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Round 1. TheBorg v. semperfortis: SuperHeavy Metal

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posted on Aug, 7 2007 @ 01:17 AM
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The topic for this debate is "It is likely that Element 115 will be found to have properties which make it useful to advanced space travel".

TheBorg will be arguing the pro position and will open the debate.
semperfortis will argue the con position.

Each debater will have one opening statement each. This will be followed by 3 alternating replies each. There will then be one closing statement each and no rebuttal.


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Opening and closing statements must not contain any images, and must have no more than 3 references. Excluding both the opening and closing statements, only two images and no more than 5 references can be included for each post.


Responses should be made within 24 hours, if people are late with their replies, they run the risk of forfeiting their reply and possibly the debate. Limited grace periods may be allowed if I am notified in advance.


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When this thread becomes unlocked, you may proceed.




posted on Aug, 8 2007 @ 12:29 AM
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Stable Super Heavy Metal: The Future of Element 115 – TheBorg: Round 1 Opening

I would like to take this chance to thank The Vagabond for this opportunity to pit myself against some of the best minds on ATS on a subject of interest to myself and others involved in science. Also, I’d like to thank semperfortis for another opportunity to “lock horns”. There’s no one I like to spar with more. Again, thanks to both of you.

Now onto the issue of the day. This is an issue that I find extremely important to our expansion into the cosmos. It is my opinion that element 115 has all the earmarks of an element stable enough to handle the rigors of space travel. Should it be discovered in a more stable form, then maybe it could be harnessed, and added as an alloy to the next space shuttle’s exterior. This is but one possible use for this new element. To better grasp the importance of this element, we’ll need to understand a theoretical concept called the “Island of Stability”.

The basis for the Island of Stability lies in the stable numbers, or “magic numbers”, as they’re referred to, of protons and neutrons in each element’s nucleus. If the numbers of protons and neutrons are in the magic series, then the element that it composes is more likely to be stable for a longer period of time. This means that the half-life of the element will be longer, which means that it takes longer for it to break apart into its component elements. The hope is that scientists will be able to find a stable form of element 115, and exploit it to aid us in space travel.

I believe this is likely, as we have all of the technology that we need to get this element in a stable form. It was discovered in 2004, and since then, scientists everywhere have been in search of a more stable form of it, as it’s only been reported to stay in existence for no more than 1.5 seconds before breaking down into its smaller, more stable sub-elements.

The most immediate draw for this and other elements though is the possibility of a super-dense substance that could be used in small quantities to protect our astronauts while they’re traveling in space. The cost could be kept down if a way to use only a small amount of the substance to reinforce our current spacesuits can be found. Should that be the case, we could stay in space for longer, making our trips more productive, as well as more economical.

The likelihood of discovering some useful characteristic in element 115 is assured. Humans have adapted everything they’ve found, regardless of it’s hazards to health, to be usable by them in some form or fashion. It’s only a matter of time until element 115 is added to this list.

TheBorg



posted on Aug, 8 2007 @ 06:49 PM
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Firstly allow me to thank The Vagabond for this debate series and of course my valued opponent with whom I have fought before.

Now on to Semper’s Opening.

"It is likely that Element 115 will be found to have properties which make it useful to advanced space travel".

During this debate I intend on concentrating on several points, taking my stance in more than one direction in order to more specifically illustrate the futility of the premature speculations on Element 115.

Specifically I will address our current lack of knowledge in regards to “Advanced” space travel, our even more inadequate available information as to the environment some are speculating Element 115 would be useful in and even more poignant, our current inability to produce the vehicles capable of the speed and livability necessary for advanced space travel; and of course the fact that we know so little about any properties of Element 115 at the current time.

Talk about putting the cart before the horse!
Here the scientific community has a new and exciting element that without a doubt merits exploration and investigation. Yet we have those that are already designing the new space suit, and no thought is being included as to a propulsion system, vehicle or environmental system that could sustain, propel and service an astronaut for the periods of time necessary to traverse the distances being speculated on.

