Oh c'mon....How the hell are they gonna explain that! How did the ancient's move 450 TON blocks?! That's more than the pyramids! I'm sorry....but history needs a rewrite... There is no way..not a single chance, that they used wood, copper, stone this time... not for 450 TONS and especially not for the largest one at 1200 TONS!

EXACTLY, James !!

And yet...there is silence!? I can't believe no one else here has anything to comment on this....

unless dinosaurs still existed and were train as slaves heh, yes i also agree history and all the history books that go out to schools need a major overhaul. global mapmakers from different countries did a slight refinement of their maps. for instance Africa will exaggerate the size of their continent to make them seem more powerful

Best guess it was sound technology

How did they employ sound technology to move such huge blocks though?

I'd started posting something and then got pulled away.

However, there's plenty of examples of ancients moving around 40 and 80 ton blocks of stone. The Easter Island statues weigh up to 120 tons and the islanders showed Hyderdahl how they moved them manually.

No aliens, just muscle power.

Ok... How much muscle power did it take to move these much much bigger blocks uphill and then lift them into place? Read this from that link...

Next there is the problem of how the mammoth blocks, once they were brought to the site, were lifted and precisely placed in position. It has been theorized that the stones were raised using a complex array of scaffolding, ramps and pulleys that was powered by large numbers of humans and animals working in unison. An historical example of this method has been suggested as the solution for the Baalbek enigma. The Renaissance architect Domenico Fontana, when erecting a 327-ton Egyptian obelisk in front of St Peter's Basilica in Rome, used 40 huge pulleys, which necessitated a combined force of 800 men and 140 horses. The area where this obelisk was erected, however, was a great open space that could easily accommodate all the lifting apparatus and the men and horses pulling on the ropes. No such space is available in the spatial context of how the Baalbek stones were placed. Hills slope away from where lifting apparatus would need to have been placed and no evidence has been found of a flat and structurally firm surface having been constructed (and then mysteriously removed after the lifting was done). Furthermore, not just one obelisk was erected but rather a series of giant stones were precisely put in place side-by-side. Due to the positioning of these stones, there is simply no conceivable place where a huge pulley apparatus could have been stationed.

It too gives an example of the ancient's moving stone as you've said...but this site is older and different...as shown... If engineer's of today can find no way of doing it using ancient method's...how did the ancient's do it then. Obviously not the same way as there other....much lighter constructions...

Originally posted by Byrd
I'd started posting something and then got pulled away.

However, there's plenty of examples of ancients moving around 40 and 80 ton blocks of stone. The Easter Island statues weigh up to 120 tons and the islanders showed Hyderdahl how they moved them manually.

No aliens, just muscle power.

120 tons, so what ?
If you had read the post you will see that many weighed several hundred tons and some over 1000 tons. Muscle Power ..... YEAH RIGHT !!!!

I have read a Charles Berlitz book when I was 11 or 12 years old.He was speaking about these blocks ans stones. I think that we can say it's still a mystery how they moved them !

With sound any object can be moved, it just has to be loud enough and the right pitch (say for instance a million decibels). Ancient man had batteries and therefore the ability to generate sound electronically (Note that the Egyptian priests were often deaf). Its also possible the ancients discovered that they could generate Negative sound in which case there would be no noise.

Hrmmm... First...How do we know the priest's were deaf?

Is there anything depicting or showing the ancient's used the batteries for generating sound in speaker's? Or anything depicting speaker's for that matter...

I know they had batteries, but I've never heard anything about speaker's....or amplifier's, to generate large decible's of sound...

Note: This discussion started on Alt.Sci.Physics.Acoustics Newsgroup and was forwarded to acoustic-ecology discussion group. Some additional comments have been collected by email.

At least two structures at the Mayan ruins of Chichen Itza in Mexican display unusual and unexplained acoustical properties.


The Great Ballcourt:
The Great Ballcourt is 545 feet long and 225 feet wide overall. It has no vault, no continuity between the walls and is totally open to the sky.
Each end has a raised "temple" area. A whisper from end can be heard clearly at the other end 500 feet away and through the length and breath of the court. The sound waves are unaffected by wind direction or time of day/night. Archaeologists engaged in the reconstruction noted that the sound transmission became stronger and clearer as they proceeded. In 1931 Leopold Stokowski spent 4 days at the site to determine the acoustic principals that could be applied to an open-air concert theater he was designing.

Stokowski failed to learn the secret.


