[HOAX] Isaac CARET - Drones [HOAX]

wow, talk about bringing a thread back from the dead...I thought this was gone along time ago.

reply to post by Siddharta


Complain? I should say not, my good fellow...

The clip has magic. And it reminds us all, collectively, and individually, that we are everything.

Does it not?

Carry on! And keep looking up...

Originally posted by Outrageo
reply to post by Siddharta

 

Complain? I should say not, my good fellow...

The clip has magic. And it reminds us all, collectively, and individually, that we are everything.

Does it not?

Carry on! And keep looking up...

@OR I thought we were One! Great to Read you Outrageo ..Don't worry I am following Glenn Greenwalds example..I have thousands of documents just waiting for release But being a man of compassion seeing the curse of the drone and the Snowden affect already working their magic on some of these people .well..I couldn't bring myself to do it....yet.

@ Zen Hiiiiiiiiii...Truth be told what we all did in this was great preparation for everything that came after.. Not many may come pre packaged with an international team of cheerleaders, Djs, Vjs, Bands, radio , TV support and two PIs. and give or take a few gomers. "I'm freaked out!

Don't be strangers keep posting now and then because we aren't going anywhere too far...




Cheers
Sys

Wow.

This is an old thread.

Can we maybe take this out of the hoax bin just because we know drones are real?

I wonder if in todays light this would still be considered a hoax?
seems plausible today somehow

a reply to: FinalCountdown

LOL what a way to bring back an old thread of 7 years.

But anyway can you elaborate more?

Thanks.

a reply to: Deaf Alien

I think the meaning is: drones are ubiquitous today, unlike when this bugaboo hit the ATS-waves years ago.

The corollary is implied that the ISAAC drone was a precursor of sorts to today's drones.

Perhaps - But I'm sticking with the Alienware meme as a viral marketing ploy as the the most viable explanation. It would be great if we could get someone on the inside to admit it - but that would defeat the purpose, would it not?

ive mangaged to read about 45 pages of this.... the reason i came here... was i noticed the drawings on
another site, i wasnt here 7 years ago when caret happend, plus ive never heard of it before back then, so my interest was raised immediatly, the reason im posting now, i have a new theory, and a big clue about the symbols, i really believe i understand one peace of it now, after i stared investigating drones myself i came up with a new way i think, this gave me
the idea about the symbols. something "clicked" in me. i really would love a copy of the origninal site if some1 still has it, im in no doubt all is real, even the CGI part is totally understandable nowadays, if you want a model, you need 3e softare to "print" it. this technology was not realy known 7 years or longer ago.. the entire design is nature beeing controlled with a much better
understanding than we currently as humanity together have. i will try to make my new findings in a youtube video if i can.
i really wish to let all of you see what i see after it "clicked"in me. again i would apreciate to read isaac his story completly for myself beginning to ending. is there some 1 left with this info. ive managed to find 2 pdf files and some pictures of the schematics on google.

ive tried to explain my idea about the symbols in a youtube video i think they are a function aerodynamicly in all directions, 3d object plus moving thrue time is 4d, or omni directional if you put it under a disc-shape. the symbols apear to be real functions, i have so far no discovered all of the meanings of coarse but they describe aerodynamics, or heat and cold flows deliberetly used to counter falling, they make it harder to fall for a shape, in every single ways they use the shape of the entire craft to safe energy wich goes up and has lift, if the craft moves left it opens a hatch and catches like a balloon full of air like a spring, and the resistance is a super brake, now they have a way for supercooling super compressed hot air. if you release super complressed air from a nano small hole, its probably super cold after compression. the entire ship fights against falling, and uses the captured falling energy for sideways movement, the designs are or so beatifully naturally, the carot is real, and scale does not matter for these drawings as long as your battery source can make things hot or cool long enough. the mentioned website here somewhere was VERY interesting, the seem to be connected, the have technology to DO exactly the things i described here. make use of a hot air stream, make it travel aas long as possible everty chcnce you get to increase the influence time for it to "lift" if you design it so the short way is cool and smooth and the long way is hot and ruff and creating resistance heat then by design of the ship you use multiple forces like mister isaac said to overcome, the craft hast a FLAT bottom, super fall resisting, and a hot air pocket inside, i think they have water in those pipes between parts of the tail, make it travel long inside a part then short to the next compartment, maximixe heat time inside box like a baloon helping you to lift, the more you stop the fall, the less you need energy to lift. better spent energy of heat.

