Police to carry army-grade artillery

WEST PALM BEACH, Florida (CNN) -- The war on the streets is escalating. As gangs and other criminals pack more firepower, police departments say they find themselves in an arms race.

"It's not nice we have to arm ourselves like the soldiers in Iraq," said Sgt. Laurie Pfeil, who supervises a sheriff's road patrol in Palm Beach County and is now certified to carry a semiautomatic AR-15 rifle on the job. It's the civilian version of the military's M-16 used by U.S. soldiers in Iraq.

"We are like soldiers. It is a war, " says Sgt Pfeil.

Source: www.cnn.com...


This cannot be good, in a world where cops overuse tazers
giving them army-grade weapons do not help.

This police against criminals ratcheding up of tension diverts thought from the real criminals, working class police, or working class criminals are not the problem.

I don't know if I would call an m16 "artillary". Its a small caliber rifle and is already used by alot of cops all around the country.

Also a tazer is different than a gun. If cops were over-using their 9mm handgun I would be worried but that doesnt seem to be the case.

.
.
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Dont Taze Me, Bro!!!

Confucious say beware of man with more fire power than you.
Confucious say next move will be "Every American must turn in their guns"
(Fail not at your peril)
Confucious say NWO around corner.

Originally posted by Golack
Also a tazer is different than a gun. If cops were over-using their 9mm handgun I would be worried but that doesnt seem to be the case.

You've never spent a night in Brooklynn!

Let me tell you, most police-related killings are in the "hood", like in New York boroughs, Compton, some parts of L.A., some parts of New Jersey.

There is a media blackout in these areas.

Now.... Watch this! Listen to words, regarding the Sean Bell shooting.

VERY IMPORTANT VIDEO


[edit on 6-11-2007 by ModernAcademia]

Criminals tend to carry bigger tazers than cops. Not surprise that criminals can carry more firepower than what police officers usually carry, which is a 9 mm handgun.

Remember the well known North Hollywood Shootout?

The military cant police us, so what do they do, they turn the police into the military, kinda neat how they always skate around the rules, kind a like there use of blackwater in iraq.

HUH??? "Army Grade Artillery"??? it's a semi-auto .223 in use by MANY Police dept's.... I'm thinking ModernAcademia/Sgt. Laurie Pfeil need to go back to school, not only to learn the differance between "Artillery" and a semi-auto rifle...

Whats the big deal? Cops have been using "military weapons" ever since the US Army gave them hand me down Thompsons and Springfield rifles left over from WW1 in the 1920s.

This is nothing new, my local department has been issuing AR-15s to Sgts and Lts as well as all qualified officers since the late 1990s. Before that they used the Ruger Mini 14 since the 1980s.

The police have had the option of carrying AR-15’s for a long time down here its nothing new. Also an AR-15 is a civilian version of the M-16, so its not really fair to say they are carrying military weapons. If it was a military weapon then they would have M-16’s.

When Bonnie and Clyde had 50 cal. guns, they would overwhelm the authorities they met with fire power. This case, the authourties used the same weapons to bring them down. Now its a could idea to give the police a choice of weapons to use to protect and serve the public, as this is what they are paid for.

More lies by CNN in their campaign against guns.

These firearms aren't army-grade and the OPs use of the term artillery is hyperbolic, at best.

Designed to be fired from the hip, assault rifles such as the AK-47 can spray at a rate of up to 600 rounds a minute in full automatic mode. It is the weapon of choice for guerillas and gangsters.

These weapons are not designed to be fired from the hip. You can't sight a weapon from your hip. Some people can shoot accurately from the hip, but they are few and far between and criminals are not in this class of shooter. This kind of shooting is for demonstrations and wowing crowds.

It's just one more lie by a dishonest journalist, just like the assertion that fully automatic weapons are the weapon of choice of criminals. Not even the statistics in this article support that assertion.

As a result, the Brady organization supports police officers arming themselves with high-powered weapons "to protect themselves and their communities," he said.

The assault weapons talked about here are not high-powered weapons. "Assault rifles" (a bogus term as used in this article) are medium-powered weapons. Police departments do use high-powered weapons, but those are sniper rifles, or in everyday talk, hunting rifles. Who cares what the Brady organization thinks, they don't know their stacking swivel from their butt-plates.

Cops prefer to squeeze off single shots in semiautomatic mode because it makes for more accurate shooting. Some semiautomatic weapon's can fire with pinpoint accuracy from as far as 100 yards away. The magazines used by law enforcement typically carry 20 or 30 rounds, adding to the ability to better respond under fire.

Oh my God! Pinpoint accuracy from 100 YARDS away! I don't know what is meant by pinpoint accuracy. The round is a big determining factor in how accurate any firearm is, as well as other factors that are too numerous to note here. The shooter is probably the most important variable. One hundred yards is not that far for long arms chambered for anything police are likely to use, except for pistol cartridge carbines. Most decent rifles are capable of MOA accuracy.

Assault weapons have been used to kill eight people and wound 25 here over the last two years.

Even if the the term assault weapon was being used accurately here, which it is probably not, this is a minuscule number and deaths by knives is probably higher. This is not meant to minimize the tragedy of these deaths.

"The streets of South Florida are being flooded by AK-47s and assault weapons from old Soviet bloc countries. It's driven the price down, making the availability greater," said Chief Timoney.

This might be true, but these weapons, if they are automatic, are not legally imported and gun ban laws would make a zero impact on this problem.

If the guns in question are semi-automatic, they are like any semi-automatic, which means that they fire only one round with each pull of the trigger.

Cops prefer to squeeze off single shots in semiautomatic mode because it makes for more accurate shooting.

