Science Figuring out what happens to us when we die

Originally posted by Mitzella
Science tells us that energy can not be created or destroyed it can only change forms. It seems logical to me to assume that since the most basic level of our being is made up of pure energy and science says energy can not be destroyed that we do indeed survive physical death.

I was about to post the very same thing until I read your post.

This is indeed a fact that is often over looked or not even considered by those that claim there is no evidence for life after death.

Sauron,

Thank you for the acknowledgement on finding the Veritas link.

For those not aware of what is being done at the University of Arizona Veritas research program, they have conducted triple blind peer reviewed studies that has provided substantial and solid evidence of consciousness surviving death.





[edit on 14-7-2007 by etshrtslr]

Originally posted by MajorMalfunction
They reproduced the NDE with experiments with ketamine.

Horrible drug by the way, and not to be recommended in any way shape or form. I know of one death of a person while engaged in "recreational" use of Ketamine, and have heard about a few more probable close encounters.

An interesting website concerned with the survival of bodily death is The Campaign for Philosophical Freedom.

I personally think that there is life after, but if there isn't, it really doesn't matter because in that case... we won't know that we ever existed at all.

As far as science ever having a conclusive answer, I seriously doubt it.

Originally posted by SpeakerofTruth
I personally think that there is life after, but if there isn't, it really doesn't matter because in that case... we won't know that we ever existed at all.

As far as science ever having a conclusive answer, I seriously doubt it.

Well that is the main thing really, if there isn't anything, then it really won't matter.

And as to science having an answer, well, last time I checked they hadn't got a completely consistent theory of Gravity.

Lol, science is trying to figure out what happens to us when we die.
They should get a bunch of volunteers and experiment.

Alright people, when you die you're just dead ok, nothing else happens...

The reason why lots of people believe in stuff like afterlife or reincarnation is because they just can't accept the fact that life has to end once.

As for near-death experiences, I think it's just a state in wich your mind goes right before you die.

Originally posted by NoSuchAgency
Alright people, when you die you're just dead ok, nothing else happens...

The reason why lots of people believe in stuff like afterlife or reincarnation is because they just can't accept the fact that life has to end once.

Thanks for your insightful thought provoking analysis.

Why dont you actually read some of the research that is being conducted at the University level that proves otherwise to your beliefs?

In case you missed the few links that have been posted on the ongoing scientific studies being conducted and just in case you have not bothered to read them I will help you out and post them again.

veritas.arizona.edu...

www.healthsystem.virginia.edu...

www.thescoleexperiment.com...

And for this last link, its a conglomeration of studies conducted around the world and they are offering $1 million dollars to anyone that can prove the evidence is fraudulent.

So if you know for a fact the after life does not exist prove it and go collect your $1 million dollars.

www.victorzammit.com...



[edit on 14-7-2007 by etshrtslr]

NoSuchAgency,

I'm very interested in reading the supporting evidence for your claim. It must be very strong. You do have some right? ...other wise such a blanket statement might be considered by some to be rather embarrassing.

Mitzella

One of the things that happens when you die, barring perhaps beheading or electrocution, is a little gland in your brain spurts out a chemical called '___' as well as a potentiating MAOI. Death is intimately linked with what we call the psychedelic experience...
www.abovetopsecret.com...

I've read up a lot on '___' and what happens in near death experience but this doesn't verify 100% what happens to us when we die.

Maybe this concept is something unreachable even for science

Originally posted by twitchy
In short, the Brain is the center of the consciousness, and it is electrochemical processes which the brain functions upon, so yes, neurochemistry is the root of our thought process, I hardly see any other way of it.
www.abovetopsecret.com...

If you can provide definitive proof of that statement I would love to see it.

Your analysis in your other thread is only addressing the effects on consciousness and not the cause.

Quantum physics and quantum entanglement provide a much different answer for consciousness than a chemical or electrochemical process.

www.quantumconsciousness.org...

www.deanradin.com...

en.wikipedia.org...

home.earthlink.net...

www.newdualism.org...












[edit on 14-7-2007 by etshrtslr]

Here's my definition of dead.

Dead is when you rot.

Anything less is not dead.

If you can say, "I was dead," you weren't dead.

Someone just thought you were dead.

You can't think that you are dead or were dead, because dead people can't think.

I think that should clarify the issue.

As far as the spirit is concerned, so far as I know, this is beyond empiricism.

I believe there is life after death, but there are reasons for both. Worry about death while your living, and worry about death while your sleaping, on ketamine, or floating out of your body. I think there is no life or death, personally we just are i guess. When there is that fine line of darkness when we die, we are just at a point between a and b. Either that or no one is right, and no one is wrong. But how can that be?

Originally posted by etshrtslr
Quantum physics and quantum entanglement provide a much different answer for consciousness than a chemical or electrochemical process.

I have no doubt of that. Quantum Physics is fun to say and it sounds and looks real impressive up there on a shiny blackboard, but sadly it doesn't explain jack diddly in the realm of human consciousness. You show me one theorum, or a single formula to explain laughter, love, or the human need to paint, dance, or sing and I'll kiss your quantum butt. There's your quantum leap, right into the unchartered territories of the profound introspection that can only come from the realization and the fruition of your own mortality and inner experiences of the world around you.
I really fail to see that quantum physics is even relevant to the discussion, except to perhaps explain the bioelectrical energy loss of the death experience, but hey gee it was really impressive to see you use it.