heres my two videos wich gave me the ideas.

www.youtube.com...

www.youtube.com...

i SO can see how this can be done.

by the way YES part of the video WAS cgi.. the had earlier 3d pringin machines... so they needed 3d models to print the parts.... the thinght that was flying was there... flying.... we today can build a 3d model easy, and render, OR have it print a part.... they are "ahead" remember.... egyptians even knew... they tried telling us. ive seen a video with objects found at a professors house, they seem very real to me. egytians knew many things before us but i dont want to dwell. i understand i need to proof things i will continue to make new videos over the time comming. no interests anywhere for me btw i promise.

added some hand drawing, but realisations keep comming once the click has been made, i cant stop wanting to tell you guys all ive realised so far after my "click"

dl.dropboxusercontent.com...

a reply to: dennisarends

This is absolutely fascinating, thank you for sharing your work and theories. . . .I have been intrigued by this case for years, although I don't have a scientific backgound. I half suspect that the whole matter is a code we need to crack which could lead to the awakening of some as yet unknown dimensional awareness in the human brain/mind. The fact that CGI is involved does not make it any less valid, in my humble and unscientific opinion. I hope you get some responses from open minded, scientifically trained members with more to offer than I.

a reply to: dennisarends

This is absolutely fascinating, thank you for sharing your work and theories. . . .I have been intrigued by this case for years, although I don't have a scientific backgound. I half suspect that the whole matter is a code we need to crack which could lead to the awakening of some as yet unknown dimensional awareness in the human brain/mind. The fact that CGI is involved does not make it any less valid, in my humble and unscientific opinion. I hope you get some responses from open minded, scientifically trained members with more to offer than I.

a reply to: dennisarends

The fact that this thread has gone over 400 pages and is considered a hoax by this sight says more about this sight than the thread itself...

I have studied CARET and there is more here than just a hoax but whatever...ATS is the final word for many and that is a SHAME...

thank you guys i had not expected this open minded reaction from people here, some have tried so HARD to dub this thing a HOAX its incredible..... i have seen so many new insights lately after some things clicked, i can see so many things now its crazy, everythings starts to fall together for me... i havnt had time to investigate further while its the best thing ever for me hahah my mind is driving over hours just to make new youtube videos about insights but i have a fulltime job aswell thats why i really hope for some input on my ideas aswell, i have so many things in these documents that others have never even dreamed about, i am actually working on a suit now for parachustist, where i hope to build in the ani grav properties of these formulas, if i can make sort of wings for an arm, print them 3d and the wings resist falling, then less energy is needed to stay " up" the caret symbols word 6 dimensionally, actually they work omnidirectionally, but you cant make drawing plans for that. the caret files are documentation and plans for building a model DUH, the video of the metal peace flying is REAL build of a MODEL in a 3d rendering program... they could already print 3d object back then, i wish i could contact all the people from the drone team again, they were building a model, i think i can make it fly much better now that i understand alot of new principles. im working ahead and everything i discover i give away for free, we are TEAM humanity guys, please help me out by looking at the videos' dont let ANYONE tell you this is fake, it does not get any realer than this AND if this is thrue a flying disc is not that big of a leap. the Sybols have a REAL meaning, AND the reason there is no scale, is the AIR streams work on ANY scale, small drone, big drone, disc, even bigger the principles the eye of horus teaches us work on ANY scale, as long as the power source can do the initial lifting, the rest is just stopping the fall, make it as hard as possible to fall, and even RE use the energy you can get for FREE when you fall, and you fill up a balloon under pressure, you can then release this pressure from a different connection point, making use, of your fall wich you will do anyways, wh not re use that power, i have found out how to do this from an egyptian drawing...
all ancient symbols wait sorry not all, many ancient symbols show us about PRESSURE and heat differences, they show AIR flows. hope you guys can see what i see, and thank you so much for your kind words, i am losing my mind aswell a little after realising things are so much different than we are lead to believe, buisiness doe NOT have a reason to HELP the rest, if a company discovers what i just did they would not TELL, they would PATENT and keep the THRUE workings a secret so they can use this knowledge as it is power in itself. science has NO incentive to help humanity,
please find my idea on light aswell in my papers, light speed is NOT the maximum speed of matter in the universe, only on EARTH is this speed the max speed possible, due to resistance in AIR in our atmosphere. thank you for reading, not enough time to work out all my ideas lol they keep us busy on the job,... so we dont have time for anything else like thinking for ourselves, ive stopped watching TV for 10 years, it is paying off BIGTIME in karma businesses should stop nmurdering eachother, why not hire 1 R&D building, and shre the knowledge that comes out, make your on producs based on that, no competition, dont drag eachother down, work together as team humanity. save alot, now we need to do research 10 times the same, use alot of resources of earth, 1 finds the solution, the other 9 die in poverty, as they cant reclaim their lost balance. i say, we can all 10 benefit togher, no fighting, sharing.

