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United 93 Still Airborne After Alleged Crash - According To ATC/Radar
1405 (10:05 a.m.)
ntmo-e: ok united ninety three we're now receiving a transponder on and he is at eighty two hundred feet
doug: now transponder and he's eighty two-hundred
ntmo-e: southeastbound still
doug: eighty two hundred feet and now getting a transponder on him
doug: ok buddy
ntmo-e: ok we've lost radar contact with united ninety three
doug: all right
ntmo-e: sixteen south of Johnstown where they lost united ninety three and it was heading turning one four zero heading
doug: which will put him to what do you think
ntmo-e: uh I guess that put him down coming right just west of Dulles
ntmo-e: if he stays on that heading of course
doug: how we doing John with getting stuff on the ground
ntmo-e: uh we're they 're not they 're still going to their original destinations if you look at TSD you'll see that the eastern part of the unites states is thinning out
ntmo-e: uh you know airports like dulles uh new york there we have no aircraft going into there
ntmo-e: ok uh there is now on the on united ninety three
ntmo-e: there is now a report of black smoke in the last position I gave you fifteen miles of Johnstown
doug: from the airplane or from the ground
ntmo-e: uh they're speculating it's from the aircraft
doug: ok bud
ntmo-e: uh who hit the ground that's what they're speculation it's speculation only
doug: hey john
doug: do we have anything on delta nineteen eighty nine is she still heading to cleveland?
ntmo-e: delta nineteen eighty nine was returning to Cleveland and they were no longer treating it like a hijacked aircraft
ntmo-e: I don't know if he's landed ok; the last position of united I'm going to give some coordinates united ninety three
ntmo-e: three nine five one north zero seven eight four six west
doug: zero seven eight four six
doug: all right
ntmo-e: you got the thirty nine fifty one north
doug: ya thirty nine fifty one north zero seven eighty four six west
ntmo-e: that's the last known position of united ninety three
Full Transcript Here
United 93 transponder is recognized by Air Traffic Control as airborne after alleged impact time. Some have made the excuse this is due to Coast Mode tracking. ATC did not recognize any signs of CST (Coast Mode). Further confirmation that this was not any type of "Coast Mode" is that ATC also recognized United 93 reporting an altitude. The only way ATC could observe a reported altitude is if United 93 were squawking Mode C on the transponder, which means altitude reporting capability. Further confirmation comes in the form of latitude and longitude positions reported by ATC. N39 51 - W78 46 were reported as the last known radar position of United 93. It is unclear if the position is reported as Degrees, Minutes or Decimal, however, standard aviation terminology is in Degrees, Minutes. With that said, both positions are well past the alleged United 93 Crash site.
It is impossible for ATC to have observed United 93 transponder and altitude after the reported impact time and southeast of the crash site, if United 93 did in fact crash in Shanksville as the 9/11 Commission would have you believe.
Pilots For 9/11 Truth is an organization of aviation professionals from around the globe. The organization has analyzed Flight Data provided by the National Transportation Safety Board (NTSB). The data does not support observed events. See Pandora's Black Box - Chapter Three - Flight Of United 93 for full in depth analysis of United 93 Flight Data Recorder (Black Box) data provided by the National Transportation Safety Board. The NTSB/FBI refuse to comment. Pilots For 9/11 Truth Core member list continues to grow.
Originally posted by SphinxMontreal
"Again you are trying to pick out a relatively small target surrounded by
trees and other buildings using minimal trained pilots while moving at
Yeah, and we're supposed to believe that these "minimally trained pilots" were able to maeuever an aircraft at 500 MPH into a building which was only 77 feet high. Don't mean to throw your words back at your face Mr. TinFoil Police, but "what is it"?
[edit on 23-8-2009 by SphinxMontreal]
The overall height of the White House (to the top of the roof) is 70 feet on the south and 60 feet 4 inches on the north; the façade (grade of lawn to parapet) is 60 feet on the south (lawn at 54 feet above sea level) and 50 feet 4 inches on the north.
None of what you said changes the fact that a Flight out of JFK would be much less likely to be intercepted given the amount of time "in air." As you mentioned, the flights were hijacked very quick, into the flights. So the same applies.
Yeah I was surprised to hear that quote as well. Especially considering that the White House is basically the exact same height as the Pentagon.
posted by thedman
Here we fall back on usual tinfoil trutherism - that Hani Hanjour was incompetent pilot. Yet same clowns expect him to pick out small target in crowded city.
Originally posted by Stillresearchn911
So all this talk about the unskilled hijacker pilots not being able to find the supposedly tiny 70ft tall, almost 200 ft wide White House is typical of debunkers.
As can see it took a half hour minimum before hijackers ready to take over.
Flights were hijacked minutes after takeoff, right after planes reached cruising altitude and pilots relaxed.