Any debate on Element 115 must, by default include, the factual relevant current information available, such as:

No stable isotopes have yet been found. We have managed to “fabricate” isotopes to 173 neurons; far short of the 184 necessary to “theoretically” achieve the magic island of stability. With out this stability the element remains virtually useless in any application as we are debating.

While fascinating, Element 115 is still mostly theoretical and any properties it may or may not have, open to conjecture.

As far as research goes into this element, there is some promising evidence and supplemental results that have been obtained in strict laboratory environments, on which I will elaborate as the debate unfolds. However there seems to be much speculation on the writings of Bob Lazar in reference to this element.

Bob Lazar’s claimed knowledge and research into the properties of Element 115, make for good reading and admittedly are popular, however they must be tempered with his other accounts and claims as to his work and experiences, thereby throwing Element 115 directly into conspiracy theorist territory and not real science. Yet.

Semper



posted on Aug, 9 2007 @ 07:07 PM
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24 Hours has passed. TheBorg forfeits this reply.
Semperfortis, you may continue your argument.



posted on Aug, 10 2007 @ 11:00 PM
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SuperHeavy Metal

Continued:

Semper’s 1st Reply

For the time being due to the controversy surrounding Mr. Lazar, I will concentrate on a few of the other more scientific reasons that Element 115 should not be considered for advanced space travel at this time. More accurately, it is far too early to make the assumption that it will assist us in anyway in our space program.

First and perhaps most importantly stands the fact that so very little is known about this element. In 2004 scientists were able to create four atoms of the substance that existed nano-seconds before breaking down. A short time later, a Russian contingent managed to duplicate the experiment. The Swiss have also made advances, yet no experiment has yielded results for any length of time, and there are sections of the scientific community that believe it never will. Much like Global Warming, we have a myth, with some small portion of fact, being blown all out of proportion.

Back to my basics.

Advanced space travel. Depending on what that means to each individual, or more accurately what images it brings to mind, we must never allow ourselves to deviate from the reality that mankind is decades away from even exploring “Our” solar system. To speculate on advanced space travel is inherently human, to prepare an unknown element for that possible future, is ludicrous.

My opponent speaks of Element 115, in his opinion, having the properties to “Handle the Rigors of Space Travel.” I would be seriously interested in the science behind such a statement. A few atoms existing for a scant few nano-seconds can hardly be the future of “space wear.”

My opponent’s summation of the Island of Stability is more or less accurate yet meaningless in any practical application. Even if scientists are able to sustain a stable form of 115, there is no current way of ascertaining the properties of that element at this point. Anything else is pure speculation or hopeful pondering.

My opponent speaks of “us” having all the technology necessary to “get this” to a stable form. I must point out that the fact is we do not. If we did, the element would have been sustained and we would have an entire different argument. There are just too many unknowns at this time to make a qualified hypothesis.

My opponent has even postulated on one use of the substance in space; that of using it to create a space suit to protect astronauts from hazards in space. That is very interesting knowing what we do about the element or even what we can expect to find as a hazard in deep space.
We do not know what the properties of this element are going to be. Whether they will be toxic to humans, dangerous to sustain or control or the greatest element ever discovered. We just do not have the information needed to begin creating suits, vehicles or food containers.


It is the very nature of mankind to speculate, fantasize and hope for the future. The danger begins when that fantasy becomes an expectation. We have come a long way in so very short a period of time. Let’s face it; man began flying through our atmosphere just over a hundred years ago; walked on the moon less than forty years ago and have just begun the age of Quantum Computing; absolutely tremendous advancements in a ridiculously short period of time. We have no need to begin fantasizing about some new miracle element that will solve all of our problems. We are doing just fine solving them ourselves.

This does not mean in anyway that I oppose the research into Element 115; quite the contrary. I support any and all scientific experiments that have or show any significant chance of practical use. It is the “jumping to conclusions” and “wild speculations” that I oppose and do so vehemently. If the research and experimentation begins to actually show promise and we are able to truly determine the inherent properties of this element, then we may begin to debate the practical applications. Until then we must only find it interesting and not promising.

I will address Mr. Lazar’s research in my next reply.

Thank you for your time.

