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Originally posted by ShadowEyes
I'll say it again, if the government can prove their case then they need to get on with it,...for all to see. Gee, then there would be no room left for debate.
There are clear distinctions in both domestic and international law between the powers of government in times of war (“armed conflict”) and in times of peace. During war, for example, an enemy combatant (one who is taking active part in the hostilities) can (with a few exceptions) be shot on the spot, without warning and even in the absence of an imminent threat, and can be detained without charge or counsel until the end of hostilities. In peacetime, law enforcement may use lethal force only to meet an imminent threat of death or serious bodily injury, and a suspect once detained must be charged and tried. The rules are clear about this; what is not clear is how to tell the difference between war and peace.
www.forward.com...
One would think this is what they should want to do, if for no other reason than to salvage just a bit of their credibility. Especially when, even though some of you still believe everything they say, many more do not believe them.
Originally posted by jsobecky
In peacetime, law enforcement may use lethal force only to meet an imminent threat of death or serious bodily injury, and a suspect once detained must be charged and tried. The rules are clear about this; what is not clear is how to tell the difference between war and peace.
www.forward.com...
Originally posted by neformore
Newsflash. By everyone elses standards its peacetime. Terrorism has been dealt with by other nations as a criminal act. It is only the US that has decided to invade two countries under the cover of responding to "terrorism" - one as a direct result of it (Afghanistan) and one as a convinient excuse (Iraq).
Show me a formal declaration of war signed by the President and approved by congress against a nation state.
Originally posted by neformore
By everyone elses standards its peacetime.
Originally posted by FlyersFan
Anyone who thinks that this time in history is 'peacetime' has their head stuffed in the sand. Seriously. Just look around. The entire world is at war - both visible war and invisible war. We ARE in a world war. Sometimes in the shadows. Sometimes violently in the open. But it IS a world war.
There is no peace on this planet. There hasn't been in a long time. There wont' be real peace for a long time to come either.
Originally posted by neformore
Actually, no. My heads not stuffed in the sand. Its more of a case that the United States had its head very forcibly removed from the sand on the 11th September 2001, because what you define as "terrorism" isn't new, had been happening for years - some of it has been funded by your own government and sections of your society.
You can try and ignore that fact if you want, but its true.
Originally posted by deltaboy
If you head is out of the sand, then maybe you can explain why one of your citizen as a Brit would attempt to come and bomb with a shoe? Sections of our society. You seem to have a problem of your own as well, not to mention I know you have terrorism back home, and using military resources to fight against it before, so don't attempt to think terrorism as a criminal act.
Originally posted by neformore
And incidentally, ALL of the IRA terrorists that were captured were tried and jailed via the UK's criminal justice system. There were incidents where the SAS were involved in stings as a force tool, but the ultimate authority for the operation remained a civilian matter. I suggest you do your homework on the subject before you try and lecture me on it.
United Islamic Front for the Salvation of Afghanistan
The UIF was comprised of roughly five of the factions of Mujahideen fighters. Iran and Turkey considered there to be seven factions in total. These groups were:
* Islamic Party of Afghanistan - Jamiat-I Islami-yi Afghanistan - Made up of mainly Persian-speaking Tajiks, led by Burhanuddin Rabbani. In later years as the capital was lost and the situation was largely military, Rabbani had little influence compared to Defence Ministers Ahmed Shah Massoud and Mohammed Fahim, who were also members of the Party.
* Islamic Unity Party of Afghanistan - Hizb-I Wahdat-I Islami-yi Afghanistan - Made up of Shia Hazaras, once led by the martyred Abdul Ali Mazari and later by Mohammed Mohaqiq and Karim Khalili, supported by Iran
* National Islamic Movement of Afghanistan - Junbish-I Milli-yi Afghanistan - Made up of Uzbeks and former communists, led by Abdul Rashid Dostum, supported by Turkey
* Islamic Movement of Afghanistan - Harakat-i-Islami-yi Afghanistan - Shia, led by Ayatollah Muhammad Asif Muhsini
* Islamic Union for the Liberation of Afghanistan - Ittihad-I Islami Bara-yi Azadi - Pashtun, led by Abdul Rasul Sayyaf
Many members, including much of the leadership were ethnic Tajiks, Uzbeks and Hazara - ethnic minorities in Afghanistan. Remnants of the former Soviet-backed communist government also made up a subsantial portion of the Northern Alliance.
Report on Guantanamo Detainees
1. Fifty-five percent (55%) of the detainees are not determined to have committed any hostile acts against the United States or its coalition allies.
2. Only 8% of the detainees were characterized as al Qaeda fighters. Of the remaining detainees, 40% have no definitive connection with al Qaeda at all and 18% are have no definitive affiliation with either al Qaeda or the Taliban.
3. The Government has detained numerous persons based on mere affiliations with a large number of groups that in fact, are not on the Department of Homeland Security terrorist watchlist. Moreover, the nexus between such a detainee and such organizations varies considerably. Eight percent are detained because they are deemed “fighters for;” 30% considered “members of;” a large majority – 60% -- are detained merely because they are “associated with” a group or groups the Government asserts are terrorist organizations. For 2% of the prisoners their nexus to any terrorist group is unidentified.
4. Only 5% of the detainees were captured by United States forces. 86% of the detainees were arrested by either Pakistan or the Northern Alliance and turned over to United States custody.
This 86% of the detainees captured by Pakistan or the Northern Alliance were handed over to the United States at a time in which the United States offered large bounties for capture of suspected enemies.
5. Finally, the population of persons deemed not to be enemy combatants – mostly Uighers – are in fact accused of more serious allegations than a great many persons still deemed to be enemy combatants.
Originally posted by jungle lord
Collin Powell just said that they need to close that base ASAP
lets hope it creates some motivation for the American public to stand up for the constitution.
for themselves and everyone else.