Anti-death penalty attorney in US commits suicide just when her cause was gaining momentum

Hmm, why not go the whole hog and bring back the electric chair and put it on PPV? Then death sentencing wouldn't be so expensive!!!

Whatever...

reply to post by Mirthful Me


Well said!

Whatever happened to "the punishment should fit the crime"? Personally, I feel it's this new mindset of "let's rehabilitate them" that is causing violent crime to become even MORE of a problem.

Why should anyone care what crime they commit if their "punishment" is to be stuck in a room for awhile talking about their past and their feelings and various methods of "getting in touch" with said feelings. Not to mention being given enough LEGAL "happy pills" to last 'til Armageddon.

Perhaps the self victim mentioned in the OP came to these conclusions as well.

Many people that think that certain repeat offenders can be rehabilitated are dreaming. Unless you have dealt with such people on a daily basis then please refrain from ignorant comments. Ignorant being, not knowing.

I have seen the nothingness that are in these people's actions, very cold, very thoughtless and care nothing about what others think. Most of these individuals do not think like you and I, they are sociopaths that repeat offend and care nothing of the consequences.

When people shout "rehab them", Treat them humanely, they do this from the comfort of their homes and never have to actually deal or rehab these individuals themselves. I propose that anyone that is a bleeding heart, take up a job in a correctional institution or law enforcement for a number of years, then see what your views will be.

The attorney that hung herself is a very strange case and I am sure that they will probably find that she was extremely depressed. Depression effects even the most prominent well to do folks.

[edit on 8-11-2007 by Realtruth]

reply to post by MacDonagh


I think that's a great idea!!

I'll tell you though, seeing someone get fried on television would be some pretty good motivation to not commit crimes.

While that is an extreme scenario, it kind of proves the point, criminals have nothing to fear anymore. What's stopping them from murdering or raping someone? A little community service? Maybe some intensive rehabilitation? Please.

Originally posted by MacDonagh
Hmm, why not go the whole hog and bring back the electric chair and put it on PPV? Then death sentencing wouldn't be so expensive!!!

Nah. Hanging is still cheaper. You let gravity do the work.

It's interesting that people are debating the death penalty in response to the news of Ms. McCalmont's death. That's testimony to the fact that it's a vital issue. It's ironic that in the end she imposed the death penalty on herself. It doesn't seem that she deserved it. Many people can hide their depression even from those closes to them. I don't think suicide is necessarily a selfish act. Sometimes the suicide believes that they matter so little no one will notice or care about their absence. If there's an afterlife or reincarnation--and I'm not sure about either one--I hope she finds peace. Meantime the issue she felt so passionately about will not die with her.

To help steer this thread back in the proper direction...

It's more and more unnerving that someone fighting for a good cause ends up "depressed" and "commits suicide". Suicide is a nice little quite end for all involved isnt it?!

reply to post by dave420


I would propose that many of the condemned are beyond "rehabilitation."

Certainly there's a valid desire to determine why the convicted and condemned turn out to be, in many cases, such violent anti-social predators.

Armed with this knowledge we could then, perhaps, take action to change the conditions that lead to these monsters.

There should be ample time to study and reach a conclusion, in the many, many years required for the legal system to actually carry out a death sentence, concerning the process whereby a human-being can devolve and mutate into the wretched perpetrator of violent crime.

And even though their crimes may have been heinous, should we commit a further act of barbarism by the infliction of undue suffering upon the condemned?

Execution by lethal injection takes much longer than any other method, often up to 45 minutes for the complete process during which the prisoner is fully conscious for 35-40 of those minutes (remember that in Britain a 20th century hanging took, typically 10-20 seconds to carry out). This duration must subject the prisoner to far more mental torture because they know they are being prepared for and being put to death.

Source | Hanging versus Lethal Injection.

Many would counter that the condemned deserve to suffer for their crimes, especially when innocents were subjected to their acts of depravity.

