Question to the sites staff about anti-american sentimant on ATS.

Oh yeah, for the record I am American. I am complaining about the flame wars I see between foreigners and Americans that think their view about politics is right or wrong.

Originally posted by worldwatcher
Some members might say there is Anti-Western sentiment, others might say Anti-Muslim, Anti-Christian, Anti-Atheist, Anti-Religion sentiments all exist here...etc... But I think that it is a matter of personal perception.

Correct! In fact you don't even think it, you know it (or you do now at least). It turns out that there have been studies on this sort of thing and people always feel threatened. Even by the Media, for example, studies have shown that 'both sides' will often feel the same "threatening" effect from the same neutral broadcast.

In one study by Robert Vallone, Lee Ross and Mark Lepper, pro-Palestinian students and pro-Israeli students at Stanford University were shown the same news filmstrips pertaining to the then-recent Sabra and Shatila massacre of Palestinian refugees by Christian Lebanese militia fighters in Beirut during the Lebanese Civil War. On a number of objective measures, both sides found that these identical news clips were slanted in favor of the other side.
en.wikipedia.org...

MORE

reply to post by Maverickhunter


I'm guessing that the fundamental problem here is that you've confused "America" with The Establishment. "U.S. Foreign Policy" (F.P.) surely has much to do with the "America" construct I'm referring to.

Like attacks on GWB, or the US Government, or the US economic system as it is, or the mighty F.P. and its spawn might all be percieved as attacks on "America", to you? I find this is often the case. That's because we've all been indoctrinated our entire lives to associate these things as one in the same, like conditioned reflexes.

When we realize that our ruling masters aren't actually America, but instead WE are, then the "anti-American" perception can begin to dwindle. But then we are faced with the current society that is the result of overlapping generations of our masters ongoing indoctrinating propaganda. I'm guessing again that you've encountered this type of "anti-Americanism"?

I'm hoping you can take the latter sort as motivational constructive criticism, which our society badly needs. But the parts relating to the Establishment, who runs the show and our lives, needs unprecidented criticism. I find it hard for hardly any sort of intelectual discussion to not include some at some point. Many would argue the same for our societal Culture of Ignorance scenario. But these criticisms shouldn't be considered as one in the same.

And in case you missed it: George Bush, and etc and so forth AREN'T AMERICA. Criticizing them isn't "America" bashing. And furthermore, Patriotism isn't the blind worship of the nation, or our rulers, instead that is Nationalism (current discussion thread on this matter.

[edit on 9-10-2007 by IgnoranceIsntBlisss]

reply to post by IgnoranceIsntBlisss


Bravo IIB.

i know thats exactly how i view it too, and the same about little johnny here in Australia. to be critical of him is not being negative towards australia or australians as a whole.

of course i do hope ppl realise my sig is a joke and not meant with any malice towards my many yankee friends

reply to post by IgnoranceIsntBlisss


Hey that's an interesting study! I will add it to my list of media-psychology effects. Thanks for the link, first time I've heard of it

On topic: yeah, what worldwatcher said, and... this type of threads seem to pop up every month or two. So...

reply to post by Freeborn


we are not all a bunch of goobers oh, and I agree with you.


Freedom is great. I am an American ... not only that, but, I live (and was born) in the U.S.A. Since I consider Canadians, Mexicans, well, the western hemisphere to all be Americans ... you know, we don't have a monopoly on the name, there are two continents with that designation


I actually find much more U.S. nationalism and anti-non-U.S. sentiments floating around, paired with ignorance and racism, religious/non-religious discrimination ... add a little bit of war mongering and blind followers ... not to mention the deaf debunkers. I guess it is their right


I think it is great to see patriots, a pity to see nationalists ... the difference between those who created this country and those who created the world wars.


There is no need to silence those whom you oppose ... just don't read it, don't listen, don't watch. It is your freedom to choose what you take in ... although, I would prefer you listen and try to understand opposing viewpoints; you don't have to change your stance, just give them the same courtesy you wish in return and respect their views.


I have great hopes for the future even though I don't care for where we stand at this moment. Things may get interesting in the next 5-10 years.

reply to post by Majic


ugh its not america love it or hate it!

its love it or leave it

I've seen countless American members doing the same towards other nations. We're all bad as eachother.

There is no anti-american sentiment on ATS, nore is there one towards Israel either (which is regularly brought up by members.)

When you have a large membership, like ATS, you are going to get different views (ranging from moderate to extreme). You just have to deal with it. If it REALLY gets to you, ignore it or using the ignore button (if it's a certain member).

Maverick, I think that partially goes along with this being a conspiracy board. I take a lot of what is said about my country on this board with a grain o salt. Does our government do underhanded things? You bet your bottom dollar they do. Would I fight for my country, regardless? I have. I spent two years in Afghanistan fighting a group of people who I felt needed to be fought.


As far as Bush goes, I don't agree with a lot of things that he does. However, I certainly don't think he's "Satan's spawn," or some kind of a "henchman." There are some posters here, right or wrong, who seem to think he is. I don't know.