Originally posted by 2PacSade
I understand that to successfully hijack & fly planes into the WTC towers would be quite a slap in the face to the USA. . . But many innocent people from dozens of foreign countries were also killed, and the cowardly act united our nation for a short period of time as it's never been in decades. . .
aThe true perps don't care who they kill. Yes they are cowards.
qDid it really terrorize the common man & woman to the point of surrender? Did the terrorists actually think
this would be our response to such an act?
aNo--- it has awakened them to the true danger facing this country they are uniting to address this running amuck goment.
qDon't you think that if everything we've been told is true that the US government & military were much more embarrassed by Pentagon airspace being breached & struck with a visible & less than super-sonic commercial airliner?
aYou must be out of the loop to think there is any official truth.
Mortified and pissed would be the emotions of the military folks I know.
qDon't you think the “ terrorists “, would also consider this a much greater triumph that the striking the twin towers?
aActually this entire OP is a moot attempt at an effort in futility.
qIf the answer to this last question is YES, then;
qWhy not hit the White House first???
qWouldn't this have been the most humiliating slap in the face? To see the President of the United States house on fire & destroyed from a hijacked commercial airliner broadcast all over the world? ( Jihad? )
Don't get me wrong-
aCan't help it the whole concept is wacky
qI'm not making light of any of this, just asking questions. I'm not satisfied. . .
aCheck out all the new info
qI think the terrorists were led to believe part of the plan was to strike the White House and this would eventually happen. . .
Iat is silly to suppose anything of this nature. Vie for a REINVESTIGATION
and then you may find out something substantial.
qBut I also think that they were betrayed & Flight 93 was taken out BEFORE this could happen. . .
If I was Osama, I would have spent my suprise on destroying the White House first. . .
aYeah, silly thread.
Originally posted by thedman
reply to post by talisman
As said flights hijacked minutes after takeoff - aka about half an hour
As stated before hijackers waited until planes leveled off at cruising
I take it you don't fly much - on takeoff plane does climb out to reached
assigned altitude. Sometimes very steep climb - try running up aisle
and fighting with people on a steeply pitched floor. Hijackers knew this
and planned accordingly. Wait until plane levels off, everyone relaxes
and then strike
So what are trying to get at - hijackers grab controls at take off and
hit the building right away ?
By waiting until reach cruising altitude also take advantage of height to
build up speed in a dive
Several weeks before the attacks, the actor James Woods was in the first-class section of a cross-country flight to Los Angeles. Four of his fellow-passengers were well-dressed men who appeared to be Middle Eastern and were obviously travelling together. “I watch people like a moviemaker,” Woods told me. “As in that scene in ‘Annie Hall’ “-where Woody Allen and Diane Keaton are sitting on a bench in Central Park speculating on the personal lives of passers-by. “I thought these guys were either terrorists or F.B.I. guys,” Woods went on. “The guys were in synch-dressed alike. They didn’t have a drink and were not talking to the stewardess. None of them had a carry-on or a newspaper. Nothing.
“Imagine you’re at a live-music event at a small night club and you’re standing behind the singer. Everybody is clapping, going along, enjoying the show- and there’s four guys paying no attention. What are they doing here?” Woods concluded that the men were “casing” the plane. He said that his concern led him to hang on to his cutlery after lunch. He shared his worries with a flight attendant. “I said, ‘I think this plane is going to be hijacked.’ I told her, ‘I know how serious it is to say this,’ and asked to speak to the captain.” The flight attendant, too, was concerned. The plane’s first officer came over immediately and assured Woods that he and the captain would keep the door to the cockpit locked. The remainder of the trip was bumpy but uneventful, and Woods recalled laughingly telling his agent, who asked about the flight, “Aside from the terrorists and the turbulence, it was fine.”
Although experimental use of computers in ATC had begun as early as 1956, a determined drive to apply this technology began in the 1960s. To modernize the National Airspace System, the FAA developed complex computer systems that would replace the plastic markers for tracking aircraft. Instead, controllers viewed information sent by aircraft transponders to form alphanumeric symbols on a simulated three-dimensional radar screen. By automating some routine tasks, the system allowed controllers to focus on providing separation. These capabilities were introduced into the ATC system during the ten years that began in 1965.
In January 1982, the FAA unveiled the National Airspace System (NAS) Plan. The plan called for modernized flight service stations, more advanced systems for ATC, and improvements in ground-to-air surveillance and communication. Better computers and software were developed, air route traffic control centers were consolidated, and the number of flight service stations reduced.
The FAA recognized the need for further modernization of air traffic control, and in July 1988, selected IBM to develop the new multi-billion-dollar Advanced Automation System (AAS) for the Nation's en route ATC centers. AAS would include controller workstations, called "sector suites," that would incorporate new display, communications and processing capabilities.
In December 1993, the FAA reviewed its order for the planned AAS. IBM was far behind schedule and had major cost overruns. In 1994 the FAA simplified its needs and picked new contractors. The revised modernization program continued under various project names. Some elements met further delays.
In 1999, controllers began their first use of an early version of the Standard Terminal Automation Replacement System, which included new displays and capabilities for approach control facilities. During the following year, FAA completed deployment of the Display System Replacement, providing more efficient workstations for en route controllers.