Semper.



posted on Aug, 12 2007 @ 01:04 AM
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Stable Super Heavy Metal: The Future of Element 115 – TheBorg: Reply 2

I would first like to apologize for my absence with my first reply. Life threw me a fastball that left me no time but to spend a couple of minutes doing any one thing. It appears though that my very esteemed opponent has been hard at work making a very convincing argument for his cause. I will now reply to a few of his statements.


… no thought is being included as to a propulsion system, vehicle or environmental system that could sustain, propel and service an astronaut for the periods of time necessary to traverse the distances being speculated on.


Regardless of the amounts of time being speculated on here, the point is that the uses for this new element will yield new developments in design of the shuttle and all of its components. Whether the space trip is 2 months or 3 years is irrelevant to whether this element will do what is being speculated on. If it could be made to simply protect our astronauts until they can make it to the moon, then it will have been worth it, as they will have something with which they can depend to get them to and from locations in space. I really fail to see how the periods of time apply here.


Any debate on Element 115 must, by default include, the factual relevant current information available, such as:


I would at this time like to point out the question that we were faced with at the beginning of this debate:

"It is likely that Element 115 will be found to have properties which make it useful to advanced space travel".

Now, this precludes everything that we discuss herein. The facts of this element are very limited, as it’s only been observed twice, and only then for 1.5 seconds at the longest. As most can guess, not much information can be gathered from this short of an observation. Also, the question that this debate is centered around implies that we speculate as to the likelihood of this element becoming of some use to us. So to say that we must accept certain criteria to move on in a debate about something with very limited information is limiting in and of itself.

The only thing that anyone must accept here is that this new element has been observed, and that it’s super-dense. Anymore information is at best speculation, as none of it has yet to be substantiated by anyone. Again, the question implies speculation.

With that said, I would like to point out that the nearest verified elements to 115 that has a use that could be very valuable to space-faring peoples is Curium, element number 96. According to Corrosion Source, this element has exhibited properties that could be useful as a power source. It occurs naturally in very small quantities in Uranium, and has a charge of about 1W per gram. This is but one example of what one element near 115 can do. We can do nothing but speculate as to what new, very important uses 115 has in store for us.

Space suit enhancements and shuttle structural upgrades may not be a valid use for this new element, but as has been said, these are mere speculations. The next speculation that I’d like to suggest is that perhaps, this new element may be the element that we discover has some ability to create a shell, likened to an atmosphere, around itself. Remember now that it is super-dense, and that means that this element has a lot of free-moving electrons. If they could be harnessed and controlled to some limited degree, perhaps we could learn to create a space shield out of it to block the gamma rays from the Sun that we encounter every time that we travel, all without putting our astronauts in harm’s way.


My opponent speaks of Element 115, in his opinion, having the properties to “Handle the Rigors of Space Travel.” I would be seriously interested in the science behind such a statement. A few atoms existing for a scant few nano-seconds can hardly be the future of “space wear.”


Maybe not space wear, but it may be what gets us from one point to another. In addition to my previous speculations, perhaps it can be used as a propellant. Since it’s already very volatile, we could use it as a source of fuel for a new type of rocket propulsion. The development of such technology would benefit all who use it. It would be perfect to go long distances, as it gets faster as it goes further.


Even if scientists are able to sustain a stable form of 115, there is no current way of ascertaining the properties of that element at this point. Anything else is pure speculation or hopeful pondering.


Which, in and of itself, is all that we can do at this point, no? The point that needs to be made is that without more information, everything that we debate on this will be based entirely on speculation, as there is no information to tell us what to make of it. However, we’ve been given hints that would suggest what this element could be capable of, with the nearby elements of Curium and Uranium. True, all of them are radioactive, but we use radioactive materials all of the time for fuels. This one could be no different. The likelihood that we’ll discover a way to make it useful to the space program is almost assured, since that’s the next logical step for humanity. All attention will be paid to getting out there.

In my next reply, I will elaborate on what impacts these technologies will have on all of us.

TheBorg



posted on Aug, 12 2007 @ 09:02 PM
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Super Heavy Metal

Continued

Semper’s Second Reply:

Response to TheBorg posting.