The Castillo:
This structure is a temple that looks like a pyramid and is the one most commonly pictured on travel brochures for the Mexican Yucatan. Apparently if you stand facing the foot of the temple and shout the echo comes back as a piercing shriek. Also, a person standing on the top step can speak in a normal voice and be heard by those at ground level for some distance. This quality is also shared by another Mayan pyramid at Tikal.
I believe a good case can be made that the Maya somehow engineered these acoustical phenomena. After months of research, I cannot locate any scientific discussion or investigations regarding any of this. Any information or comments appreciated.

Wayne Van Kirk
wvk@mail.phoenix.net


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-Response-
I was at Chichen Itza two years ago. These acoustic phenomena are fascinating. The idea that they were intentionally engineered is not implausible, but it seems clear that it would have been different than our definition of 'engineering' in the modern world.
It is really cool though and I would enjoy knowing more about it if people can add to the discussion.


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-Response-
There are other "undocumented" acoustical properties of the ruins. When I was there several years ago the guide showed me a stack of what looked like stone artillery shells. He said that to this day no one has been able to determine what they were for. Then with a wink he picked up two sticks and proceeded to play a tune on the "shells". Each one was precisely tuned. Perhaps the "ancients" knew more about acoustics than we give them credit for.


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-Response from reposting on acoustic-ecology discussion group -
A similar phenomenon to that reported at the Mayan ballpark structure can be experienced in Vancouver. At Science World two parabolic dishes have been set up across a large open noisy room. One can speak softly into one and the sound can be easily heard at the other end. I'm sure the two are not identical but the concept is the same and there is quite a bit of novelty appeal. The dishes are about 300 feet apart and have approx. a four foot radius. The effect only works when one speaks at or listens from the focal point of each dish which is not consistent with the report from Mexico, however, it might be a starting point into thinking about how it works.
I also heard a similar phenomenon during last year's Vancouver Folk Music Festival. I work at the Jericho Sailing Centre about 1/4 mile due west of the westernmost edge of the festival site. between the sailing centre and the site is a small hill, large enough to block out a good deal of the ruckus (except of course for the low frequencies). The west wall of the centre is about 35 feet high and about 60 feet long, it's surface is stucco and glass. Standing in front of it, I could hear perfectly the performances from one of the westernmost stages of the festival.

My theory (and this is just plain speculation, no math involved here) is that the wall is high enough to reflect the sound that was being blocked by the hill. The stucco provided enough surfaces at the right angle to bounce the sound down. It could have also been bent down around the hill, by a temperature inversion or some other atmospheric or geographical factor but that theory breaks down because the sound was quite clear only in front of the wall. Clarity also varied at different distances and positions in front of the wall.


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-Response-
I think you are awfully lucky to be able to go to the wonderful Vancouver Folk Festival whenever you like. ;-)
Seriously, there's also Michelangelo's dome in St Peter's/Rome. A whisper from the dome can be heard in the church. I believe there are some humorous stories associated with this particular phenomenon.


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-Response-
RE: The Castillo:
The 'piercing shriek' sounds like it originates from some sort of periodic structure. Is the Castillo covered with stone steps? A similar effect occurs when you clap your hands near an iron fence or corrugated wall, and the impulse is returned from each corrugation. The echo then sounds like a 'twang.'

The acoustic ducting effect is something else again. Might a periodic structure on the building surface act to diffract the waves and make them follow the surface?


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[Edited on 6-12-2002 by Toltec]

If you can figure out how what is presented was possible perhaps you can extrapolate how they used sound to move objects. This is not to say I have information relevant to how it was possible, as it happened so very very long ago

Nahhhhh

PS: So tell me James can you explain the above??

[Edited on 6-12-2002 by Toltec]

What's the deal with all the SPAM Toltec ? I don't suppose you want to remove some of it ?!

This is not spam MS it is a response to James in relation to how sound technology can be used. This article is from a website which I have saved to disk. It is not advertising but a conversation held in relation to the issue of sound technology. Its all very authentic and its intent is to present the validity of the matter.

Which parts of it do you feel are invalid to the topic?

Tell you what will remove the middle two

[Edited on 6-12-2002 by Toltec]

I thought you were posting the whole articles unecessarily, instead of posting the links. However as you've explained they're saved to disk, so you can't do that. My apologies Toltec.

Ok my take on how they built this is using energy. There are certain places that have more energy than others so people could channel more energy. The ancient people probably knew about this energy and used psi to help them move the huge blocks. I think they used muscle also, but i think the energy helped.