one final note, this dicussion has been watered down so much by " adding" so much NON value, people thinking they are more important than getting to the truth that its super hard for a real investigator or anyone really, i have to wade thrue 400+pages of closed minded peoples nonsense... i cant even read the original acompanied story of mister isaac, wich is a hero for telling us. id really love a compilation of this topic, with all the real information we have mustered up together. all the non believers, move along please dont mess this topic up any more than needed, i cant start topics myself otherwise i would have thought this finding warranted a complete new look at all the files presented to us, i am still working on the symbols meaning, i only found out about 1 string because i started thinking how I myself would build a drone, then i saw the thrue meaning of the symbols as they hold the correct answers for solutions i needed. it fits perfectly.


and thanks again for believing in my answer as a possibility, i need believers people around me in real life think im starting to go crazy, because its getting more hard to understand me every time im gratefull for all kind words so far, they keep me sain and willing to think about this problem more.

originally posted by: kiro8lak
a reply to: dennisarends

This is absolutely fascinating, thank you for sharing your work and theories. . . .I have been intrigued by this case for years, although I don't have a scientific backgound. I half suspect that the whole matter is a code we need to crack which could lead to the awakening of some as yet unknown dimensional awareness in the human brain/mind. The fact that CGI is involved does not make it any less valid, in my humble and unscientific opinion. I hope you get some responses from open minded, scientifically trained members with more to offer than I.

you are indeed correct, WE today print " things" with a 3d printer, from a MODEL ourselves, im no professor, but you can be amazed what you can learn if willing from wikipedia. ive been doing my own researches for years, learning scientific principles along the way, learning where science becomes fiction. this line is blurry for people outside of the research teams. the symbols are 100% a real language, with REAL meaning, i can even think how the letters could function.
if i take a letter out of a slab of metal, the metal gets thinner in the place where the letter was, if the letter is a SHAPE, it could guide a flow of matter, warmth heat.. you name it, the thinner peace of metal where the letter was will let thrue more warmth or heat, if the letter is shaped to guide the flow, it has a real usage. simple. i can see this letter glow more even as the entire slab of metal would heat, the heat would burst thrue the letter first. beautifull.
this trhread is NO hoax, no one can really detract anything from what isaac gave us, i dont see how this was disproven myself. the company steorn or something that was mentioned somewhere is SUPER intressting, THEY make exactly the parts one would NEED for the 8 year old drone, and i think they have a bigger part in this thing. they make specialty parts, wich i could use in the design for this drone. stay skeptical, but dont be afraind to entertain and later discard an idea yourself. since i dare to dream, and dare to think big, as big as i can, only now am i seeing real truthes.
ive started allowing myself to think big, nothing is to crazy, then see what sticks, if other things start to fit in the puzzle
after you think from a certain perspective, ( ponder about a possibility, from that point of view, you start to see more and overcome what others have told you. we all just tell each other what some one else thinks. without ever considering
if that is actually thrue or not. daily life would get real tiresome i know.