Regardless of the amounts of time being speculated on here, the point is that the uses for this new element will yield new developments in design of the shuttle and all of its components.


My opponent’s optimism is admirable although somewhat misplaced or perhaps premature is a better analogy. Many elements have been discovered throughout the ages that have yielded wonderful advances in many areas of science, not simply the science of space travel. To proclaim without reservation that this element “will” produce anything that assists us in our space program is pure speculation with no foundation in fact.


If it could be made to simply protect our astronauts until they can make it to the moon, then it will have been worth it, as they will have something with which they can depend to get them to and from locations in space


At least here my opponent did use “if” to preface the fantasy. However he continues to fantasize about some role this element may play in a real life application; the same element that has only ever existed for seconds after years of applying our best science. The fact remains that many in the scientific community are still not convinced that this will ever be anything more than an oddity.


Also, the question that this debate is centered around implies that we speculate as to the likelihood of this element becoming of some use to us. So to say that we must accept certain criteria to move on in a debate about something with very limited information is limiting in and of itself.


Examining the “likelihood” of any subject in a debate does not include specifically relegating that subject to a real life task. The element is interesting and I am sure as time progresses will produce more results that are also interesting. It is simply too early to assign this element to a role in space travel.


the nearest verified elements to 115 that has a use that could be very valuable to space-faring peoples is Curium, element number 96. According to Corrosion Source, this element has exhibited properties that could be useful as a power source.


The source quoted indicated that Curium produces one half watt per gram of thermal energy.

www.corrosionsource.com...


• 242 Cm generates about three watts of thermal energy per gram.
• This compares to one-half watt per gram of 238Pu.
• This suggests use for curium as a power source.


The key word here being suggests. At that current power production, it may be used to power the flashlights if there can be a way discovered to protect against the incredible toxicity of Curium.

According to the same source, the maximum permissible body burden for humans is 0.3 microcure, and it is accumulative.


The remainder of my opponents post is simply more speculation and little about the element itself.

As any conversation about the uses of Element 115 must be speculation, I submit that the actual application of this element in space travel is more fantasy than fact and negates any scientific hypothesis that made be made at this time.


Robert Scott Lazar.

Claims to have worked in an area called S4 as a physicist; he also however claims to have degrees from California and Massachusetts, neither of which can be verified. There also exists a W2 form for Mr. Lazar from the time when he claims to have worked at this very secret facility.

With that established Mr. Lazar claims that he was given military briefings on the history of extraterrestrial beings and our involvement and the use of Element 115 as a source of propulsion and in Anti Gravity use as well.

R.S.Lazar


All of Mr. Lazars claims are fascinating and fun reading, but I would suggest caution in any serious consideration as to the reality of the science behind his postulations. Mr. Lazar is apparently currently occupied in the production of fireworks and the coordination of something called “The Desert Blast.” Perhaps we should go back to the science behind Element 115 and leave the fantasy where it belongs.

I will reiterate my position here again.

This debate is titled: "It is likely that Element 115 will be found to have properties which make it useful to advanced space travel".

Having only experienced a life of a little over a second, one time in a laboratory; I would suggest that science indicates it is “NOT” likely that Element 115 will have properties that are useful to space travel, or anything specific at this time.

Thank You

Semper



posted on Aug, 13 2007 @ 09:27 PM
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Stable Super Heavy Metal: The Future of Element 115 – TheBorg: Reply 3

In this reply, I am going to answer some of the points made by my opponent, as well as to elaborate on the potential impacts of element 115 in space travel.


To proclaim without reservation that this element “will” produce anything that assists us in our space program is pure speculation with no foundation in fact.


Quite the opposite is true. My opponent suggests here that any new discovery wouldn’t immediately be used in space travel, when every newly discovered technology is pitted against what we need in space and elsewhere. Whether it’s a better electrical system, or something as simple as a more efficient insulator, NASA looks into all of them for use in the Space Program. So, to say that this element wouldn’t be analyzed for it’s usefulness in space travel would be negligent in any regard.


However he continues to fantasize about some role this element may play in a real life application; the same element that has only ever existed for seconds after years of applying our best science.


