Some Biblical Questions!

Okay, getting to the point without heaps of waffle --

1: Urim and Thummim. What the?

2: Pharoh's Sorcerers. Miracles almost equal to God? What the ?

3: The Ark of the Covenant. Specifically, the bit where they are taking it up a mountain, it slips and falls because they are not carrying it correctly, and some poor Israelite grabs it and pushes it back up and "god" kills him instantly for it, without giving him the usual long tired speech on how he is wrong first. Bit dodgy, I'd say.

4: Satan's place in the old testament. If we were tallying up kills, God wins this hands-down. How is satan the bad guy? Isn't he just Gods little messenger boy?


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[edit on 10-5-2007 by worldwatcher]

Originally posted by C.C.Benjamin
1: Urim and Thummim. What the [heck]?

I don't understand the question...

2: Pharoh's Sorcerers. Miracles almost equal to God? What the [heck]?

Curious, isn't it? Satan has real power. It is not a creative power like God's, but it is a corruption of God's power. Witchcraft is not slight of hand and misdirection (although it can be), but very real supernatural power. I'm sure those on the board who practice can attest to that and would not say, like so many who know it cannot be without ever having experienced it, that it is chance and trickery.

We don't only see this here, but with Simon the Sorcerer, with the medium Saul goes to to summon the now dead prophet Samuel (successfully), the magi, and many others.

We don't see this battle as overtly today as they did in the past because we in Western culture explain away everything by science, and when that can't be done, we assume other external, natural factors that we are unaware of. Yet look at the paranormal forum here at ATS. This is just a very small section of the West reporting on that which they cannot explain, in many cases, the supernatural. If you go to Africa, though, it is well known the power of a shaman, and it is often the power of God that amazes the people in that He does work greater miracles than anything the devil could ever hope to do through His chosen vessles.

3: The Ark of the Covenant. Specifically, the bit where they are taking it up a mountain, it slips and falls because they are not carrying it correctly, and some poor Israelite grabs it and pushes it back up and "god" kills him instantly for it, without giving him the usual long tired speech on how he is wrong first. Bit dodgy, I'd say.

This actually necessitates a very deep theological response, and one I delved into because I, too, when I first read that was thinking, "what the [heck]??" I'll try to sum up, but please ask for clarification if anything doesn't make sense.

In the Old Testament, God was setting aside a people to be His chosen people, raised above to be separate from a fallen world. They were just like us, just as rebellious, just as stiff necked, but they needed to be different. That has involved some harsh, harsh lessons that seem a little psychotic to us from our perspective, but in the long run were tame compared to what the end result could have been had God not been so stringent.

I don't know if you've ever read the book of Judges, but what is related is so repetitive -- Israel turns from God -- God sends Israel into captivity -- Israel cries out to God for salvation -- God raises a judge to deliver Israel -- Israel returns home and worships God -- Go to step 1.

God wanted to separate the Jews from the rest of the world. Create a people different and uncompromising to the culture. Here we are, at least 5,000 years after their civilization organized and began, and they are the oldest culture ever. When other cultures were absorbed into conquering empires, the Jews remained true to their roots. When genocidal efforts were made against them to turn them from their faith and culture, they remained true to their roots. No other civilization has done that so often and for so long. God knew what He was doing.

Which brings us to this unfortunate individual who attempted to rescue the ark, who was going to help God out. It is important to note some things. First, that the means for handling the ark were explicit. This was the way it was done, and you will die if you do otherwise. If you were traveling with the Ark, you knew this stuff. This guys actions were both irreverent and heretical. God said, "no", and this guy's reaction was, essentially, "yeah, but God, you were going to be in trouble if I didn't help out". As this man died, it really hammered home to the Jews that this Ark cannot be just a talisman like so many other cultures of the time possessed to use to stir up the people. Instead, it was God's will that dictates the use of this Ark, and to do otherwise is not only going to be rebellious, it's going to be fatal.

You're not the only one who has a problem with that idea, though. In 1 Chronicles 13:10-11, David's servant Uzza is killed when he tries to stabilize the ark, and David gets angry with God over it. Scripture doesn't sugarcoat these things and make struggles to understand God's will that you and I have seem heretical because all people in scripture don't think twice and just accept it.