it all starts to make so much sense once you realise the following, the first traders, gathered a small fortune, passed on from father to son,
fortunes from the times of egypt have only gotten bigger, these sums of money are now so bif after many generations, WE today can NOT gather these resources in ONE lifetime, they have SO much power, the have the power of life and death, a bullet is only ten cents or less.
they can persuade a poor guy to rob someone's house and shoot the owner for say 10.000 dollars? many would do this.
there have been items found, recovered from a professors house man, i can SO imagine how Victor Grebrennikovs flying platform worked, i think i could even build one, i havent read THAT complete story either yet as it is all so much to comprehend together for one, i DO have
an understanding about the symbols on the platform of mister Grebennikov, AGAIN they have REAL meaning, and i think i know exactly what the symbols on his platform mean, it is somewhere in my research files ive added in the link aswell. it has to do with doubling over infinity, and resistance doubling, so negative over infinity, if you keep doubling powers, you keep gaining speed. victor used the beetle wings, ALSO know to egyptians back in the day, why? the farao WAS a visitor himself, teaching the people around him. the piramid is ONE gigantic system
wich allows people to live around it. think of the pyramids top as pure GOLD, would it not give of radiation at night? giving sight to all? after beeing heated up by the sun? the pyramids knew how to boil waqter for safe drinking water, they knew micro waves aswell, frequency manipulation. theyre language is also mis understood by us today, eart wind water and fire to me seem all the SAME, they talk about ONE material , with DIFFERENT desitys of matter. less thick earth.. is a fluid, is water, less thick water is air, less thick air is space.... everything is ONE, think of light. light can not burn in space, to cold, no oxygen can form there, the matter is to small grained, only under pressure of our atmosphere can atoms or molecules form and become complex enough to become a function. space has no friction, then the atmosphere has a gigantic friction creating heat, and inside there is oxygen needed to burn. now if a light bullet burns smaller material it RADIATES, it will divide until undividable, once in its smalles single form it CAN NOT radiate, therefore will remain invisible for ever. (unless we shine on it but this is super hard

i think light becomes light only inside our atmosphere where matter can burn. this means we can only measure the speed of light wich we ourselves accelerate, we can only measure light as fast as WE can throw it, this is NOT the maxium speed ot matter inside space outside of our atmosphere. the reason we can not proove faster than light travel for a disc is we only see it come... or GO if a pilot steps on the gas, and the ship "disappears" we do NOT know how long the pilot keeps his throttle open, space is big, we do not know where to look for the second point where is re appears, PROBABLY BEHIND THE MOON, if i was them. this way you can re adjust your trajectory without risking to beeing seen. starlight just like the sun light comes in STRAGHT at us. we can not meaqsure speeds of somthing comming STRAiGHT at us. we need a lead bucket outside our atmosphere that blocks light boucing off of earth, and measure the weight of particles slammin onto this plate, my guess its so hard we could get free energy from this, a plate in space, wich captures vibrations of space like a microphone, but not reproducing it as sound, just use this energy differently. otherwise we could COMPRESS space material in a cnoceiled container, would it come out EVEN cooler than space temperature? if we collect and compress space material and know the dimensions and mass of this container, we could determine the weight after we filled it with space material, my guess is this blackholes are material, and need to be added to all know material, the rest is also material, only spread super thin. so in my opinion all matter togeter we see as solids are 25% and the rest 75% is SPACE, this means space had a low pressure, lower than on earth. but we forget the 75% is ALSO mass we need to overcome in our fight againt gravity. my guess is we need a 4 to 1 ratio or actuall, a little less, 3.14 ratio of PI, is enough if you keep doubling over PI or vice verse we probably have the right percentages to overcome gravity. this is just the beginning, all i need is people who can see what i see.

edit on 1-3-2015 by dennisarends because: (no reason given)

wouw guess I was about 60 years to late, ive seen a schematic of mister H. Coanda.....
june 13, 1961.... fig.1 wouw.... its the eye of horus again exactly from the side view.
I will post it later, both pictures and my own, I think mr. Coanda had the same exact idea,
im guessing he got the idea from the eye of horus as well, its so freaking identical....

had some new realisations, about magnetism and other matters,made a new youtube video about antigravity material we could make with a 3d printer, made some new drawings, im native dutch, ive got a hole story even longer in dutch full of new realisations made possible by my breakthroughs as of lately, ill give you guys a shortened english version. otherwise google translate will probably kill alot of the original thoughts perhaps.