According to www.uic.com.au..., Uranium was discovered in 1789. Only in recent years did man learn to harness Uranium’s natural abilities to use it for energy generation. Do we now assume that the likelihood of such a discovery is not going to happen in the near future, based on what we know now of element 115? I highly doubt it.


It is simply too early to assign this element to a role in space travel.


On the contrary, we should be examining the possibilities of this element’s being useable in some fashion with the missions coming in the next 20 years. This element represents the best opportunity to capitalize on a very rare fuel for the interests of the expansion into space. To deny the obvious potential impacts of this element would not be wise.


As any conversation about the uses of Element 115 must be speculation, I submit that the actual application of this element in space travel is more fantasy than fact and negates any scientific hypothesis that made be made at this time.


We must accept the fact that we will have to be venturing into space within at least the next one hundred years. Should we expect to make any long term plans to remain out there, we’ll need to evaluate new discoveries as they come out to make the best use of them. To shut element 115 out just because so little is known about it means that we could be preventing ourselves from making a discovery that could revolutionize space travel altogether. We stand at a unique point; one that can go one of two directions. We can either embrace the possibility that this element will yield something good for us and explore it further, or we can just throw it away, and accept that it’s nothing “more than an oddity.”

My opponent then goes on to speak about Bob Lazar. While he even admits that his stories are just that, stories, he entertains them as being of interest. While I find myself agreeing with this assessment of Bob Lazar, I’m also wondering what the point to his mentioning it was. Perhaps he was privy to information that no one else was. Bear in mind however, that Mr. Lazar has yet to be proven to be in the employ of the US Government at any point whatsoever. We’re taking his word on this. Should that proof come to light, then extra consideration and weight should be given to his words.

In my last post, I mentioned that I would:

In my next reply, I will elaborate on what impacts these technologies will have on all of us.


Having described several possible uses for element 115, the question comes to mind, “how will this benefit humankind?” Well, to answer that is a bit of a tough question, with no more information than we currently have. When we at some point discover that 115 has a use that we can utilize for the advancement of all of mankind, then it will be brought into public eye as a new resource. Until then though, the verdict is out. Will it be useful to humans in any respect? Yes, I believe it will. It has potential to become the next Uranium for a new generation of space travelers. We are about to witness the advancement of man into the cosmos, and it will be even more of a momentous occasion to have element 115 along for the ride.

This element may be what we need to create a new fuel, which will change the economies of the world, and anywhere that we go from here. The impacts can be as varied as they are many. When it’s discovered to be useful to us, we’ll be able to market it to others, which will help with foreign relations. While any thoughts on this element are preliminary, it could be the element that brings world peace. It has the potential to become something that no one even imagined it being. The hard part now is the wait.

I look forward to the day that element 115 is brought forward.

TheBorg



posted on Aug, 13 2007 @ 11:58 PM
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Super Heavy Metal

Continued

Semper’s Third Reply:

Let’s examine the actual title of the debate for a second.


"It is likely that Element 115 will be found to have properties which make it useful to advanced space travel".


Likely; not eventually, or remotely, Likely.

Likely is defined as

1. Probably or apparently destined (usually fol. by an infinitive): something not likely to happen.
2. seeming like truth, fact, or certainty; reasonably to be believed or expected; believable: a likely story.


Online Dictionary


When you examine the verbiage, “Probably, Apparently Destined, Seeming like Truth and most dramatically the word FACT, the debate over the “Likelihood of Element 115” being anything falls in the realm of hypothesis and is removed from scientific fact.

We are debating the “likelihood” of this element becoming useful for advanced space travel. Not that it will become useful at some point in some currently unknown fashion. I submit to you that there is far too little promise shown at this time to attach the word “likely” to this element.

Also keep in mind that we are discussing “advanced” space travel. Not the coming and going of our current Space Shuttle Program. As successful and fascinating as that program has been, we can not assign the term “advanced” to a program that has been in production and effect for over 20 years.

The terminology “Advanced Space Travel” brings to mind many, different visualizations to all of us. Whether it is travel to the vastness of another galaxy, or the exploration of our own solar system, the words Advanced Space Travel by definition is more than the shuttle program, walking on the moon or orbiting this rock we call home.

