RELIGION....

i have a question for someone who is seriuos about religion and wont waste my time cuz its a seriuos question....Now i beleive that god puts this notion of free will into humans...am i right???...i mean we as humans can make choices right??....ones that arent predetermined by God...so how come i cant under my own will not beleive in God....i mean i have nothing against God or religion...but i am stumbled upon the fact that i have to pick Gods way of living otherwise i will suffer in the past life world or wat ever u wanna call it....Why isnt God willing to accept the fact that i need a reason of my own to beleive in him....not wat my parents and others have brought me up with...

Originally posted by LuDaCrIs
Why isnt God willing to accept the fact that i need a reason of my own to beleive in him....not wat my parents and others have brought me up with...

Maybe God is, but our parents and our ancestors aren't!!

That question have been itching me, I want to live in a world where I am born with no religion and I'm allowed to choose it once I'm old enough for it. But that is not going to happen.

But if that is the case, most of us won't believe in religion at all. That is why we are given very little chance to choose.

who is your "God"?

and what is your "religion"?

Because if our "god" and "religion" is different, then my theory wouldn't apply, would it?

Thats another thing....why are there other religions...i mean how do we know that ours is the right one (I am supposedly Christian)....So i guess i am asking all the Christians out there this question...

i am also surprised that more people dont realize that religion is the cause of many of the worlds problems...i am not suggesting we get rid of them somehow i am just observing....

Originally posted by worldwatcher
who is your "God"?

and what is your "religion"?

Because if our "god" and "religion" is different, then my theory wouldn't apply, would it?

I'm an Hindu by birth, atheist by life.

Here's an interesting Buddhist aspect as to why we have so many religions:

"Throughout time, as society becomes either progressive or regressive, various incarnations appear to give stress to one aspect of religious understandingor another. Just like children going to school. Sometimes the child does not make progress. He has to repeat the class. Sometimes he goes backward. He is demoted. He's such a nonsense that he has to repeat a different lesson. Similarly, we have different religious communities, which were apparently inaugurated or initiated by different religious teachers, reformers, incarnations, prophets or son of God (Lord Jesus). Mohammed was called a prophet. Lord Buddha was an incarnation of Krishna. If we see the different religious communities in this way, their common aim becomes clear."

www.geocities.com...

Originally posted by LuDaCrIs
Why isnt God willing to accept the fact that i need a reason of my own to beleive in him....not wat my parents and others have brought me up with...

If you place any trust in God at all, then trust that He knows what you're feeling and will reach you however and whenever is most appropriate. Keep your heart open.

hey man, its faith. It feels like a gamble. I am a catholic but I have not gone to church in a very long time. But I believe that if I do what is right then I am being a good person. From what I have gathered since I was a kid you should just do the right thing, no matter who you worship.

And who defines what the "right" thing is? Society. Or God. But apparently someone always shows up and TELLS you what the "right" thing is and what the "wrong" thing is, and you don't get to debate. You must obey, and if you reject this, you are WRONG.

See the problems with that? Our free will is to choose anything we want. God would never "punish" us because he'd never pass judgement. If he did, then he has his own beliefs and preconceptions, and he's no longer God. You only judge something based on what you think is right or wrong, but right and wrong are individually-defined, there are no absolutes. So therefore, God himself cannot know right or wrong, including good or evil. If he tells you he does, he's no longer God, because he now has an OPINION. Gods don't opinionize all over the place!

In order to determine what's "right" for you, you must first determine what your goal is. What is it that you want to achieve as the ultimate thing in life? What's the most important thing to you out of everything that exists in this world, and I'm not talking about material things, I imply concepts, ideals, etc.

Find what it is that truly matters to you. You define your purpose of life, no one does it for you. You might WANT someone to do it for you and ask them, but you're just submitting your free will to THEM to make the decision. Do you really want someone else to decide? Do you want God to dictate your life and your whole being? Well it's your choice.