Quote wiki: "The issue of measurement lies at the heart of the problem of the interpretation of quantum mechanics, for which there is currently no consensus."

quote wiki:
Entropy, if considered as information (see information entropy), is measured in bits. The total quantity of bits is related to the total degrees of freedom of matter/energy.
For a given energy in a given volume, there is an upper limit to the density of information (the Bekenstein bound) about the whereabouts of all the particles which compose matter in that volume, suggesting that matter itself cannot be subdivided infinitely many times and there must be an ultimate level of fundamental particles.
As the degrees of freedom of a particle are the product of all the degrees of freedom of its sub-particles, were a particle to have infinite subdivisions into lower-level particles, then the degrees of freedom of the original particle must be infinite, violating the maximal limit of entropy density. The holographic principle thus implies that the subdivisions must stop at some level, and that the fundamental particle is a bit (1 or 0) of information.

i will share my new realisation, or idea about electro magnetism today, magnetism works on the SMALLEST particles possible,
metal is very cold so it moves these smallest particles "relatively" easy (by pressure), particles want rest (when possible they will loose energy until none is left). so cold disturbs them as it makes air flow easyly also. (smaller are easier movable still than air, wich is bigger in nature) the smallest undevideble particle can not radiate anything itself, it can not devide, this means it is so small single and tiny (almost weightless so easily movable by temperatures it does not like), it can not burn any “fuel”or “light” i think light only becomes light when invisible superfast particles streams hit our atmosphere, think about it, the sun or stars are NOT directly visible in space. a particle stream comming in with millions of miles per hour from the sun thrue non (almost) non resisting) nothingness blackness.... non resistant material for a very long time and suddenly then, impacts hard!!! on earths atmosphere it hits, suddenly it comes from cold in a very “thick” air, it heats up, and starts to burn thrue friction in present in our atmosphere, we can only measure speed of light, burning matter thrue space, Always measured WITHIN our atmosphere, never truely a vacuum( how do we know if theres not any godparticles in your vacuum if you cant find them?), the smallest single particle you can not see they do not radiate "light". again think about this, in space its to cold to “burn” there are no oxygen atoms in space, the grain is to small for complex functions from “atoms” (on earth we have a pressure wich allows more complex atom configurations to form, and with different speeds of spin) a packet of particles thats starts to burn, and give of "radiation" wich is made up of more particles together. a "fireball" needs temperature..... and oxygen.... AND matter... even if its “invisible” matter
because its to fast, or when it burns out, it has no energy left, it radiates no more, and eventually stops moving and rests somewhere...
in space...(black matter IS MATTER ALSO, it just doenst... radiate, hence.... the black darkness of dark matter..(space material is NOT weightless, there IS a super tiny pressure lower than on earth there) (all space material together weighs a total together aswell (tiny resistance, so i predict a maximum length, a bounced off particle can travel after it impacted)... and becomes space in rest itself... (non radiating single particles with the smallest mass possible, no energy, so black, cold is blue (little energy) red is hot is fast light (very hot burning, high colorbrightness or "intensity"of the burn). i think a photon is not 1 single particle but a packet of even smaller particles moving togheter in one direction, and even smaller particles wich it sheds... in all directions, hence a particle packet moving over a straight line... followed... by the burn effect wich gives us the particle wave answer, it is BOTH not OR Glimlach hope you liked it. what do you think about my theory of light? and magnetism combined?
dl.dropboxusercon......;/extra%20information%20a…
dl.dropboxusercon......;/extra%20original%20draw…
dl.dropboxusercon......;/MIJN%20ONDERZOEK%20EN%2…
hope i have inspired you alittle i want to open source ufo technology smile-emoticon i think i know some things
no body else has seen before smile-emoticon see my videos man ive decoded some ancient symbols i think. maybe its time to start a "kickstarter"project online and opensource ufo technology with the complete world.
greetings from Dennis from the netherlands.
www.youtube.com...
www.youtube.com...
www.youtube.com...
i think magnetism works on the smallest undevideble particle, because they are so small they are easily moveble by a force, a pressure, or heat and cold differences, they are even more vulreneble and moveble by heat than wind (air is more heavy than smallest undevidable, 1 single particle. the one smallest possible partice wich can not be devided, can not shed light particles, period. therefore it give off no LIGHT beeing a smallest particle possible itself. undevideble, does not burn fuel, hence a packet of particles burning, moving in the same direction, giving off a speherical formed radiation ball of particles moving from a MOVING point of origin, hence the particle wave is not OR, it is particle AND wave, they have both caristeristics, we are just not able to measure them at the same time yet.
this is why we live in an electric universe, its not electric actually, its a magnetic universe. the smallest parts react in space to heat from the sun aswell, this is why the earths magnetic fields are formed as they are. one time it is heated up and influenced, until gravity gets a hold of it and bends it inwards again. heat makes it float away from earth by pressure (solar winds) but earth fights to hold on to them (pico???)particles.
sunlight.. is actually a sped up particle stream heated by the suns energy, pressured away from the sun, then cooled by space material but matter tends to keep moving in the same direction, so even though it is super cooled, it still moves as a stream of individual invisible tiny pico particles, wich can not radiate light, until they impact earths atmoshere and create their own heat, inside our atmosphere. (occams razor comes to mind, can it all be so simple?)