What will advanced space travel look like? What propulsion systems will be used? Will we be able to attain the necessary speeds or use a hibernation system? All of these questions most likely will be answered by our children and our children’s children. Our knowledge is NOT there yet and to assign Element 115 to a place in this future is not only premature, it is scientifically irresponsible at this time in our current stage of scientific development.

The element has existed for mere seconds and we are already prepared to produce a new unknown propulsion system and space suits using…. What?...... Exactly.

Now my opponent says:


Whether it’s a better electrical system, or something as simple as a more efficient insulator, NASA looks into all of them for use in the Space Program. So, to say that this element wouldn’t be analyzed for it’s usefulness in space travel would be negligent in any regard.


Exactly my point.

NASA, and her counter parts in other nations, LOOK FOR the elements, raw materials and scientific advancements that will further the goals of space exploration. Not the other way around. Everything that is discovered or manufactured is not done so simply to assist in space travel.



Uranium was discovered in 1789. Only in recent years did man learn to harness Uranium’s natural abilities to use it for energy generation.


And one day Element 115 may prove worthy in some manner as yet unknown. But to assign the tern likely to an element that has existed for seconds and then only in a laboratory is, as I have previously stated, premature at best.


we should be examining the possibilities of this element’s being useable in some fashion with the missions coming in the next 20 years.


At its current rate of stability, Element 115 will exist for a WHOPPING ten seconds in 20 years. I can not even speculate on the use of an element that exists for 110 seconds in any application, much less space travel.


This element represents the best opportunity to capitalize on a very rare fuel for the interests of the expansion into space. To deny the obvious potential impacts of this element would not be wise.


Again I would invite my opponent to elaborate on the scientific evidence that supports the terminology, “Best Opportunity” and “Obvious Potential”. To date no potential has been proven at all much less an obvious one. So I am unsure as to what opportunity my opponent is speaking of.



My opponent then goes on to speak about Bob Lazar. While he even admits that his stories are just that, stories, he entertains them as being of interest.


What makes Mr. Lazar’s stories interesting in this debate, is the sudden interest in an element that has such a limited life-span and its relationship to space travel. I would suggest that it is Mr. Lazar’s stories that have fueled the wild speculations as to the use of this element and its currently unknown abilities.

I do not know what the future of Element 115 is. Whether it is a new source of energy, material for a space suit or will it be used to make new cocktail glasses for Donald Trump.
What I do know is that at this time, knowing what we do about the element, it is NOT “likely” to be anything. To begin to plan for the use of this element in “Advanced Space Travel” is a wonderful fantasy, but in no manner scientifically sound.

Thank You

Semper



posted on Aug, 14 2007 @ 11:55 PM
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Stable Super Heavy Metal: The Future of Element 115 – TheBorg: Closing

Well, it’s that time again. We have witnessed the birth of another element, and the beginning of a journey that most likely will take us into space as new knowledge comes to light. Element 115 has all of the promise of being such an element because it’s super-dense, which lends it to the unique task of acting as a fuel. Only when we finally harness it will it’s true utilities become known to us. We’ve also explored other intriguing possibilities that may yet come to light as this element’s fate is finally determined. The truth is that the likelihood that this element will be used in space travel, on some basic level at least, is again almost assured.

Throughout the last 3 postings, I’ve lead you all on a journey through what might be in the future of element 115. While nothing is ever for certain, there are a few specific things we can deduce from history. One of these is that the elements closest to 115 all share a few things in common. They all are radioactive, they all are super-dense, and they all have been utilized for some task that can be tied to space exploration.

While my opponent has made a very convincing argument against the validity of the claims that I’ve made, one thing remains certain. That one thing is that our futures are going to be going out into the cosmos, whether anyone likes it or not. Element 115, in it’s brief showing, has given us hope that we may yet find a way to make traveling the vast distances in space at least somewhat bearable. Is element 115 ultimately likely to be one of those elements? Most likely, yes. When we learn how to harness 115, and keep it in a stable form, which we will, we will then learn how it can best be used to aid us. The most natural application will be in space flight, as that’s where we’re .ing. As anyone knows, when something new is discovered, the first thing that happens is a celebration occurs for the founder, and then the long process of discovery takes over. We learn all we can about the new discovery, and then apply what we’ve learned. This is how we advance forward.

