Michael Moore - Your NHS is a beacon to the world

www.sundaymirror.co.uk... 19985100

When I think of UK NHS the only image that comes to mind is the "Hospital" episode of Absolutely Fabulous where Edina and Patsy go in for minor surgery and a facelift respectively. When Edina's mother passed out after seeing Patsy's face Eddy yelled at the staff that she was NHS (apparently not wanting them to treat her mother).

The NHS gets a lot of bad press, which is sad because it is a fundamentally good institution and one that I would not choose to be without. Whilst Michael Moore's documentaries are sometimes slightly biased (), I agree with him on the NHS... you don't hear much about the success stories, do you? But that's the same with everything in the modern media. Doom and gloom sells newspapers and gains viewers, I'm afraid.

I'm quite bemused when I hear Americans throw around words like 'socialised' medicine, but it's interesting to hear another point of view. One of the key reasons for creating the NHS was the experience that the UK had throughout the Second World War - the US experience was vastly different. No rationing, no U-Boat peril, no air raids, no threat of invasion... and this is, I think, where many outsiders fall down in trying to understand why the NHS is so important in British politics. Even our most right wing leader of recent times, Margaret Thatcher, dare not utter the word 'privatise' and 'NHS' in the same sentence.

[edit on 25/10/07 by Ste2652]

reply to post by djohnsto77


Curious, how many americans go without medical care?

also on topic
The NHS isn't great but it isn't bad either
and it is getting a lot of bad press, most recent hygiene in the wards and spread of infections, but then again that's more to do with the people left in charge of the Hospitals.

in my 20's I went without medical care.
I had NO insurance, and did not make enough money to be able to pay for a doctors visit.

I did ALLOT of praying to not die when I got sick.............

I am not some weird fringe person either....so no way was I (am I) alone......

In fact I am going to make a thread asking USA folks to speak up if they are uninsured......I bet the numbers will be surprising.

Interesting, theRiverGoddess.

From your own experiences, would you support an American version of the National Health Service?

Originally posted by Ste2652
I'm quite bemused when I hear Americans throw around words like 'socialised' medicine,

Yes and Americans tend to think every NHS hospital has this hanging in their halls;

reply to post by infinite


Are you trying to tell me you don't have posters like that plastered all across your local Peoples' Hospital, comrade? The horror! Our Great Leader must be informed at once!

Seriously, though, it's a huge misconception but highlights a big difference between British and American societies. The US is still a highly capitalist place; the only major institution that's run and funded by the government is the military (since it can't make its own money by definition), whereas I think from the late nineteenth century onwards, Britain has taken a different route. Being the nation that was at the front of the Industrial Revolution changed our national psyche, I think, and the world wars reinforced the desire for institutions like the NHS and free (or at least heavily subsidised these days...) education for all, right up to university level and beyond. Like it or not, Britain is still a capitalist society - money does matter a lot. But it's less 'extreme' (not the best way to describe it, I know...) than America.

[edit on 26/10/07 by Ste2652]

In terms of social welfare, Europe is far more advanced than America. Our governments see health as a human right, where as the United States feel the government should not be seen as a "mother" to their citizens.

We in Europe understand that parts of our economy, like health care, should not be a competition driven by profits. Last time I heard, 50 million Americans don't have healthcare....that equals 90% of the UK population. The most poorest in the UK, including the homeless, have access to health care.

We should be proud of the NHS more.

[edit on 27-10-2007 by infinite]

From your own experiences, would you support an American version of the National Health Service?

From my experiences, though I am not who you were asking, a NHS type system would not work in America. I am not saying it doesn't work, I am saying that the American Government will find a way to mess it up.

Just look at the Veterans Hospitals. After I had a short stint in one, I would say that the government needs to stay away from medicine. It was dirty, it was falling apart and the technology was drastically outdated.

What I think our government should do is help lower the prices of medicine. Medicine, unlike other markets (like technology), is getting MORE EXPENSIVE. It's so expensive because of the government bureaucracies that drive up prices due to extensive government restrictions, and corperate greed among other things. Why should it cost $2000 a night just to STAY in the hospital?

I would welcome an NHS if our government didn't suck so hard at getting anything done correctly. A 'government worker' is an oxymoron in our country.

Well I can give the NHS the thumbs up, I have been under their care for the last 13 months and still are and although not everything has gone to plan I have no real complaints.