4: Satan's place in the old testament. If we were tallying up kills, God wins this hands-down. How is satan the bad guy? Isn't he just Gods little messenger boy?

But we're not tallying up kills. Who on earth that was alive in 1850 that is alive today? That's a 100% kill rate, regardless of how. We're tallying up souls. What may seem cruel on the outside can have amazing redemptive healing for one's relationship with God. Satan's actions are rebelling against God, trying to pull as many of us away from Him in a spiteful attack on God. God allows this because God is just (another very long winded discussion if it comes from me, as I'm not very skilled at being concise ).

I believe Satan thinks he can win this thing, that he can beat God. It is Jewish tradition to understand Satan as an angel of the Lord in His employ. It is only through the revelation of understanding Christ gave us that we realize his true rebellion against God, and his hatred for you and I.

Originally posted by C.C.Benjamin
1: Urim and Thummim. What the?

Urim = flame/eastern light
Thummin = perfect truth

From Strong's Concordance: (Link & Link)

H217
'ûr
oor
From H215; flame, hence (in the plural) the East (as being the region of light): - fire, light. See also H224.

H8550
tûmmîym
toom-meem'
Plural of H8537; perfections, that is, (technically) one of the epithets of the objects in the high priest’s breastplate as an emblem of complete Truth: - Thummim.

Here are definitions from Easton’s Bible Dictionary:
Urim
Thummin

From Edgar Cayce reading 261-15:

Hence INTUITIVE force is the better, for in this there may come more the union of the spirit of truth with Creative Energy; thus the answer may be SHOWN thee, whether in Urim, in Thummim, in dream, in numbers, in WHATEVER manner or form. For He IS the strength of them all, and beareth witness IN thee and through thee - if ye but do His biddings.

And from reading 294-142:

So we have those channels. These are not the psychic forces, please understand! They are the CHANNELS through which the activities have their impulse! though the manifestations may be in sight, in sound, in speech, in vision, in writing, in dreams, in Urim or Thummim, or in any. For these represent Urim and Thummim in their essence, or in ANY of the RESPONDING forces in a body; but their impulse arises from or through these sources in much the same manner as the heart and the liver are of the physical body the motivating forces, or impulses, that carry the stream of life itself; or as the brain is that motivating center of impulse or mind. These are merely as illustrations that the student may better understand the activity of that being presented.

From reading 900-90:

(…)the subconscious in its development takes hold, as it were, on such subject matter, such data, as is presented in the sleeping state, and through Urim presents same to the mind for the study of conditions, as the body, mind, of the body develops, for as has been given, this entity may give to the world those principles upon which the union and fusion of the great truths that would draw many, many men unto a better knowledge and understanding of those divine truths as are set in Him, for He is the Truth, the Light, and the Way, and all men may draw nigh unto Him and learn of Him (of God) through the understanding of the forces as are manifest in a physical world through the understanding that may be acquired in the mind(…)

These are channels which facilitate visions, dreams, and other ways of ‘knowing’ GOD’s truth – not the actual forces but rather the means through which the forces are delivered to the human mind.

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2: Pharaoh's Sorcerers. Miracles almost equal to God? What the ?

The rod/serpent incident (in Exodus 7:12) seems to be an indication of how things progressed between Pharaoh and Moses: up until a certain point, Pharaoh’s magic crew was able to copy what GOD did, through Moses and Aaron; signified by the fact that Moses’ rod devoured the magicians’ rods.

First, the water was turned to blood, first by Moses and Aaron and then by Pharaoh’s magicians…yet the magicians could not reverse it – the water remained foul for 7 days.

Then the frogs came, again by Moses and Aaron first, followed by the magicians. Yet again, the magicians could not undo it: Exodus 8:8

When they get to the third round, the magicians fall short from the get-go: Exodus 8:16-18

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3: The Ark of the Covenant. Specifically, the bit where they are taking it up a mountain, it slips and falls because they are not carrying it correctly, and some poor Israelite grabs it and pushes it back up and "god" kills him instantly for it, without giving him the usual long tired speech on how he is wrong first. Bit dodgy, I'd say.