My opponent has asked one question which I feel that I must answer:

Again I would invite my opponent to elaborate on the scientific evidence that supports the terminology, “Best Opportunity” and “Obvious Potential”. To date no potential has been proven at all much less an obvious one. So I am unsure as to what opportunity my opponent is speaking of.


The potential lies in the fact that this element presents a unique opportunity to learn about something of which we know little to nothing. Will it turn up something usable in space exploration? I challenge my opponent to show me one recent discovery that hasn’t been usable in space exploration. Anything usable in any capacity in space will aid us in any advanced space journey which we undertake.

At this time, I would like to thank all of ATS for allowing me to get up here and debate a question that I feel strongly about. As I’ve already stated, the true fate of this element is as yet undetermined. However, when a use for it does come, and it will, an application in advanced space travel will be one of the first that will be found.

Thank you The Vagabond and semperfortis for this opportunity. And yet another thanks goes out to the ATS members. Without you, we’d just be talking to ourselves.

God Bless, and Goodnight,

TheBorg

(this post has been edited to correct board coding issues)

[edit on 15-8-2007 by The Vagabond]



posted on Aug, 15 2007 @ 12:39 PM
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Super Heavy Metal

Continued

Semper’s Closing:

Let us examine the original and still relevant title to this debate.


"It is likely that Element 115 will be found to have properties which make it useful to advanced space travel".


In this debate I have shown you conclusively and scientifically that Element 115 is NOT likely to have properties that make it useful in space travel. In fact it is clear that Element 115 is NOT likely to have any properties that are useful to anyone for anything at this time.

My opponent wishes for you to imagine that every substance in the world can be used for space travel, including Element 115; thereby his stance on the debate is upheld by default.

He also imagines properties coming from this element that will change the face of the world and travel, especially space travel. I can imagine a time when we all have super powers and fly around everywhere. It is not going to be true, but I can imagine it.

The scientific facts are::::

The element in question has only ever existed in laboratory conditions. Some scientists believe that it will never exist otherwise.

The element in question has lived for 1.2 seconds at one time and nano-seconds another.

The element in question has never exhibited properties that are helpful, useful or even really interesting.

As such, Element 115 is NOT likely to be or do anything.

In this debate I have shown where applying the term “Likely” to anything as unknown as Element 115 is never a sound scientific practice. If one does this, then there is no limit to what must be investigated as being “likely” to assist us in space travel. We would have to test and investigate Mayonnaise, Silly Putty and Rust, as all of these materials are as “LIKELY” as Element 115 to assist us in Advanced Space Travel.

My opponent would like to play on all of our fantasies and hopes for the future of space exploration. Even becoming specific as to what areas he feels Element 115 will assist us in. That is wonderful for our dreams and hopes, but this is a debate and I have chosen to concentrate on the scientific.

Finally,
I also hope that Element 115 is the answer to so many questions we currently face in Space Travel. I also have dreams and fantasies.

But this debate is about the “likelihood” of the element being useful in advanced space travel.

What will the future hold for Element 115? Who knows?

But for now, at this present time, I have proven that it is NOT likely that Element 115 will be found to have properties which make it useful to advanced space travel.

Thank You!!!!! TheBorg for this challenging and wonderful debate.

Also a Heartfelt Thanks go to The Vagabond and all the MODS that makes these debates possible.

Semper



posted on Aug, 15 2007 @ 02:11 PM
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And it's off to the judges



posted on Aug, 17 2007 @ 11:25 PM
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The judges have spoken, and this debate goes to Semperfortis.


The Borg battled valiantly with the difficult side of this debate but semperfortis wins it.



This debate necessarily included a lot of speculation, but at least a thin scientific basis for that speculation would have been very helpful. TheBorg's speculation was a bit fanciful, and I didn't sense a deep conviction in it- he even let Semperfortis push him around with respect to the stability of 115, which should have been virtually a "gimme" for TheBorg's position.



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