If you read the context of that thread in its entirety, I am therein assuming, that it's the interraction of that electrochemical process in the magnetic and electromagnetic fields which make up our consciouness, a chemistry which is based on Indole related alkaloids. That's the science of it, but to really understand what death is, I don't think you're going to figure it out on a calculator, or read it in a textbook. You see, science tends to ignore the fact that there is something inherently supernatural in the fact that we exsist at all, let alone to be conscious and aware of that exsistance, to be able to question it and throw speculations at it. I think, therefore I am, puts a big freaking hole in the entirety of your linear mathematics. All our numbers and straight lines and formulae can not explain so much as the will and whims of a lowly piss ant, or the laughter of a playing child. All it does ultimately is count money and measure things. Because of this terrible linear predisposition that science keeps choking on, we can't even mathematically explain a curved line my friend.

Hmmm Twitchy, you seem to be pretty passionate about your views on quantum physics. I would encourage you to read “The Dancing Wu Li Masters” by Gary Zukoff. It's a great book about quantum mechanics written in easy to understand language. (Mind you, I'm not trying to infer that I think you need something easy to understand, I'm just saying it's a nice read.) Anyway, one thing the book touches on is that quantum physics isn't all about measuring things as you've stated, in fact it specifically states that some things cannot be measured, at least not if we're looking directly at them.

Yes chemical processes are one way of putting the brain in a receptive state for experiencing other dimensions or spectrums but it's not the only way. Many have mastered the ability to do this without the use of mind altering chemicals. So, just as you can choose to take either a train or a bus to New Jersey, chemical processes are just one way of getting you where you want to go. Let's not mix the means of transportation with the destination itself.

You say to show you one theorem to explain the human need to dance or the will and whims of a lowly pissant. In my understanding of quantum physics, on a subatomic level, the dancer and the dance are one and the same and the will and whims of that pissant are in fact the very things that shape reality. The more I learn about quantum physics the more it reenforces my spiritual beliefs.

Read the book and take another look at it with an open mind. You may find there's more there to support your beliefs than you think.

Originally posted by MajorMalfunction
They reproduced the NDE with experiments with ketamine.

To some people that would confirm life after death.

To me and to most scientists, that confirms that NDEs are simply a chemical reaction in the brain upon dying, an attempt to ease the fear of knowing you're going. Once the NDE stops, you're gone, and I'm not prepared to think that we end up going somewhere else.

Who confirmed it? Did the person who wrote the report take Ketamine himself? Did he also have a NDE? I highly doubt it.

Every civilization that has come and gone on the planet has made mention of life after death, or to the effect insomuch that something mystical and spiritual happens. I find it very hard to disregard all that past knowledge as mumbo jumbo. You could say the same for God, that God doesn't exist because there is no evidence to support the fact that God exists, yet 99% of people on the planet believe in some form of higher energy greater than themselves. Would you say that 99% of us are crazy? Or would it be more logical to say that whatever might exist in the unknown realm is not yet known to us? Our human brain serves the purpose of getting us from point A to point B in this 3-dimensional realm. It is a finite organism incapable of infinite understanding. When we die, perhaps our multi-dimensional mind/soul/energy/whatever you wish to call it may be capable of tapping into that higher consciousness. When we die perhaps we experience universal truth. But as humans, to understand all universal truth would prove to be futile as it would distract us from doing what most carbon-based lifeforms do: reproduce and evolve to suit our environment. Once we master this 3-dimensional existance, we will shed our need for a biological shell and transcend to a different dimension. Perhaps that is what happens when we die. Shedding our fear of death is the only way we can truly be free.

[edit on 7/15/2007 by pjslug]

Originally posted by TrappedSoul
Watch this and you'll understand that people are experiencing things even when their brain doesn't function:

Google Video Link

This is what I believe:
When you're inside a car that doesn't mean that YOU'RE THE CAR, and the same rules applies to our body, I'm not a human; I'm a soul inside a human.

Your analogy doesn't work here. A car is not the same as a body. For one thing, the body is alive and has a whole host of processes going on within it. As for your soul/consciousness, I guess it is axiomatic that it itself is alive.

The phrase "scientific fact" is sometimes used to replace "truth." However, they are not synonyms. Science is entirely based on the scientific method; you make hypotheses based on the evidence, and evaluate those hypotheses based on the new evidence. If evidence comes along which disproves them, you make new, better hypotheses. That is the scientific method. The "law" of conservation of energy is scientific fact, but it is in no way TRUTH. It is a hypothesis, nothing more, that is based on every examination of energy systems to date. If memory serves, the existence of the atom is still just a theory, and our hypotheses and conjectures surrounding everything to do with the atom are thus far entirely accordant with the experimental evidence, but this does not say that the next piece of evidence will not force us to develop a new hypothesis which matches both sets, and thus our "scientific fact" has changed.

For all we know, all of our theories could be completely wrong and just seem correct by coincidence.

Deductive reasoning always was better than inductive reasoning

Originally posted by apex

And as to science having an answer, well, last time I checked they hadn't got a completely consistent theory of Gravity.

Or much of anything else as far as I can tell. Science is simply a tool, nothing less, nothing more.

Originally posted by SpeakerofTruth
Science is simply a tool, nothing less, nothing more.

I prefer to think of science as a method by which knowledge is sought through research and experimentation, while controlling for variables and bias.

I don't know if scientifically we will ever have conclusive evidence of the afterlife. I definitely think it is a good possibility sometime in the future.

I had a NDE when I was 15. I was in the hospital getting treated for a brain tumor. I didn't know then what a NDE or OBE was really. I thought I was dreaming. It definitely wasn't just a dream, because my heart stopped for several minutes. I won't go into it, but it's a funny story. Nothing like floating above your seemingly sleeping person and seeing a bunch nurses running into your room with a crash cart. My last thought before coming to without the crash cart's help, "It's not that bad."

So, I am 100% sure there is an afterlife. Maybe one day there will be one day a machine that would allows people to astrally project and see the other realms/dimensions for themselves with no effort or training. That would be a useful machine. I want to be alive when that comes out.