I don’t think it is so much a question of being wrong – morally or otherwise – it is very likely that the ark of the covenant served as a capacitor. It was lined, both inside and out, with gold, which is the best electrical conductor for ‘high-quality surface-to-surface contacts.’ And its dimensions (being that of the ‘golden rectangle’ – a ratio of 5:3) might very well have made it a very powerful storehouse of electrical energy.

If you are at all familiar with the mysterious workings of electricity then you will understand just how deadly discharging a capacitor, even of a much smaller size than that of the ark’s specifications, would be!

Following the incident, King David was mad at GOD but then realized that he was more or less responsible because he had not made sure that only Levite priests handled the ark – and the priests knew to handle it only by the wooden staves (also covered with gold) which were threaded through the rings on both sides of the ark. What difference this might make, I don’t know, unless it would be related to the minimal, and perhaps inconsistent, contact between the staves and the actual ark. Or perhaps GOD made the priests somehow ‘shock-proof.’ I have also read, somewhere, that the priest’s garments were somehow protective in nature (but I forget exactly how).

(I’m sorry I can’t recall where exactly I picked up those theories – I read A LOT.)

Here is an ATS thread concerning such a possibility.

Arthur C. Clark said:
‘Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic.’

That is a very true statement!

Another, more nebulous, possibility is that it was a capacitor-type machine for some sort of energy/force even more devastating to physical human life than electricity. I say nebulous because if so, then it must surely be something still unknown to modern-day scientists. This is more a personal theory of my own; based on the passage in the bible where the ark causes skin lesions/boils/cancers to the Philistines, who stole it from Israel under the reign of King Saul. David subsequently got it back, leading to the Uzzah’s unfortunate demise during its transport. Also, I have read that the lesions described to Moses, by GOD, during the days of the tabernacle in the wilderness (when the ark first came into being), bear a striking similarity to those of radiation poisoning.

-----------

4: Satan's place in the old testament. If we were tallying up kills, God wins this hands-down. How is satan the bad guy? Isn't he just Gods little messenger boy?

I would have to say more like Attorney General.
Or perhaps Drill Sergeant.
Even ‘the anger of the LORD’ - compare 1 Chronicles 21:1 and 2 Samuel 24:1 (2 different accounts of the same incident)

The first chapter of the book of Job…and from the last chapter of Job: Job 42:10-12

Notice it says:

and comforted him over all the evil that the LORD had brought upon him:



That is significant! The LORD and ‘satan’ are not opposing adversaries – ‘satan’ is NEVER a proper name but rather a title – and literally DOES mean ‘adversary’ or ‘opponent’ but not GOD’s – man’s! And even that doesn’t seem to be such a bad thing, when viewing the whole picture – Job was twice as well off because of facing off, honorably, with such an opponent! And by honorably I mean, specifically, not cursing GOD for evil but rather withstanding it and becoming a wiser man in the end.

See Isaiah 45:7 - GOD is the source of ALL things – ‘good’ and ‘bad.’

Not at all an acceptable idea according to modern mainstream Christian theology; however it is undeniably supported in the bible.

Originally posted by junglejake
Curious, isn't it? Satan has real power.

ALL power comes from GOD
OR
GOD is not ALL-powerful

Take your pick.

It is not a creative power like God's, but it is a corruption of God's power.

Why must it be a corruption? But if it is, then GOD created it. For a specific and perfectly logical reason.

He created us, our adversaries, AND evil. The bible says this. I believe it. Don't you?

Why create evil?

Evil shall slay the wicked: and they that hate the righteous shall be desolate.
~Psalms 34:21

We don't only see this here, but with Simon the Sorcerer, with the medium Saul goes to to summon the now dead prophet Samuel (successfully), the magi, and many others.

The Magi? You mean the ones who KNEW exactly where to find baby Jesus? Obviously they were 'approved,' don't ya think?

If you go to Africa, though, it is well known the power of a shaman, and it is often the power of God that amazes the people in that He does work greater miracles than anything the devil could ever hope to do through His chosen vessels.

