheea]

I also have noticed a lot of people's websites are actually set up to sell their books, not give you much of anything for free. Although similar or the same information might be available online somewhere else. Of course there's no way to know this unless you buy the book of the person who has clearly set their website up to sell their books.

That's why there's very little substance on the internet, when it comes down to it.
Let's take Jacques Vallee, for example. His writings are awesome but you won't find much of it on the net except for some brief interviews. And for books.. many good and well known authors have yet to realize that if they provided more substance and detail on what's in their books on their websites instead of worrying about 'giving it all away", I'm sure they would find that by providing some of the beef on what's in their books, they would see an increase in book sales.
But you are correct in saying that you won't find much on those author's websites but in my view, they haven't caught on yet to what I just said above. If viewers of their sites are captivated by the authors revelations, no matter how much information that author gives on that, viewers will still buy the book just to enjoy the continuity of the authors findings that only books are able to do.. nothing can replace the medium of the book. That's the long and the short of it.

[edit on 10-11-2007 by Palasheea]

reply to post by Palasheea


Vallee's article on Wikipedia is quite long, has loads of external links with even more information and has linked several full-text papers by him. Do little more research before you further bash the Internet.

en.wikipedia.org...

Like most of you guys, i spend enough.

My old man is pretty much a librarian / historian in his own right.

Hes got at least 30,000 books, covering vast subjects and gets many books sent to him to keep his private library stocked.

Fair to say hes passed me many ufo books ( hes been into the subject since the 50s).. Newer stuff ill buy, read then pass to him to read and stick in his library..

safe to say my old man is an intelligent bloke, and the both of us drinking and talking our chosen subjects.... your talking a 7 hr debate lol.


It doesnt matter how much you spend, it matters how much you read, take in, the put it logically..

ps, raoul duke, lot of conspiricy surrounding the Hunter S Thompson legend.. Ive read all his stuff inside out... anything on his death coming from you on a side not? Hunter was and always will be THE gonzo journalist of all time.





[edit on 10-11-2007 by zeetroyman]

If you can afford it, I recommend a full set of the most recent edition of Encyclopedia Britannica. I voraciously read those things in my high school library...learned a heck of a whole lot, too.

[edit on 10-11-2007 by mentalempire]

I think it's just hilarious to put up Wikipedia as the paragon of in-depth information, research, and all that the Internet can provide. Wikipedia, the 'encyclopedia' that has been banned (for citations) by universites and colleges worldwide for its banal amateurish content that "anyone can edit." To say that Wikipedia democratizes the world is to say that mob rule makes everyone equal. There's some good stuff there, for sure, but is is not definitive.

One recent book on the subject is Cult of the Amateur, which shows some of the problem. I'm not saying he Internet is 'no good.' It's great for pointing out further information, like Wikipedia does for Vallee. But I maintain that a two sentence defense of the Internet is a typical light-weight manifestation of little value. If you want to truly underfstand and talk about Vallee and his ideas about UFOs, you must read:

Dimensions
Heavenly Lights
Fastwalk er
Passport to Magonia
Challenge to Science
Revelations
Edge of Reality
The Invisible College
Messengers of Deception

If you've read his books, you're qualified to discuss his ideas. If you haven't, your opinions are not particularly well informed nor credible. If you CAN get all this information directly from the Internet, Great!! I would suggest, however, that most do not, and by limiting themselves to tidbits and two sentence posts, they are doing themselves a disservice and doing nothing whatsoever to advance the state of knowledge. It amounts to useless noise.

I'm reminded of a quote from Mark Twain: "Those who do not read good books have no advantage over those who cannot read them."

reply to post by schuyler


Ohhh wikipedia sucks!!! Let's all jump on the user-content hate bandwagon!!! (And if you have done this, why are you here?)

Look, all you've got against wikipedia is bandwagon appeals to the misguided universities and slimy neocon Andrew Keen who doesn't hold much coin here.

Those who bash wikipedia conveniently ignore that wikipedia is no different from mainstream encyclopedias in that it is heavily sourced to reputable publications BUT covers far more topics than mainstream encyclopedias AND spurious articles can always be changed. With print, spuriousness stays around for a long, long time. Print media has no "talk" page where people can hash out whether something's been debunked or not.

In just about every category, the internet is so clearly superior to print media that I think a lot of people are scared. The academic establishment is used to print media as the only source of knowledge, it petrifies them that something very different from it has almost totally supplanted it. Are you scared?