The Pyramids are older than 2600 B.C.

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posted on Nov, 10 2007 @ 12:51 PM
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Thanks KW

Well worth the watch

A bit simplistic on the science but good at showing the elementary problems with the Atlantean myth. I thought the last bit about the Nazis was a overblown but otherwise a good primer.

The best part was the archaeologist in New England talking about how messy humans are - we are, so how these guys managed not to leave a clue anywere is always a black mark against the idea.

Howdy Merka

Plato wrote about an empire of amazing scope I do agree that it is a bad translation to call it "super" however.

But I think we're starting to head of topic a bit

[edit on 10-11-2007 by Hanslune]




posted on Nov, 10 2007 @ 12:55 PM
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Originally posted by Hanslune
Plato wrote about an empire of amazing scope I do agree that it is a bad translation to call it "super" however.

It wasnt really of amazing scope either. Little in the text suggest anything more than a city state very similar to Athens at his time (and incidently, on the same level of technology).



posted on Nov, 10 2007 @ 01:17 PM
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Originally posted by Skyfloating

Originally posted by merka

"It was Plato, who first wrote about a super civilization" (emphasis mine)

[edit on 10-11-2007 by merka]


Wrong. While everyone says it was first plato who mentioned Atlantis, the truth is that older civilizations make mention of a sunken land in the Atlantic. There is evidence that the people of the canary islands, the basques ("Atlaintika"), the Celts, the Galicians, and the native Americans all had their own tales of the sunken place. It is my view that Plato only copied from older legends.


wrong
Twisting evidence to support a belief in Atlantis is not very clever. It detracts from the credibility of the whole myth

why not just claim that every group that has a flood story are claiming to have come from Atlantis

its just as convincing

the Basque claim for instance falls to pieces the second it is examined, D.N.A. evidence has proved that the Basque are descended from the Cro Magnon occupation in Europe and linguistical studies agree with that

further the claims made for the Basque come from the pen of Miguel Ajeno a basque poet who wrote the poem called Atlántida based on Platos account in the 1960s when their origins were still unknown

the celtic story of Lyonesse is set off the south coast of england

the Galician story features church bells tolling underwater so that must be really really ancient

and to claim that Plato had access to any stories from Ameria is plainly ridiculous

finally the langauge spoken by the original inhabitants of the Canary islands was Berber and so they originated in North Africa, the claim for a sunken "strip" of land is believed to refer to a now submerged partial landbridge. the Atlantean claims for it all originated in the 19th century

finally try to remember that Plato was not a historian. he was a philosopher

you are aware that Philosophers invent stories to teach a lesson in morals.








[edit on 10-11-2007 by kerkinana walsky]



posted on Nov, 10 2007 @ 01:19 PM
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The same level of Greece at the time and oddly similar (militarily to the Persian empire the Greeks had beaten) the size of the empire was considered to be large enough to cover the western part of the Med.




Now in this island of Atlantis there was a great and wonderful empire which had rule over the whole island and several others, and over parts of the continent, and, furthermore, the men of Atlantis had subjected the parts of Libya within the columns of Heracles as far as Egypt, and of Europe as far as Tyrrhenia. This vast power, gathered into one, endeavoured to subdue at a blow our country and yours and the whole of the region within the straits; and then,


Quote from Timaeus - 2nd page



posted on Nov, 10 2007 @ 01:35 PM
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reply to post by kerkinana walsky
 


after mass burnings of books, political and religious cover-ups, falsification of evidence, and the mass-murder of atlantis-proponents through the inquisition it is easy for you to sit there and claim "there is no evidence of atlantis". If it turns out that millions died in the flood (as ancient lore tells us) I am not going to be a revisionist by saying "no, it never happened". Only 50 years after world war two people are doubting that the holocaust ever happened. And Im talking about a time stretch of 10 000 years. I wouldnt be so eager to dismiss the idea.



posted on Nov, 10 2007 @ 01:54 PM
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reply to post by Skyfloating
 


Atlantis didn't fire the publics imagination until it was translated into English by Benjamin Jowett in



posted on Nov, 10 2007 @ 02:03 PM
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reply to post by Skyfloating
 


Atlantis didn't fire the publics imagination until it was translated into English by Benjamin Jowett around 1870 so your "mass burnings of books, political and religious cover-ups, falsification of evidence, and the mass-murder of atlantis-proponents through the inquisition" never happened because no one knew of Platos dialogues til 100s of years after the inquisition.

Its not ancient lore that tells you millions died in "the flood" its the Bible

when someone presents evidence based on religion and then also claims religion is responsible for covering it up you have to wonder at their motives



posted on Nov, 10 2007 @ 02:40 PM
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Despite your eagerness to quickly brush Atlantis away, the file is not quite closed yet.

All of your references refer to official history, whereas my interest is dedicated to secret history - hence the ATS Forum. Official history has been taught to me and I come here to seek evidence of secret history. History as passed on away from the eyes of the public.