So, are you saying that shamanism is of GOD? Or not? I'm not sure I clearly understand what you are saying.

God wanted to separate the Jews from the rest of the world.

You mean Israel, right?

Here we are, at least 5,000 years after their civilization organized and began, and they are the oldest culture ever.

No, they aren't! Not at all!

Judaism, as the unifying factor of the children of Israel, only goes back to around 1450 BCE, upon their liberation from Egypt by Moses - a little less than 3,500 years ago. And after the destruction of Jerusalem in 70 BCE, they were scattered all over the world for nearly 2,000 years - and there are now two main sects of Jews, today, just like in Palestine of Jesus' time. Now most are either Sephardic or Ashkenazi Jews.

The ancient Mesopotamian, Egyptian, Chinese, and Harappan civilizations all go back to at least 4000 BCE - 6,000 years ago!

When other cultures were absorbed into conquering empires, the Jews remained true to their roots. When genocidal efforts were made against them to turn them from their faith and culture, they remained true to their roots.

Then what happened in Palestine following WWI and WWII?

And don't say 'GOD did it' to fulfill prophesy - GOD is neither messy nor incomplete. The fact that there is NO peace in Jerusalem, to this day, is clear evidence that it was a human-devised idea and not divine - a violent and disturbing idea, in literal execution.

Read this.
That site is full of historic facts and avoids taking sides - 'just the facts, ma'am.'

But we're not tallying up kills. Who on earth that was alive in 1850 that is alive today? That's a 100% kill rate, regardless of how.

Good point.

We're tallying up souls. What may seem cruel on the outside can have amazing redemptive healing for one's relationship with God. Satan's actions are rebelling against God, trying to pull as many of us away from Him in a spiteful attack on God.

NONSENSE. The bible says no such thing. At all. Quite the contrary, actually. Paul writes:

To deliver such a one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.
~1 Corinthians 5:5

And lest I should be exalted above measure through the abundance of the revelations, there was given to me a thorn in the flesh, the messenger of Satan to buffet me, lest I should be exalted above measure.
~2 Corinthians 12:7

Of whom is Hymenaeus and Alexander; whom I have delivered unto Satan, that they may learn not to blaspheme.
~1 Timothy 1:20

So, if Paul is to be believed, then 'satan' is

• a integral part of the work toward saving all souls
  
• an instrument toward humility
  
• a disciplinarian of sinners

It is Jewish tradition to understand Satan as an angel of the Lord in His employ.

Well, they DID know him first, right?

It is only through the revelation of understanding Christ gave us that we realize his true rebellion against God, and his hatred for you and I.

Where does it say that 'satan' hates anyone? It is written that the LORD hated, and was hated, and also that men hated men. But Satan hating? Not in there.

ALSO - the word 'rebel,' and variations thereof, in the Old Testament, are, without exception, in reference to human beings! And there is no such word or even synonym in the New Testament! In the book of Job, Satan did NOT disobey GOD at all - GOD set limits and Satan totally complied!

An evil man seeks only rebellion: therefore a cruel messenger shall be sent against him.
~Proverbs 17:11

cruel messenger = terrible angel



If anything, GOD uses divine adversaries (spirits/daemons) to punish human rebellion!!!

These are channels which facilitate visions, dreams, and other ways of ‘knowing’ GOD’s truth – not the actual forces but rather the means through which the forces are delivered to the human mind.

And they are put into the breastplate...so what are we talking about here, God's walkie-talkie? His portable TV?

Who on earth that was alive in 1850 that is alive today? That's a 100% kill rate, regardless of how.

That's a false argument. Killing someone is not the same as waiting them to live out their natural lifespan.

For example, when there is a single sinner among the Levites and God toasts 250 of them with fire, and God tells Moses to tell them to move away from the tents. You can't tell me that wasn't an emotional trial for Moses.

"Guys...God wants you to move away from the tents."
"He does? Why, Moses?"
"...I'm sorry, guys, just...just move, please."

I'm saying how many people does Satan KILL. Not allow to live out their natural lifespan, etc, but destroy while his victims scream in fear and pain. Don't give me a cop-out answer of "we all die according to God's divine plan" crap either, please. I'm not interested in your beliefs, I'm interested in what happened, cheers.