Note how the "journalist" admits that in semi-auto mode the cops can only squeeze off one round at a time. I'm pretty sure that cops don't have a choice, since I'm not aware of police carrying fully automatic weapons.

Here's an example. These are scary looking guns, but functionally, they are no different than any semi-auto that fires one round with each pull of the trigger.

www.eastcoastfirearms.com...

The Miami Police Department said 15 of its 79 homicides last year involved assault weapons, up from the year before. So far this year, 12 of 60 killings have involved the high-powered arms.

Again, there's that use of the term high-powered.

These are not high-powered weapons. Deadly, yes, but the use of these terms that scare those who don't know the truth is unacceptable by any news agency, but it's the norm, sadly.

I've gone over the problems with the "assault weapon" ban before on this board many times.

Ugly guns are not necessarily more deadly guns. A gun that looks like a fully automatic military weapon is not necessarily such and cops more than most people should know this.

Crime is a problem in America. Criminals use firearms often for their nefarious deeds.

That's one of the reasons the Constitution affirms the right of the people to keep and bear arms, so that we can protect ourselves from predators.

Banning firearms because they look ugly makes no sense.

Adequately arming police to handle the problems makes a lot of sense.

If criminals in South Florida are carrying fully automatic weapons, that's a problem, but there are already laws against these weapons, except by special permit, and linking the semi-auto guns to automatic weapons is not only disingenuous, it's downright stupid.


[edit on 2007/11/7 by GradyPhilpott]

Originally posted by zman
When Bonnie and Clyde had 50 cal. guns, they would overwhelm the authorities they met with fire power. This case, the authourties used the same weapons to bring them down. Now its a could idea to give the police a choice of weapons to use to protect and serve the public, as this is what they are paid for.

Bonnie and Clyde used, among other weapons, the .45 caliber Thompson sub-machine gun.

They did not use .50 caliber firearms.

Thanks Grady that was a very nice informative post

I thought that Florida has one of the best gun laws around.

Why now all this big deal about criminals been better armed than the police.

I guess this is when Black water mercenaries could be look at for their services to help the overwhelmed police protect citizens better.

Will the state hire security firms to help police work? or to train police into street combat?

I wonder.

That news article was the most slanted BS i've had the displeasure to read in a long time. They're spinning up the machine to get that 2007 version of the Brady bill passed, now with double the restrictions!!

I'm glad to see there are a couple other people that saw it for what it was. I'll see if I can find the stats for the most common weapons used in robberies/violent crimes/murders.

As stated by Grady in his excellent post, the criminals aren't going through the paperwork process to get their guns, and anyone that's ever tried to get a class 3 tax stamp knows exactly what i'm talking about.

Basically every "factual" statement made by cnn-communist news network- in that article is false. Look up the murder rate in DC, no guns = 7th highest murder rate, after more then 15 years of intense crackdowns.

[edit on 7-11-2007 by patriot13]

[edit on 7-11-2007 by patriot13]

Originally posted by Oneshot1
HUH??? "Army Grade Artillery"??? it's a semi-auto .223 in use by MANY Police dept's.... I'm thinking ModernAcademia/Sgt. Laurie Pfeil need to go back to school, not only to learn the differance between "Artillery" and a semi-auto rifle...

Why does everyone keep saying this. The military uses M-16s do they not? So there for if police are carrying M-16s they are carrying "army grade artillery" Am i wrong? I think not. Yes it is .223 that is what the M-16 is chamberd for

Originally posted by xHADEEZx

Originally posted by Oneshot1
HUH??? "Army Grade Artillery"??? it's a semi-auto .223 in use by MANY Police dept's.... I'm thinking ModernAcademia/Sgt. Laurie Pfeil need to go back to school, not only to learn the differance between "Artillery" and a semi-auto rifle...

Why does everyone keep saying this. The military uses M-16s do they not? So there for if police are carrying M-16s they are carrying "army grade artillery" Am i wrong? I think not. Yes it is .223 that is what the M-16 is chamberd for

A rifle is not f'ing artillery. Artillery is LARGE-caliber weapons, such as cannons, mortars, howitzers, and missile launchers. Myself along with most people dont consider a .223/.556 rifle cartridge as being artillery. The cartridge is no bigger than my pinky finger. Yes the Military uses M-16's which are fully automatic. Police use AR15's which are semi automatic and is the civilian equivalent to the M16. The thread title is misleading and what is the big deal with Police carrying Ar15's? When any joe blow that is over the age of 18, free of a felony and never been involuntarily admitted to a mental institute can purchase a ar15, a semi automatic ak47 or any other rifle? Certain Police Departments have been equipping themselves with ar15's since the early 90's.

The Semi-Automatic M1911 was the standard-issue side arm for the United States armed forces from 1911 to 1985.

It was widely used in World War I, World War II, the Korean War and the Vietnam War.

Also, u.s. military will soon be using semi-automatic sniper rifles.

I'm just saying, semis aren't for public safety

ModernAcademia... A semi-auto action is not evil...it is just another system of firearms operation. Would you be all rosey and warm feeling if they had a muzzleloader, with one shot and long re-load time??? or a single action revolver?? The Colt.45 and it's clones(Glocks, H&K's etc.) are used by most LEO's today and have been for many years, Bet ya 90%+ of LEO's carry a semi-auto...Back to School with you...

i dunno man... police abuse their power of authority especially when it comes to weapons.. granted there are places where im from where cops will not go simply because the crack and heroin addicts and dealers have so much more fire power than the cops do..so in that case, giving the swat teams and drug task forces more firepower would be acceptable. but the normal ordinary dick of a police officer doesnt need anymore power. just my 2 cents..