Sunlight (beams of matter at a certain incomming speed) once moved thrue clouds, are less energetic, darker, less intense heated rays of matter, they burn less intense and thus create a contract between the two on the border of the cloud, water molecules themselves just COOL the burning packets moving in a stream into the ground. the must be stopped somewhere in the ground, they are just collected within all the bigger masses. they becoe, earth... we pack on more and more matter over the yearts, iron compresses.... we get bigger.... earth CAN become a sun itself, think about it, more and more compressed heavier metals, more pressure beacause of more matter over time we gain, there will be a point we become a sun. a sun will explode and stop lighting its "area" light must first come in from another sun, wich is very far, if indeed it CAN reach it in the time it happened, and during the timespan we live or observe this over time. a blackhole is a black burnt out sun core. the core itself still will atracks the most closest matter, it will slowly grow, into a new earth...... over time, give microbial live in a petriedish time, and a universe will start from it, but give it time. all planets are in a period or phases of its life cycle, namely the one state we can currently observe, a gas planet is about to form a solid planet again, after this a sun, afer this a blackhole, after this a new earth, and so on. etcetera. i think we have to planet hop some day, it will become very hot here, almost like a judgement day i reckon.
who will be on the "life" "boats" and who will suffer.....
but its better to listen to nasa who wants a submarine in space planned for oh... in about 50 - 60 years... i hope to live this long to see them do it....

the heaven of heavens, can not contain him:
and man, can not explain him:
the pharisees could not stand him, and soon learned
they could not stop him:
Pilates could not find any fault with him:
thus the witnesses, could not agree against him:
So Herod could not kill him:
death could not handle him:
even the grave, could not hold him:

www.facebook.com...

www.facebook.com...

Ahhh... The Isaac drone breathes again...

Interesting perspective, D. A bit unorthodox perhaps, but Fresh. Intriguing. Thought-provoking. So what if it may be incorrect? It makes us contemplate (other) possibilities. It may even take us a few more diminutive steps toward the truth -as yet indeterminable.

I agree that ATS threw the wet [HOAX] blanket over this a bit prematurely. Based primarily on CGI analysis proposed by a favorite ATS-son or two. Not saying those conclusions are wrong, only that it was unfortunate that some 'Amigos' , as elsewhere on this site, made a decision to declare it as fact rather than just another theory (however viable it may have been). The case was closed before the facts were known. Yes, it could be CGI, is likely even. The again, it just may be... what? Something else... A model craft, a meme campaign, a 'test' vehicle, a toy. And even if it was CGI - why kill the topic? Someone had a motive to create it. Why? To serve what purpose? To what end? Instead, the thread was kicked to the curb.

The consequence has been to slam the door shut on further discussion, deeper exploration of alternative ideas (such as your own) and alternative theories (some perhaps still equally as viable). Unfortunately, the label ([HOAX]) sent the thread, one of the most engaging, inclusive, fascinating in ATS history, to the proverbial dustbin.

There is, even today, as much "proof" that the drone is (was) a [HOAX] as a number of other possibilities. Yet, we thread-bearers have little to no control over deciding such fates, and so, life moves on.

You mentioned your interest in some of the originating documents, images, etc. I might suggest going beyond the 45-pages of the original thread that you said you've read through. There's more there - and links as well, some still active. Also, a search found a few archive sites that have much of the original stuff bottled up. The 'deep web', should you care to venture there, has additional archives as well. An image search also yields pathways that may guide you.

Good luck, my friends...

than you sommuch fornyoure kind words and encouragement, i am not native english so pardon my frecnh
i WILL try and follow your advice and leave a better comment as im in a hurry to get to work hehe
this investigation is not over for me, theres alot, and the model, yes they made a mdel, so what they did it in a time the normal folks had not yet had acces to these technologys like 3d printing. thank you again fornyour advise i will plough thrue some more pages soon but im irritated by the short sightedness of so manny.