[edit on 9-10-2007 by SpeakerofTruth]

Love/Hate Relationship

Originally posted by razor1000
ugh its not america love it or hate it!

its love it or leave it

Irony is not dead.

I would respectfully submit to the OP that a lot of the Anti-American sentiment posted within ATS is real and justified – and not just a matter of perception or misinterpretation.

I say that as an American, who loves America.
How can that be?
The explanation being that America is being transformed into something that it was not intended to be. Our Nation was not conceived of as an Empire; in fact it was intended to be the antithesis of such.
However, with the current leadership and influence of the military/industrial complex, America is beginning to become a looming shadow upon the rest of the world.
Oh, sure the Government gives lots of lip-service to “spreading Democracy”, and they send our brave sons and daughters to fight on foreign soil in the supposed pursuit of such. But what is the real agenda? When you look at it closely, are we spilling our blood and treasure for true American ideals or perhaps the ambitions of something else?
People around the world can’t trust America anymore. As an American citizen, I’m not sure I can either.

I am an American patriot who whole-heartedly supports the Constitution.

I do not support those from the PTB who are trying to make that Constitution nothing more than a rag to wipe with. They are the ones who are anti-American because they seek to destroy what makes America what it is/was.

Those who take an oath to uphold and defend the Constitution, but then declare it a damn piece of paper are anti-American.

reply to post by Majic



Once again you've nailed it. Whilst it bothers me when I hear baseless accusations, it bothers me even more when the critics are right.

I love my country. Because I love it, I refuse to be blind to its faults, that means occasionally having to hold my nose and agree with the critics. How else do we correct what's wrong. Conversely, because I love my country, I'll defend it when neccessary from attack as best I can.

Man I wish we still had WATS around here. Somehow a star just doesn't seem enough.

The freedom to speak is obviously a good thing, but does that mean we have to be insulting/racist/bigoted just because we can.

As an english man I also have the freedom of free speech (but it's slowly being eroded), but I choose not to insult people with my words and I also choose not to make harsh judgments without further educating myself with experience and/or study.

Just the comments like, 'hey we should nuke those monkeys' and stuff like that. Just makes me sick.

Those same people also have the audacity to then call other people 'backwards'.



Edit: Lol, it seems I also have the right to correct my spelling.

[edit on 10-10-2007 by mr-lizard]

I'll bite on this, because I do regularly criticise the Bush Administration and American foreign policy, and occaisonally I'll pull Americans up about issues where what they say is either plain and simply wrong, or just ill thought out and dumb.

I don't do that because I am Anti-American. I do it because I'm anti-hypocrisy, anti-propaganda, anti-ignorance and pro-human.

I do it because I realise that the USA is not the world, and the world is most certainly not the USA. Last time I checked this was an international board.

On the political side I do it because - whether you like it or not - what the US does as the worlds only "superpower" has direct consequences for the rest of the world, and if theres a grade 1 asshole and a bunch of bloodthirsty warmongers in the Whitehouse, then its likely that one day one of their decisions might just spoil (or vapourise) my breakfast, and the only people that can do anything about it are Americans, because I can't vote there.

If the US wants to stick its nose out in the world and bugger about a bit, then it needs a thick skin.

And yes, before you all start, I'm English, and we've done our fair share of buggering about too, in the past and in recent times -and I'm not proud of it. Tony Blair was an idiot for getting caught up in the folly of the Iraq war as far as I'm concerned. He took MY country from being a respected player on the world stage to that of being a bit-part poodle in a phony war. Does that make me anti-English?

Before I finish though, lets take a look at nations who stood/stand on their own jingoistic national pride, never listened to anyone and never accepted a counter argument against themselves shall we? Heres a list of three I can think of.

Nazi Germany
Soviet Russia
North Korea.

How far down their road of curtailing peoples expressions of their so called "anti-american" opinions do you want to go before you reach the level of restriction those countries imposed? And if you go that far, are you any better than they were?

Maverick, let me put it this way to you, I'm Britsh and was brought up on a hard diet of the Empire with many of my family fighting and dying for it. I was proud to be British and what we achieved, I was told that we were superior to all others black or white.

As I got older I realised how our greatness was obtained through the killing of millions, asset stripping, enslavement, destruction of traditions and religeous beliefs etc. now I'm not proud anymore. So maybe this will make you understand why members such as I appear to bash America/Americans because basically your nation is following in our footsteps.

Unless we ditch this trait we are doomed to failure, there is no place in our future for empires or dictators whom ever they may be.

I'm not anti american, I'm anti hypocrite, and totally against politicians from any country lining their pockets when they're supposed to be working for the betterment of the country.
It's just that bush (and formerly blair) are pretty good examples of this, and if anyone thinks that he is doing ANYTHING to help the US rather than himself, they are a touch deluded.

The only thing I've found about people from the US, is that they can be a bit insular - but thats not a criticism, it's an observation.

Originally posted by seagull
Man I wish we still had WATS around here. Somehow a star just doesn't seem enough.

Man, I wish I could give you a star for that post!

Even that's not possible because this is BB&Q. So I'll just quote you on that