But think carefully about what might be a lie in religion designed to control you and keep you in fear and confused, and what is really true. Think about what a "God" would or would not do, and if he did that would he still really be God? Would a GOD EVER violate anyone's free will for any reason? Would he ever dictate to you how to live or what to think? Would he punish you if you did something against his "word" or against his "command?". But isn't giving a command a violation of free will already? Think about this carefully, you might discover some big lies in religions if you're objective. Up to you, so do what you wish

In respect to Christianity:


Without free will there can be no real love. if we have the option to choose God or not then we have the option to love God or not. God wants us to love him or try and grow to love him. We cant do that without free will. Without free will we have no options... we in a sense become robots. One cant really love another in that way. It becomes a chore or work. That insight into free will and the necessity of it in Christianity is very important. Life holds numerious options... God allows this. Life is on your own terms another words. However the consequences of your choices are not. Thats the difference. You can choose who or what you are into or love but you cant choose what the results of that are. Just because God has one way as the right way (the narrow way) doesnt negate free will or distract from it in any way.

Free Will:
1. The ability or discretion to choose; free choice: chose to remain behind of my own free will.
2. The power of making free choices that are unconstrained by external circumstances or by an agency such as fate or divine will

no where in there does it say that you get to choose another consequence for one action. Its all about choice of actions in the first place... if you are trying to stretch it to imply choice of consequences then you risk screwing with the essence of the definition i believe.



[Edited on 23-1-2004 by krossfyter]

Originally posted by lilblam
But isn't giving a command a violation of free will already?

well forcing someone does negate free will. God doesnt force... if that is what you are saying or implying. God simply gives instructions... its up to you to choose not to abide by them or not. Hitler forced people to believe in what he wants them to believe in... a dictator. God simply lays out instructions on how to get to the right door. He doesnt force you to believe in it. Hitler forced others to believe in his vision or they would die. God lays out instructions of how to make through the system but he doesnt say you have to believe in it or you die. Right....under Christianity.... if one chooses another way in the system you will die but the option to choose or not was there in the first place. Hitler gave no options... he dictated... God instructs and allows you to be who ever or whatever you want... the consequences arent optional. Thats freedom... thats free will. Again there is a difference between choice and consequences ... this is a paramount distinction in the understanding of free will in Christianity.

I'm not even talking about who or what God is if he is true or what way is the right way or whatever... im simply hitting on free will as it is understood in Judeo Christianity... i believe. I am trying to be as objective as possible.

Originally posted by LuDaCrIs
Thats another thing....why are there other religions...i mean how do we know that ours is the right one (I am supposedly Christian)....So i guess i am asking all the Christians out there this question...

i am also surprised that more people dont realize that religion is the cause of many of the worlds problems...i am not suggesting we get rid of them somehow i am just observing....

A better question to ask would be: "Why are there so many denominations of Christianity? How do we know which one is right?"

But anyway, there are more religions because "proof" of one religion's validity does not work for a group of people, and they form their own "proof" of their own beliefs to satisfy themselves.

And it is true that religion is the cause of many world problems, however, the world will always have problems, and as far as I'm concerned, we've reached the "point of no return" concerning the end of the world and our part in it, so I'm not too worried about a few problems caused by religion.

Thats another thing....why are there other religions...i mean how do we know that ours is the right one (I am supposedly Christian)....So i guess i am asking all the Christians out there this question

Interestingly enough, the majority of the world's population, are Buddhists... Which means, that if you, as a Christian, are correct, then more than half of the world's population is doomed to damnation for non-belief. Kind of opens your eyes, eh? Does this sound like a God worthy of your worship?

I think that we (as humans) have some basic concepts of religion correct...but we tend to assign details, and rituals, based on culture, that do not really belong to the true nature of things..

Originally posted by LuDaCrIs
Thats another thing....why are there other religions...i mean how do we know that ours is the right one (I am supposedly Christian)....So i guess i am asking all the Christians out there this question...

only way i know of clearing this mess up is if you are sincerly seeeking the truth it will find you. just seek however way you want to do it.
i on the other hand used that method plus recieved an answer based on evidence. What kind of evidence? Prophecy and its fulfillment. Jesus and His miracles, the resurrection of Christ, etc.

Originally posted by LuDaCrIs
i am also surprised that more people dont realize that religion is the cause of many of the worlds problems...i am not suggesting we get rid of them somehow i am just observing....

well thats the easy way of assigning blame for the worlds problems... understandable. a lot of people realize this... your the thousandth person i heard complain about this. however what many people really dont realize is how the religions of atheism and humanism are the cause of so many of the worlds problems just as much as the obvious world religions are. the root factor here is the sin nature of man (christian concept i know)... no religion or group of people is except from that.



[Edited on 23-1-2004 by krossfyter]