Do I understand correctly that you are denying that myths of grand floods exist?



posted on Nov, 10 2007 @ 02:52 PM
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we live on a planet that is 4/5 water of course flood myths exist.
But Platos isn't a myth its a philosophical story told to teach the errors of not honouring the gods.

none of the other myths are even remotely similar to anything Plato said except that there is water involved

to claim a connection is akin to claiming that Mcdonalds are responsible for foot and mouth disease in cattle becase they sell beef products

In the last five years there have been two devastating floods alone which made news the world over, the Asian Tsunami and the New Orleans flood, are they also connected to Atlantis ?

currently the eastern coast of England and Netherlands are being hit by a tidal surge that has caused widespread panic, is this connected to Atlantis

In August central England was devastated by a flood is this connected to Atlantis

how about these from the news just since the start of November ?
news.google.co.uk...
are these connected to Atlantis

the claim that the real history has been falsified because there are ancient flood myths doesn't hold water



the motto of this forum is "deny ignorance" it says nothing about perpetuating it





[edit on 10-11-2007 by kerkinana walsky]



posted on Nov, 10 2007 @ 02:53 PM
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Originally posted by Hanslune

So what evidence do you have of an age older than 2600 BC?



None. Thats why I opened this thread. To gather such evidence, should it even exist. My suspicions arose in conversations with egyptologists who tell me something different than they publicly state.




Some questions to ponder, world-wide outsiders moving into an area with existing structures - always give them names and status as "from the early one or the gods, the Egyptians didn't do this, why?


I am not saying that the Pyramids were built by "The Gods" or aliens, if thats what you are hinting at here. But that raises the question: What DID the egyptians say about who built them?




Why did the people in the workers village feel they were making pyramids?



You are saying there is documentation on how the pyramids were built?





Why did the Egyptians build large mortuary temples based around these (and all other pyramids)?



I dont know. Neither does it tell us anything about the age.


Why is there no trace of a large advanced civilization on the Giza Plateau- except the Egyptians? Why is there no evidence of an advanced civilization anywhere in the Nile valley? Why is there no evidence of an advance civilization anywhere else in the world?


They were wiped out or they left, or, should they be extraterrestrial, they never settled on earth.




Why did the Egyptians tell the Greeks they build the pyramids? Why not say the gods made it as a gift for us?



Again, I am not saying they were built by an advanced race. But there may have been support and/or tools from such a race, or knowledge left from another time. WHY ARE THE OLDER PYRAMIDS MORE ADVANCED THAN NEWER ONES.



posted on Nov, 10 2007 @ 02:57 PM
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Implore the Egyptian gov to look under the left foot on the Sphynx. Been done already. I'm sure. The book of records. Why we sacrifice our troops to keep a lid on 'the second coming'.



posted on Nov, 10 2007 @ 03:00 PM
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Originally posted by kerkinana walsky
we live on a planet that is 4/5 water of course flood myths exist.
But Platos isn't a myth its a philosophical story told to teach the errors of not honouring the gods. none of the other myths are even remotely similar to anything Plato said except that there is water involved



I dont use Platos story for my belief in Atlantis. In fact, I was never interested in it. I got my Atlantis theory from native indian stories. So I dont really care who plato was or what he said.



currently the eastern coast of England and Netherlands are being hit by a tidal surge that has caused widespread panic, is this connected to Atlantis
In August central England was devastated by a flood is this connected to Atlantis


The Atlantis Encyclopedia cites hundreds of myths specifically referring to a sunken country in what we now call the Atlantic ocean. None of your recent news items talk of a sunken country or continent. Case closed.



posted on Nov, 10 2007 @ 04:20 PM
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Originally posted by Skyfloating


The Atlantis Encyclopedia cites hundreds of myths specifically referring to a sunken country in what we now call the Atlantic ocean. None of your recent news items talk of a sunken country or continent. Case closed.



wrong
the Atlantis Encylopedia isn't worth the paper its written on
heres a few of its alleged examples of Atalantean mythology

* Viracocha, the early Inca culture-hero who "rose" from the depths of Lake Titicaca

Lake Titicaca isn't Atlantis

* Balor, the king of the giant Sea People in Irish folklore

In Irish mythology, Balor (Balar, Bolar) of the Evil Eye was a king of the Fomorians, a race of giants. His father was Buarainech and his wife was Cethlenn. According to legend, he lived on Tory Island which is an island of the Republic of Ireland, located nine miles off the Donegal coast of Northwest Ireland. so that isn't Atlantis

* Island of Jewels, the paradisiacal realm in Hindu myth. At the center of this island hidden by misty akasha, was a magnificent palace where all wishes were granted.

