Israel to get F-35 before UK

www.defenseindustrydaily.com...

Now the Jerusalem Post reports the Pentagon has agreed to supply the F-35A Lightning II variant to Israel as early as 2012, instead of in 2014 or 2015. This would make Israel one of the first nations to receive the aircraft, and very possibly the first foreign nation.

not overly happy of the source they use (jerusalem post) as its known bias - but at least its better than debka who just make stuff up.


now , how will this go down with everyone else who has boughtinto the programme and paid for a delivery slot? to be jumped over like this will not sit well.

Tbh the only thing i'm suprised about is that it wasn't the F22 that they got, i'm not sure what it is but the Isreali's certainly seem to have some kind of hold over both past and present US administrations.

If I thought the USAF had learned anything from the CF-188 programe I guess I was wrong. The CF-188 testing was probably some of the best joint work between 2 forces to work through the problems and make a plateform feasable for export. Well thats the thanks u get eh.

I'd like to see the rational behind this decision if it is confirmed. Israel has enough of en edge over the entire ME when it comes to Air power not to need to the F-35 before 2014-2015. We should not even sell them the F-35 due to their policies of using our systems to boost their home grown defense industry which then competes against ours and even deals with future enemies like China (i.e. technology transfer). That is the reason they were kicked off the then JSF program in the first place, but I guess the lobby didn't like that so they went to work… In any case if we must sell them the F-35 due to spineless politicians we should delay that sale as much as possible (and take away as many of the caveats as possible) for the very reason they want to the F-35 early; to "fly into downtown Tehran without anyone even knowing about it…". If anything Israel needs to be kept on a leash by the west due to their history and policies. No ones should get preferential treatment, the order of export should be decided by the level of involvement in the program. Although personally I would place a five year export delay to ensure that the US has sufficient forces of all versions before units are diverted off the production line to foreign costumers.

reply to post by WestPoint23


The tight leash is what a country like Israel gets for being as bold and inovative as they are with the raid on the reactor and the suex canal you are careful what you give this nation cause they will use it.

I don't like this preferential treatment that Israel seems to be getting. They should wait as anyone else and even more since they entered the program late. It's simply not fair for all the other countries that are waiting.

The UK has just recieved the most advance strike fighter in the world, they are a country which is in a relative safe situation and have only close allies on all sides. Israel on the other hand is a small country representing the only country in the middle east which is democratic, has a free press and is surrounded by non allied nations, some of which have decreed a wish to wipe them from the face of the earth.

It is not suprising therefore that they should be given precedence over a country who looks to America when it suits them and turns their back on them when the going gets tough.

On the subject of selling technology, Israel has done the same as what the US does on a far more regular and greater basis to many of Israel's enemies.

I look forward to seing the fist Lightning II in IDAF colours.

Jensy

Jensy

What is more, is that Israel will be purchasing the 'vanilla flavoured' F-35A, whereas the RAF and FAA will be recieving them the more advanced F-35B which will take longer to reach production (2013 rather than 2011).

reply to post by Harlequin


wounder how long it will take for the chineese to get their hands on these toys now
with Iran following from China,

Originally posted by jensy
It is not suprising therefore that they should be given precedence over a country who looks to America when it suits them and turns their back on them when the going gets tough.

Are you kidding me? This has to rate up there as one of the most absurd things I have ever read. I would hesitate to even consider Israel a true "ally" (in the traditional sense) of the US let alone place them above the UK which in my mind has been one of the greatest allies in American history. So, your statement holds no water when it comes to the British but it applies perfectly to Israel, it is a country that cannot be trusted. If ones looks at its political and military history and relations with other nations, the US included, we can see that they will not hesitate to bite even the hand that feeds them if they find it suitable.

Originally posted by jensy
On the subject of selling technology, Israel has done the same as what the US does on a far more regular and greater basis to many of Israel's enemies.

Israel is in no position to imitate what the US does nor to question it, considering they depend on us for political, economic and military survival. The fact that they sell and share our technology with foreign costumers (China no less) without our authorization speaks volumes. Not to mention the technical know how we give their industry which they in turn use to compete with us on the domestic and international market. Secondly, Saudi Arabia, Egypt and all other stable current ME countries are no longer an immediate threat to Israel. They may like to have complete dominance of the ME to do as they please but at the same time a peaceful balance needs to be kept in place.

reply to post by bodrul


That is no longer likely to happen, much less at an alarming scale.

[edit on 31-10-2007 by WestPoint23]

What exactly makes the F-35B superior to the F-35A?