In the OT, from what I could gather after reading it, Satan is God's wanderer on the earth. He seems to report back to God about what is happening (e.g. Sodom and Gomorrah) so God can take action. This makes me think Yahweh was, in fact, Satan masquerading as God. How would the Israelites know the difference? Not that they would even know about the Christian God at that point, I suppose.

That is significant! The LORD and ‘satan’ are not opposing adversaries – ‘satan’ is NEVER a proper name but rather a title

So is "God" most probably.

When they get to the third round, the magicians fall short from the get-go

Yeah it's a shame isn't it, but that does kind of make me think of the difference between 286 computers and dual-core hyperthreaded P4's.

"My computer can play solitaire"
"So can mine, but mine can play Doom 3 as well"

The only reason Yahweh's side win the wizards battle is because Yahweh gave Moses a better "staff of god".

The thing is though...Yahweh kills a lot of people in the OT. He leads the Israelites on a huge mission of conquest spanning over 90 cities, from what the OT says. That's a lot of "delivering unto our hands" (a phrase I have serious questions about).

So why doesn't he just smite pharoh with fire and give the Israelites Egypt? Isn't he powerful enough to do that? Will it anger someone else? Is Pharoh capable of fighting Yahweh off with his wizards?

Yahweh's actions are so much more akin to a general than to a god.

‘Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic.’

Indeed, and I put forward the example of "god" killing the man who saves the Ark from falling down a mountain (and presumably being broken). If it were a lesson, Yahweh would do what he always did and say to the criminal: "Now I'm going to torch your ass because you were a bad puppy".

However, this doesn't happen, so it does indeed look like the Ark is a capacitor. I doubt it's radioactive, the lesions may have been caused by electrical burns or something like that.

This does raise the "God is a spaceman" issue somewhat, doesn't it? Especially when combined with God's walkie-talkie, Pharoh's sorcerers and the fact that he doesn't just smite Pharoh and be done with it. Sodom and Gomorrah are a good one too - "Bring out those men, so we may have sex with them". Are these angels, who are often described as the LORD and as men in this passage, really that attractive? I guess they are, but the men of Sodom are clearly seeing men and not angels, and describe them as such.

And if you compare all this with the Sumerian "those who from came down from the sky" annukai (sp??)...

Originally posted by C.C.Benjamin
And they are put into the breastplate...so what are we talking about here, God's walkie-talkie? His portable TV?

I dunno! The bat-phone, perhaps?

ANYTHING could be a channel, I would think. I think that it is our mind which is the receiver, so to speak - much like a radio set. The electrical source would be our basic vitality and the air-wave signals would be the actual communications from Deity to Human Soul. But the radio, itself, is merely the instrument which brings all these things together in a workable form for the purpose of communicating.

How would the Israelites know the difference? Not that they would even know about the Christian God at that point, I suppose.

At the time of the destruction of the 5 cities of the plain?
No, I don't think they would know...or care either...
...mainly because Israel had not been designated - as Jacob's offspring, who was Abraham's grand-son. It was Abraham who witnessed the 'overthrow' of fire and brimstone. And without Judaism, there is no such thing as a Gentile OR a Christian!

So is "God" most probably.

That's a given!

Yeah it's a shame isn't it, but that does kind of make me think of the difference between 286 computers and dual-core hyper-threaded P4's.

I'm tellin' ya!

The only reason Yahweh's side win the wizards battle is because Yahweh gave Moses a better "staff of god".

I do not know this 'yahweh' but I do agree that Moses had the bigger, more powerful, stick! Hands down!

So why doesn't he just smite pharoh with fire and give the Israelites Egypt? Isn't he powerful enough to do that? Will it anger someone else? Is Pharaoh capable of fighting Yahweh off with his wizards?

I think the actual and true goal was to make a NAME for GOD that would not be forgotten by man - no matter what really happened in Egypt - no matter HOW or any of that - the very fact that three religions sprang up out of the roots of adventure and exploits...says SOMETHING.

Yahweh's actions are so much more akin to a general than to a god.