Under the procedure followed by most states, the condemned inmate is strapped to a gurney, sedated with sodium thiopental, injected with pancuronium bromide to collapse the diaphragm and lungs, and then administered potassium chloride to stop the heart. Death penalty opponents have argued for years that the procedure is a cold and painful way to kill people, and that even veterinarians do not recommend it in the euthanization of animals.
Condemned inmates are "alive all the way through the process, feeling pain until the bitter end," said Lisa McCalmont, a lawyer and consultant to the death penalty clinic at the University of California at Berkeley's law school.

Source | washingtonpost.com | A Reprieve in Nevada Adds to Lethal-Injection Drama
*Please Note* This article is dated Oct.16th. The quoted figure, Lisa McCalmont has since died by hanging...

And it's a sure bet Lisa McCalmont suffered greatly as she died:

It should be clearly understood that typically suicide by hanging will be very painful as there (is) hardly ever sufficient drop to break the neck.

Source | Is hanging painful?


If lethal injection causes prolonged suffering, though silent, then perhaps it's time to reconsider using this process as currently administered.

But is there a "better" method?


Of all the processes yet devised to execute the guilty, the method that produces the least suffering could arguably be the guillotine, but it's quite messy and unsightly, with all that blood and such:

The person guillotined becomes unconscious very quickly and dies from shock and anoxia due to haemorrhage and loss of blood pressure within less than 60 seconds. It has often been reported that the eyes and mouths of people beheaded have shown signs of movement. It has been calculated that the human brain has enough oxygen stored for metabolism to persist about 7 seconds after the supply is cut off. As in hanging, the heart continues to beat for some time after decapitation.
Various experiments have been made on guillotined heads and generally seem to show that little consciousness remains after 2-5 seconds of separation from the body although some have concluded that the head retains feeling for much longer. Whatever the truth, guillotining is probably one of the least cruel methods of execution and yet one that has a high deterrent value because it is perceived as gruesome.

Source | History of the Guillotine

Measured or "long drop" hanging would probably come in a close second:

It takes between a half and three quarters of a second for a person to reach the end of the drop after the trap opens. The force produced by the prisoner's body weight multiplied by the length of fall and the force of gravity, coupled with the position of the noose is designed to violently jerk the person’s head backwards and sideways. This causes a fracture-dislocation of the upper neck vertebrae, ideally between the C2 & C3 vertebrae, which crushes or severs the spinal cord leading to immediate unconsciousness. The cause of death is comatose asphyxia. It is thought that brain death will occur in around 6 minutes and whole body death normally within 10-15 minutes. It is very variable, however, with official reports of from 3-25 minutes for total death to have occurred. Some slight movements of the limbs and body may occasionally occur but are almost certainly due to spinal reflexes.

Source | Is hanging painful?

But again, gruesome and unsightly:

After death by any form of hanging, the body will typically show the marks of suspension, e.g. bruising and rope marks on the neck. In some cases there will have been effusions of urine and faeces as the sphincter muscles become deprived of oxygen and thus relax.

Source | Is hanging painful?

But, if done correctly, very little pain is felt:

...where the spinal cord is severed, a third of a second is the maximum possible time that any pain could be felt. This is born out by observation and the total lack of any obvious struggling.

Source | Is hanging painful?

Yeesh!

In truth, all these methods are gruesome.

But to be an effective deterrent, whichever method is used should be very public, so as to underscore the fact that we all bear the blood on our hands of the executed, and, just as importantly, we will not allow heinous crimes to go unpunished.

Originally posted by nyk537

I'll tell you though, seeing someone get fried on television would be some pretty good motivation to not commit crimes.

While that is an extreme scenario, it kind of proves the point, criminals have nothing to fear anymore. What's stopping them from murdering or raping someone? A little community service? Maybe some intensive rehabilitation? Please.

Originally posted by goosdawg
But to be an effective deterrent, whichever method is used should be very public, so as to underscore the fact that we all bear the blood on our hands of the executed, and, just as importantly, we will not allow heinous crimes to go unpunished.

I think that making executions public would have minimal deterrent effect. First of all, the revenue from a PPV would be sky-high from people who get their jollies from that sort of display. And I do believe that you would see the convicted volunteering and lining up to be hanged next.