I believe that the F-35B has a special ability as a jump-jet. Possibly why it is so attractive to the European nations with small sized carriers (relative to America's super carriers of course).

Israel getting the F-35 early? What a bunch of BS, they don't need it. How many of the ME nations have anything to counter? As of now, isn't Israel among the most technologically and sophisticated nations in the ME? Pushing the limits at the expense of others I see.

Shattered OUT...

Just to build on what SS said, in terms of capability the F-35B is no more advanced as the F-35A and vise versa as they will both have identical systems. What the F-35B gains in STOVL operations it loses in available weapons carriage, range and internal gun. The production and IOC schedule has nothing to do with how advanced the different version are but rather with the manufacturing and testing program.

Giveing Isreal the F35 will just make the ME more unbalanced and unstable in the same way it did when they were given nuke's, the reason Iran and Syria are working toward's nuke's is very likely to counter the threat Isreal poses to them (with them being the only nuclear power in the region) and giveing them the F35 will just increase the arm's race in the ME further and increase tension's rather than stabaliseing them.

Originally posted by ShatteredSkies
What exactly makes the F-35B superior to the F-35A?

When I said more advanced, I meant more complicated. In that respect the F-35B is in that it has STOVL ability.




Westpoint & Bodrul, I wont even bother to reply to either of you due to your repsect track records.

Jensy

Originally posted by solidshot

Tbh the only thing i'm suprised about is that it wasn't the F22 that they got, i'm not sure what it is but the Isreali's certainly seem to have some kind of hold over both past and present US administrations.

Well, duh... It's all documented in this exc ellent book.

[edit on 1-11-2007 by Aelita]

Ahh well now you see that's two different things.

Complicated true, the F-35B has made some sacrifices in order to retain the jump jet capability.

Superior, not so much, I'd say both aircraft are on the same level of usefulness.

Shattered OUT...

reply to post by WestPoint23


if thats the case, why does the US fund and give them these toys
if in the end of the day the israelis are just going to back stab your country?

reply to post by jensy


Likewise, hence why you dont see me replying to your replies (apart from this one as you mentioned me by name)

Why doesn’t that surprise me, they both kiss each others asses anyway. The US needs to have friends with air superiority in the region - and this is how to do it.

Originally posted by bodrul
if thats the case, why does the US fund and give them these toys...

Well, the pro Israeli lobby in the US is very influential and widespread, beside having members in government positions, policy, advisors etc... they also have a very robust process and campaign by which most members of congress and even those in the executive branch are “kept under checked”. It is something that no one in power likes to admit nor expectably state but it is the undisputable truth. Any congress person who votes or generally acts against what the lobby considers to be in Israelis interest "blacklisted" so to say and their chances of getting re elected are very dim. For example, every member of congress which is elected gets a letter form the pro Israeli lobby asking them to explain where they stand on various issues and how they view the US-Israel relationship. Now this is all legal and so far has worked like a charm as losing your congressional seat is a big deal, hence we have spineless representatives who are more interested in their own status than the well being of THIS country. This is just a brief description of how it works and of what’s really going on but you get the point, this book goes into much more shocking detail, I recommend you order and read it, or any of the following books listed here.

The following links below help explain the situation.

Irael Lobby in the United States
AIPAC Espionage Scandal
Israel-United States Relations

As Jimmy Carter said where asked a question on this topic, he smiled and said to the effect of 'well if any elected politician did that their chances of getting reelected are reduced'.

Interesting stuff.......

While this is off topic, Westy, you and others have made the point concerning the Israeli lobby and that in effect your government is run by 'forces' outside the US.

With the rise of American patriotism, this brings up the point 'how can you tolerate your country being merely a puppet of a much less powerful country'? I am simply stunned that so many would just sit back and allow this situation to exist.

You all speak of the matter as if you cannot do anything about it - it's the problem of spineless politicians. Sorry, but that sounds to me to be pretty spineless in itself. I'm not talking about a revolution or independent violent action - but if you all feel so strongly about it, get out on the hustings with your own political party and make a difference. It is obvious that writing a book to tell everyone about the situation has absolutely no effect on the politicians at all. Freedom of speech effectively countered by the freedom to ignore you!

Unfortunately, it seems that America's much vaunted political system is simply a sham based on who controls the money. Even in Australia, those who do not agree with the way things are done in Government, go ahead and create new political parties with new and different goals - sure they don't change government overnight by taking power, but by their existence they subtly alter the policies and behaviour of the major parties. It appears that with only two parties representing the American population, they can ignore anyone who disagrees with their, oh so similar policies.

The Winged Wombat