The LORD of Hosts. Commander of the divine army.

This does raise the "God is a spaceman" issue somewhat, doesn't it? Especially when combined with God's walkie-talkie, Pharaoh's sorcerers and the fact that he doesn't just smite Pharaoh and be done with it.

Actually, it even says that GOD 'hardened Pharaoh's heart' which means even when Pharaoh wanted to cry uncle, GOD made him change his mind before the final decision to 'Let My People Go.'

Sodom and Gomorrah are a good one too - "Bring out those men, so we may have sex with them". Are these angels, who are often described as the LORD and as men in this passage, really that attractive? I guess they are, but the men of Sodom are clearly seeing men and not angels, and describe them as such.

Right. It actually has nothing to do at all with homosexuality but rather the idea that the short-cut to divinity was to bear the divine offspring - the child of an Angel. This belief was actually quite deep and males did not exclude themselves from the possibility of becoming the mother of a god. OR so to speak.

Sounds insane, I know. But it does appear to be well-supported in those early religions.

And if you compare all this with the Sumerian "those who from came down from the sky" annukai (sp??)...

Only the names have been changed to protect the guilty and/or innocent.

Originally posted by C.C.Benjamin

These are channels which facilitate visions, dreams, and other ways of ‘knowing’ GOD’s truth – not the actual forces but rather the means through which the forces are delivered to the human mind.

And they are put into the breastplate...so what are we talking about here, God's walkie-talkie? His portable TV?

Do you want the answers so that you might understand how God's creation works and how you can communicate with God? The communication lines have always been open but you have applied great interference by your transgressions. You must come out of the dark basement and begin living by God's Laws which is the Ten Commandments in truth everyday and always. This is the beginning of the cleansing process, where your soul may reopen the communications and talk with God.

An unclean soul is like a dying branch which can no longer bare fruit. You must bring yourself back to health through your actions and the way you live. Live by The Ten Commandments which is The Word, which is The Truth, and which IS God. The Lord's Holy Spirit will be your reward and you will have no more tears, and you will know your God and he will Love you, nourish you, and protect you. This is available to everyone but not everyone will come in truth and repent for their transgressions and because of this you will continue to be separated from Him and He will not know you. So when the time comes, on that great day when the earth will be turned up, and the lord gathers his flock, you will not be with him because he did not know you.

[edit on 7-10-2007 by Raphael]

As I remember, the Urim and Thummim weren't put in the breastplate. The 12 stones representing the 12 tribes were put in there. The Urim and Thummim were a dark and a light stone put into a bag that were drawn to determine God's will. (As I think about it, they may be the stone on the high priests shoulders that had the names of the tribes inscribed on them, I can't recall right now).

According to Jewish tradition, the stones on the breastplate were used at times to determine God's will.

As far as the miracles go, it's interesting that even though Satan was powerful enough to duplicate the miracles, it actually just made things worse. (ie the water is turned to blood...the magicians turn more water into blood...they make more frogs and gnats, etc.). If Satan were truly powerful, and have half a brain, he would have solved the problem.

A note about Job/Satan...its believed that Job's story takes place during the time of Abraham (even before the time of the patriarchs some say), which wasn't to far after creation. So, if you're 'keeping score' (which I agree that Satan has a 100% kill rate through history due to sin and its effects) God wouldn't have a high score.

Sorry if any of this has been mentioned already.

Tom

Originally posted by octotom
As I remember, the Urim and Thummim weren't put in the breastplate. The 12 stones representing the 12 tribes were put in there.

And you shall put in the breastplate of judgment the Urim and the Thummim;
and they shall be upon Aaron's heart, when he goes in before the LORD:
and Aaron shall bear the judgment of the children of Israel upon his heart before the LORD continually.
~Exodus 28:30

The Urim and Thummim were a dark and a light stone put into a bag that were drawn to determine God's will.