Iow, public executions would only appeal to a fringe element in society. Those sick enough to rape and murder a child - a John Couey, for example - would glady be part of the circus of public executions.
Deterrent? Hah!

My views expressed above do not mean that I would not support public executions in some cases.

Hanging should be the only form of death penalty allowed.... bringing it back is a good idea.

Not all criminals can be re-educated to be sheeple. Serial rapist, murderers, etc just need to be hung.... so that their defective genes are eliminated from the gene pool.

Hanging is good..... it's cost effective - only need a rope and a tree.... and if the head snaps off you don't even need a doctor to confirm the death.

I long for the good ol' days.

-Euclid

[edit on 8-11-2007 by euclid]

[edit on 8-11-2007 by euclid]

If hanging is good enough for Sadam Hussein, then why not everybody else who deserves it. These people who are protesting capital punishment seem to forget that all these death row inmates have committed crimes that sentenced them to death. I imagine the people they killed didn't have a choice.
I say stick a needle in both arms and let them figure out which one is gonna kill them first.

quite the self righteous lot here.

wish i could find some up to date stats, but here, 13 cases had been overturned due to DNA evidence..
www.pbs.org...

from www.khou.com...

[Those who killed a white person were six times more likely to face the death penalty than someone convicted of killing a black person was.

“That, in terms of who gets sentenced to death, matters who you kill and where you do the killing,” said University of Maryland’s Ray Paternoster.

Forty-two people have been put to death in the U.S. this year, although executions are essentially on hold as the Supreme Court is now considering a challenge to lethal injection. ]

and as far as recitivisim, we all get one life, terrible to think it would be taken due to a case of mistaken identity. but tough breaks right?

and as far as deterrent? for offenders, i think its not as much nothing to fear as it is nothing to lose..

Back to the subject this time, I meant to put this in my other post. Now there should be an investigation done on her to see if she committed suicide or if there was foul play. If she committed suicide then I have no sympathy for her, but if there was foul play then they need to find the killer.

I'm tired of innocent people getting killed for five dollars in their pocket or a child getting molested and killed for a thrill. If they did it and there's no doubt that they did it or if they admitted to it then hell yeah I'm jumping the gun. These people need to be put to death right away with no taxes but the death procedures to pay for. I'll be glad to pay for that.

People might think twice about commiting a crime that get's them the death penalty if we would proceed in a speedy trial and put them to death right afterwards. I'm just tired of these criminals having the same rights as a good law abiding citizen.

Oh yeah, alot of those DNA test find DNA from the dead person's personal life or from prior sexual incounters, so when someone kills them they make sure they don't leave their DNA behind.

[edit on 11/8/2007 by Solarskye]

reply to post by goosdawg

Under the procedure followed by most states, the condemned inmate is strapped to a gurney, sedated with sodium thiopental, injected with pancuronium bromide to collapse the diaphragm and lungs, and then administered potassium chloride to stop the heart. Death penalty opponents have argued for years that the procedure is a cold and painful way to kill people, and that even veterinarians do not recommend it in the euthanization of animals.

I was a Veterinary Technician and I had to euthanize animals on a daily basis ... We used lethal injection on animals that were either very ill, badly injured, or aggressive. It was swift and appeared to be painless. There were times that the heart remained beating for a few minutes even though the proper dose was administered.

I'd like to know what other ways those veterinarians were euthanizing thier animals???? There was never any alternative unless they had a gas chamber but is that humane? In my opinion that would be more cruel and would cause more suffering.

I'm not going to argue the Death Penalty but I question the act of "putting persons to death" with mental illnesses .... However, the definition of a sociopath or a psychopath is defined as a mental illness. That's a tough call.

In a world full of fears, perhaps the worst one a human being should have is that to be afraid of his fellow man. The human that should be most feared is the one that has Anti-Social Personality Disorder or in psychology terms the sociopath and or psychopath. The psychopath is probably the most deviant mind that exists and treatment is not very successful because there is not a cure or drug to control it.

www.sociopathic.net...

Murder is not a crime if it's called suicide.