Actually the term "Fastmover" is not for one particular aircraft but for any supersonic (or faster) vehicle.

Also, I'm not so sure the aircraft that was the fruition of the 1980's Aurora budget line has been given to NASA... (I'd like to hear Valhall's thoughts on that)

I do however strongly believe that a waverider design is currently operational and flying recon sorties for the intelligence agencies.

Originally posted by TheButcher
So i was watching modern marvels on the history chanell (it was on jet engines) and about 2 mins before it ended they made reference to the Aurora (they claimed it would probably be Mach 8....or was it Mach 5? sorry can't remember). Anyways, at the end they interviewed an aviation historian working for Edwards AFB (again, I think) and he said something like 'in my opinion, the Aurora existed for a period, but was decomisioned.'

Now if this is true, seeing as how every Intel guy in the world will tell you that sat intel is NOT suffecient, and that you have to have some sort of on demand spy plane, what has the USAF/CIA/NSA cooked up now?

They would be working on a 4th gen spy plane (U-2, SR-71 blackbird, the aurora or SR-75 as I have seen it called). What would this 4th gen spy plane be capable of?

A theory of mine, is that it would be nuclear powered, whatever it is and if it exists. Both the US and Russia were trying to power a plane with a nuclear reactor as early as the 50's because of the unlimited range and loiter time. I am sceptical though of any "anti grav" type theories, as i simply doubt we are at the point where we can harness a gravity field (at least without help from our local friendly greys)

I have also read of some supposedly triangle shaped craft that somehow reduces its wieght by 89%. Anyone know anything of this?

Please give opinions and if you can givee any links and/or facts.

NOTE: I Recently introduced my friend Jerry to this forum. As he is away from home and helping me with a project here, where I live, I opted to allow him to reply to this topic. A little unusual I must admit, however be assured Jerry will be joining ATS when he returns home, and I am sure we can all look forward to his insights and understanding of various topics he is well versed with. He will soon be a valued member of ATS.



I do believe I have some information of interest to the topic.

Let me give myself a brief introduction. I am Jerry Clay. I am a metallurgical engineer by training with twenty years experience.

One odd fact that I have gleaned in my research is the eccentric behavior of the metal bismuth under the influence of a magnetic field. I do believe that a persistant researcher could find references to this apparent loss of mass, although I do not personally have the references at my fingertips at present.

On the other hand, I have run the experiment myself with an old (but extremely sensitive) mechanical microbalance composed entirely of non magnetic materials such as austenitic stainless steel. Standard quantitative laboratory procedures for measuring mass were maintained, simply using a commercial pvc weighboat and manipulating clean objects on the balance with tongs or tweezers. My experimental method is also as simple as it sounds, viz. taring out the balance and weighing the lump of bismuth metal under the "normal" background magnetic flux of the earth. The bismuth was then removed from the weighboat, and I did observe the balance return to zero, the laboratory indication that a correct mass number of grams and a little change was measured by the machine.

Next, with the balance still tared at zero, a large horseshoe magnet was carefully slid around the weigh platen supporting the weigh boat. The balance remained tared at zero without even a momentary deflection or bobble being induced from the magnetic field.

The lump of bismuth was then replaced in the weighboat, and a new 'apparent' mass recorded. As I remember, the apparent loss of mass (really a loss of weight (force), that is the result of the mass of bismuth being subject to the acceleration of earth's gravity) as being on the order of 12%. After the lump of bismuth was removed the tare of the scale remained at 0.

Other objects and materials (non magnetic by necessity) placed in the weighboat showed the same mass whether the magnet was in place or not. The client (actually co-researcher) who requested the test be run would (I believe) still have the original laboratory notes. He is an ex-placer miner from Nome, Alaska. I have a copy too, but it is just the raw calculations from my daily notebook. Next time I see him I will ask after the data.

In any case, the experiment is simple and should be readily reproducible. On the other hand, like most scientific data, the results beg a whole series of more extensive and variable testing. I.e., does the bismuth have the same resistance to the various forms of penetrating radiation saturated with magnetism as it does under control conditions? What are the optimum levels of magnetism? Do N or S magnetism have different effects? I can think of many more questions to try to answer by simple practical research.

I choose to hypothesize that the mass of the bismuth remains the same in the magnetic field. This could be proven by the radiation shielding experiments. Therefore (if the data supports the hypothesis) by the simple equation of Force = Mass x Acceleration (in this case the acceleration is 'g' the acceleration due to gravity on earth) if the force of weight of the object decreases, either the mass has decreased or the acceleration due to gravity has decreased, or both. If the radiation blocking shows that the metal is still shielding radiation while subject to a magnetic field just as it does in control conditions, then it follows that it is the acceleration due to gravity that has been locally altered by the experiment. The force required to lift the bismuth has been reduced. Strange enough.

My experience in physical metallurgy leads me to believe that anyone with half a brain, given that natural observation and the opportunity to perform some hard work could compose an alloy that might maximize these effects.

Thank you for letting me impose on your forum unregistered etc. I most likely will sign up into 'Above Top Secret' at some point, but right now I have rather limited internet access, as I am away from home. It is better for me right now to just read what is going on for a little while longer anyway.

There is a sign behind the bar where my miner co-experimenter and I occasionally wet our whistles. It says something like "You can sit on your stool and remain silent, and everybody here will think you are a fool. Or, you can open your mouth and remove all doubt."

So please excuse me for holding some of my wild speculations close to my chest for the present. This should be enough information to allow further references to be found and interesting experiments conducted, in any case.

I agree Intelgurl that fast mover is not just one plane. But it could be what ever exotic planes they have at Groom Lake. I just used the " manta tr-3b" as an example.

As far as if it was given to NASA well if you look at the general idea of aurora " the rumored specs" and you look at hyper X its pretty darn close to me . Im not saying its an exact copy" why would nasa need a spy/stratigec hypersonic bomber" Its probably been reworked to serve as a RLV for NASA.

The very name 'Aurora' implies that it might have an electrokinetic drive component to use in low-earth orbit. The atmospheric ionization caused by the electric propulsion may have inspired the craft's name.

Very speculative, I know, but worth considering, especially if there are sightings of glowing triangles by astronomers (I don't know of any).

If the B-2 has supplemental electrokinetic drive they'd be crazy not to try it on a very high-flying vehicle like the Aurora, IMO.

[Edited on 4-2-2004 by Condorcet]

While there may be other, more exotic aircraft flying, I believe that the Aurora is a "conventional" air-breathing hypersonic waverider. It's advanced enough to get the pics taken when it matters, not get shot down but also not to cause a UFO-type flap if one DOES go down... the SR-71 and A-12 caused a lot of speculation even when made public (such as people wondering why there was gold plating on the inside of the fuel tanks...)

Well there are two facts we need to remember here:

1. Aurora first appeared as a line in a buget request, so it's a Code Name for something that they are or were working on; individual code names are decommisioned every so often and replaced for security reasons (For example: the B-2 origionally started out with the code name Senior CJ and Later Became Senior Ice)

2. Second, their may be a new version of the plane flying under the control of a new user, so it useing a new name. (For Example: the Blackbirds first flew as the CIA owned A-12 under the Code Name Oxcart and the later SR-71 used the Code Name Senior Crown)

So hold off on assuming the plane is being withdrawn from service or cancelled until we have had more time to look into all of the facts. You might be correct, or the goverment may have covered their tracks in an effort to throw us off the trail. It's too early to know for sure.

Tim
ATS Director of Counterignorance

[Edited on 4-2-2004 by ghost]