You're thinking of the lots that the priest drew on the Day of Atonement to determine which of the two sacrificial goats would be the scapegoat and which would serve as the temple sacrifice. Leviticus chapter 16

Check out this site

www.joncourson.com...

listen for free

reply to post by Raphael



Do you honestly believe that? Have you studied the bible? And why do most people consider the bible to be the law. What about the Koran, and by the way all you christians should read the Koran, I really mean that. Lots of stuff in there that pertains to you guys...Me, I dont believe in "God" as in creator being. Dont believe in anything unless that belief will aide in ending the suffering of humankind.

By the way i have read the bible, and the koran, and the bhagavad gita, and the Dhammapada. And i find that truth is concealed in all of these holy books. You just have to be awake enough to see it. But alot of it is BS. Why didnt the egyptians have a record of these extroardinary events that happened? Probably because they didnt happen.

The ark intrigues me. I wonder what it is. And where it is. It could very well have been a very advanced technology. Or a capacitor of some sort. Hmmm. I hope that it is revealed someday. I personally think that it is a metaphor, and not real. The bible is a fiction non-fiction, meaning it is fiction and myth written around real events. It makes it very tricky to disproove, or to proove. Clever indeed. Its crazy. I cant wait for it to be prooven or disprooved. Me, i think that we should all keep a healthy skepticism about it nowadays.

We need to make a new religion, based on experience, and the goal of it is to find the cause of suffering and to find the way to end suffering in humankind...WAIT..nevermind there is a religion based on these principals...haha BUDDHISM, mine path.

Peace.

Originally posted by gravytrain
reply to post by Raphael

 

We need to make a new religion, based on experience, and the goal of it is to find the cause of suffering and to find the way to end suffering in humankind...WAIT..nevermind there is a religion based on these principals...haha BUDDHISM, mine path.
Peace.

Have you met God? I have... I can't imagine making another religion BECAUSE THERE IS ONLY ONE GOD AND GOD IS REAL AND IS HERE. I will pray for you that you might find your way on the straight path.


You laugh at my comments but you do not have understanding IN TRUTH which is in The Spirit of God. The Spirit of God is as real as the earth you walk on and has not vanished in modern day. The Spirit although you can't see it is a habitable place for your soul. I can explain this better if anyone really cares enough. God and his Spirit have never left this world it was his promise and I have been inside it and with Him and he was pleased with me. He is the beginning and the end, the Alpha and the Omega, and he has been trying to bring you to him. You can not mix the corrupt with the incorruptible or you will just be left with something that is corrupt. This is why God can't speak to those with broken corrupt souls which have not live in THE TRUTH, which resides in God's Spirit, and HIS WORD.

Truth, Spirit, Word ( SAME THING ) God's Spirit is also his flaming sword and what guards the Tree of Life. This is why salvation and Heaven can only be gained through God's Spirit, which is the Truth.

Do you not realize in order for God to be an all loving God he has to live in Truth. Anything less then truth is not love because it's not honest. Therefore when you yourself do not live in Truth how can God also live with you if your living a lie? Do you really think if you pray to a false God or if you have no faith that God will come? HE CAN'T! THIS IS NOT TRUTH! Truth will bring you to God's Spirit which is as REAL as you.

You cannot possibly understand to the same degree as I but I want to teach you what God's Spirit is really like, why people have not known him, and why they truly need him.

[edit on 10-10-2007 by Raphael]

No need to hijack my thread with dogma, mate.

Next question:

"I will send the hornet ahead of you to drive out those before you"

What is the hornet!?

The hornet is the 'bee of Assyria:'

The Lord is about to send on you, and on your people, and on your father's house, such a time of trouble as there has not been from the days of the separating of Ephraim from Judah; even the coming of the king of Assyria.

And it will be in that day that the Lord will make a piping sound for the fly which is in the end of the rivers of Egypt, and for the bee which is in the land of Assyria. And they will come, covering all the waste valleys, and the holes of the rocks, and the thorns, and all the watering-places.

In that day will the Lord take away the hair of the head and of the feet, as well as the hair of the face, with a blade got for a price from the other side of the River; even with the king of Assyria.
~Isaiah 7:17-20

[edit on 10/11/2007 by queenannie38]

Which begs the question...what is the Bee of Assyria?

Originally posted by C.C.Benjamin
Which begs the question...what is the Bee of Assyria?

King Nebuchadnezzar