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Originally posted by Midav
Didn't take this thread long to be derailed.
You have to remember one thing, Xtatik... All are combat aircraft.. be they F-22, SU-27 (and family) or MiG-29/35.
If you're going to try and derail this thread, I ask you this: Do you have footage of the SU-27 (and family) and/or MiG-29/35 doing the exact same maneuvers with a full combat load? if you have, please, I beg you!!! Show it!
The F-22 as you see will be able to duplicate those same maneuvers in combat. As far as I can tell, neither the SU's nor the MiG's can do the same. Not that it matters with what weapon systems exist today. You just have to look at an opponent and he/she is dead. The slower they are, the more likely they will be shot down. However, in that field, being combat loaded and duplicating spectator "ohhh and ahhh" maneuvers, the F-22 has the edge.
Now, let's all enjoy the videos and quit the childish vs-vs threads.
Thank you.
Originally posted by Daedalus3
There are at least two instances at which one can easily extrapolate the rate of climb, which is supposed to be one of the Raptor's trade secrets.
Originally posted by Daedalus3
I'm not too sound on USAF HUD designs but isn't that layout pretty much the same as other legacy(4/4.5 gen) USAF a/c?
Originally posted by Midav
Now, let's all enjoy the videos and quit the childish vs-vs threads.
Thank you.
Originally posted by WestPoint23
The F-22 in question was not even close to climbing at full rate, it's best climb speed is mid supersonic. In that entire routine the Raptor never broke Mach 1...
The colors and graphics as well as the display set up are a little different, but otherwise it's nothing revolutionary. Remember, you still have legacy pilots flying the thing, best not to confuse them to much. And as the saying goes, if it ain't broke...
Originally posted by Daedalus3
What is mid supersonic?!
Originally posted by Daedalus3
I'm sure they wouldn't take kindly to such names!
Originally posted by danwild6
Just wondering if anyone knows whether that could be used in a real combat situation-like Top Gun when Maverick hit the airbrakes.
In addition to flying qualities evaluations to increase the speed and altitude of the F-22, testing has included flying qualities with the landing gear retracted at all speeds and altitudes (flights 1-22, 1-24, 2-2), landing gear down (flight 1-13, 2-2) and with the speed brakes extended. The F-22 has no dedicated speed brake surfaces, but uses the standard flight control surfaces for the speed brake function. In the CRUISE configuration, the ailerons deflect up, flaperons down, and rudders deflect out or the "barn door" mode. This is very effective in slowing the aircraft. In comparison, the F-22 and F-15 in side-by-side formation both deployed their speed brakes and the F-15 wound up in front. In the Power Approach or AR configurations, only the rudders are utilized for the speed brake function. (flights 1-13 (PA and landing), 1-15, 1-23 (CR), 1-29). Testing always includes formation maneuvering (flights 1-12, 1-20, 1-22) which continues to be a pleasant task with the Raptor.
Source
Using the flight control surfaces not only saved weight but in the long run ended up being quite a bit more effective than a conventional speedbrake, it's actually a great design. However, it was (talking to the engineers who designed & built the system) quite difficult to get right. Can you imagine the millions of varying parameters that must be accounted for through changing flight conditions to make the a/c maneuver the same regardless of percentage of speedbrake employed and regardless of the maneuvering envelope the a/c is in? Its a tremendous problem to solve and they did a marvelous job with it.
On to the next item - I think you'll find very few pilots employ speedbrakes in air to air combat. For example, the speedbrake in an Eagle above a certain alpha can make you more spin prone, and an Eagle was lost years ago when the pilot put out the speedbrake and forgot to retract it, entered a spin and never recovered - we lost that jet. The best speed brake you have (especially in a Raptor), is the entire jet, i.e. when you really get on the g and turn hard you can bleed your energy fast (all planes can do that - even a cessna). However, not all a/c are designed to take that so well, while you could slow a 747 pretty fast with a high g pull you might find out you have no wings at the end of the pull. Whereas fighters (most of them) are designed to handle those load factors. Therefore, in an F-22 if I want to rapidly slow down all I have to do is pull the power and apply max g and I can bleed the energy (speed) at a pheonmenal rate. And for fighters thats somewhat airspeed dependent, the faster I am the longer it takes to bleed energy even at the highest possible g, if slow, you can hit max g and slow down fast as you won't exceed the design load limit on the a/c. Bottom line is that the aircraft itself is a far more potent speedbrake than any flight control surface / speedbrake engineers could ever design on a jet. Most of the time speedbrake is used in admin types of situations, slow down in the pattern, in formation, etc. (Possibly during airshows to provide 'smoke on' for the Raptor with vortices)....