Akasha is the Hindu word for Air, the rest of this claim is a complete fabrication

* Enki, the sea-god of Sumerian myth who was a pre-flood culture-bearer from Atlantis

Enki was from Eridu a city on the shores of the Persian Gulf, that wasn't Atlantis either

* Numinor, J.R.R. Tolkien's version of Atlantis in Lord of the Rings. Tolkien claimed to have been plagued since childhood by nightmares he believed were past-life memories of the Atlantean catastrophe-nightmares also shared by his son. (Numinor was also known as Ele'na and Westernesse).

Tolkien wrote fiction based on mythology, is Sauron also a real person, how about Bilbo Baggins

* Ragnarok, the Norse "Twilight of the Gods"

Ragnarok is the Norse equivalent of the christian Armageddon a battle that happens at the end of time, as such it hasn;t happened yet so this has no connection to Atlantis

* Pleiades, also known as Atlantides, means "Daughter of Atlas". Greek scholar Diodoras Siculus wrote that the Pleiades were not originally mythic figures, but real women who married Atlantean culture bearers. Long after their deaths, they were regarded as divine, and commemorated as a star cluster.

the Pleiades did not marry Atlantean Culture bearers one of them married Poseidon, is he a real person ?
Maia /ˈmaɪə/, eldest of the seven Pleiades, was mother of Hermes by Zeus.
Electra was mother of Dardanus and Iasion by Zeus.
Taygete was mother of Lacedaemon, also by Zeus.
Alcyone was mother of Hyrieus by Poseidon.
Celaeno was mother of Lycus and Eurypylus by Poseidon.
Sterope (also Asterope) was mother of Oenomaus by Ares.
Merope youngest of the seven Pleiades, was wooed by Orion. In other mythic contexts she married Sisyphus and, becoming mortal, faded away. She bore to Sisyphus several sons.


* Sir Arthur Conan Doyle, who wrote about Atlantis in a 1928 serialization by The Saturday Evening Post called The Maracot Deep.

Sir Arthur Conan Doyle another writer of fiction so no connection to Atlantis either. He also wrote about Sherlock Holmes is he connected to Atlantis

when considering evidence for a lost continent you should always consider the source
Frank Joseph who wrote that book is the Editor of "Ancient American" which is the historical equivalent of the weekly world news

really if this is all you've got then I agree it is case closed, not that it was actually open in the first place




posted on Nov, 10 2007 @ 04:29 PM
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Originally posted by Skyfloating
WHY ARE THE OLDER PYRAMIDS MORE ADVANCED THAN NEWER ONES.

They are? How come?

If we would assume the Great Pyramid is the "older" one:

- Same geometric shape
- Tunnels leading to similarly designed rooms
- Same building techniques used as in later ones (presumably)

If we follow conventional design:

- Clear progression of design (step pyramid -> bent pyramid -> red pyramid)
- Earlier pyramids where much smaller, to escalate in the Great Pyramid

Regardless of case, I fail to see how your "older pyramids" are more advanced. They're basicly just huge piles of rocks with tunnels in them. All the other temples in Egypt that was built later than the Great Pyramid DWARF it in terms of architectural achievement. Gather them in one place and you'd probably have temples as far as the eye can see.



posted on Nov, 10 2007 @ 04:54 PM
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reply to post by kerkinana walsky
 


Your wit and detail in knowledge is impressive. Did you study a related subject?



posted on Nov, 10 2007 @ 05:03 PM
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Since your stay at ATS, you have had a ready-made response of facts for each and every claim made for aliens, atlantis, egypt, etc.

From this I surmise that you work in the field or have studied it?



posted on Nov, 10 2007 @ 05:22 PM
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OK, firstly, this is a question for Scott Creighton. That being said, I will do my damnest to debunk the "Khufu built it theory".

1. It has already been established that carbon dating pretty much buries the Khufu theory.

2. We now must look at what evidence we supposedly DO have for construction by Khufu.

Basically-it's just ONE thing-dubious "workmen's graffiti", supposedly containing Khufu's name, which was probably faked.

www.eridu.co.uk...



posted on Nov, 10 2007 @ 05:31 PM
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reply to post by mentalempire
 


This is not ScottCreightons Forum, just in case you missed that.



posted on Nov, 10 2007 @ 05:33 PM
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reply to post by Skyfloating
 


Dude, no need to get indignant. Do you have a problem with Scott or something?



posted on Nov, 10 2007 @ 05:50 PM
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just a thought. just imagine living during this time. on the whole, people are living in small clay brick, or stone homes. that was the level of technology. then one day, the local king gets a bug up inside him and calls for the royal architect. he says to him " i want you to build this great structure out of huge blocks of stones, larger than anything carved before. and i want it for my tomb. no, not a grand palace that i can live in now, but a tomb. i want it so big that it will last for thousands of years and be bigger than anything else for thousands of years as well." no one else thinks this is rather far fetched? personally, i would rather want the palace NOW! the curve of technology just does not add up. small stones and clay bricks, then HUGE building? thats like the wright brothers building the sr71 blackbird after their small wood and cloth plane!





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