The british can keep the tea and their NHS for we do not need or want it in America. I say this in good british humor...

reply to post by Xtrozero


Ohhhhhhhh dont worry we shall keep them both



I am moer proud of the Doctors and the Nurses who work all the hours to make sure both the NHS both public and private are the best in the world. Oks the NHS does sometimes have its downfalls. i.e. superbugs, cleanliness of some hospitals, (blames private cleaning contractors and management of hospitals not the Nursing staff).. Apart from that I would take my hat of to them allw ho work in the NHS.

I just thought I would clarify, as some have mentioned it here, that the MRSA and C.Difficile bugs are not an NHS or even a hygiene problem. They are a natural result of overuse of disinfectants and anti-biotics. It was only a matter of time that these bugs, which are present on EVERY humans skin all the time, would develop a resistance to treatments we have.

They are common in all Western/Modern hospitals. From Europe to the UK, right across the pond to the USA and Canada. It is a developed world problem, not an NHS problem.

They also only pose a risk, even the "superbugs", when a patient has wounds in their skin and they are immune suppressed, usually as a case of being ill. With a nice open wound to infect and a weak patient, these bugs take hold quickly. Naturally, being immune to most anti-bio regimes, it makes them appear like "deadly killers", when really it is just the next stage in the constant fight against infection.

Quite right stu.

Between the abuse of antibiotics (dilution and/or adulteration) and the rather childish attitudes to cleaning we are creating rods for our own backs in future years.

Surely the most obvious thing that ought to be considered when you hear those ads claiming 'xyz' cleaner kills 99.9% of all known germs! is, ok, so what about that 0.1% of germs the disinfectants don't work on now that you've just removed all it's competitors from the scene?

(and if 'lay' people aren't asking this kind of thing - and who can blame them - then what about the so-called professionals?)

I do think there is a general public health/hygiene issue here to consider generally too
(for instance, it's really pretty appalling the number of people who will admit to not washing their hands after going to the toilet).

I'm also not convinced that our hospitals are cleaned as well as they once were either
(IMO that's a classic example of 'privatisation' failing, paying peanuts for the service and getting half a job done - as well as a general failure of the management in charge of making sure contracts were met).

But I have to say that overall between the stories my grandparents and parents told of pre-NHS times and today's reality I genuinely think we are very lucky to live in a period where we have the NHS.
We ought to value it even more IMO.

[edit on 19-11-2007 by sminkeypinkey]

We ought to value it even more IMO.

Probably the only issue i've ever agreed with you on. The NHS is an example to the world. Our problem is that we have become complacent with it; criticising the system at every given opportunity. I could not live with myself knowing that my neighbour needed a heart by-pass, but could not afford it.

However, the real ethics comes in to the argument when your neighbour is a work-shy drug addict or a career criminal. Would you feel so bad then?

I wouldn't feel so bad if the addict or crim was made to break rocks for roads on a Scottish island, or was made to cut grass for the elderly, or was forced to paint playparks.

The real problem the NHS has is the disparity in the amount that I have paid throughout my life to the amount my neighbour may have paid.

Either way, it's an extremely difficult issue to address.

Before Mr.Moores film was out or i even knew it existed i posted this thread.

The NHS - Some Priase Deserved

I think it shows my opinion, the NHS isn't perfect, but it's far superior to the american system, and i speak as someone whos recently become unwell enough that i can't work.

Well I guess I'll have to be the first Brit in this thread to criticise the NHS. Before I continue I'll say that I have no idea what the speed or quality of healthcare in the US is like.

My girlfriend has been back and forth for treatment for her hip and despite 2 years of extremely scarce consultation they still have no idea what's wrong with her. Of course, Doctors don't know everything and there will always be blindspots, but when she had an operation postponed 3 times, adding 5 months to an already 6-month wait, she grew incredibly depressed and frustrated. Sure the healthcare's free, but a young woman shouldn't have to wait 11 months for an operation when she's in agony day-to-day. Having said that, she's probably got her money's worth with the couple of ops she's had.

Personally I'd rather opt out of NHS treatment and spend my saved taxes on private healthcare. It's a fantastic concept and if done properly, would be phenomenal. Unfortunately, I'm skeptical that it offers quite the value-for-money everyone assumes it does.

perhaps this skepticism could be solved by an annual breakdown of precisely what our taxes are spent on. I'd certainly welcome that.