The "Lost Word" and the "Foundation Stone"

Originally posted by Cug
Tamahu, I think you have your definitions mixed up.

Theurgy - Invoking God(s)

Let us not allow semantics to throw us off.

The "Gods" are: Buddhas, Angels, Neteru, Devas, Archangels, Elohim, Peaceful Deities, Wrathful Deities, etc.

All of these will assist the White Magi, or Theurgist, in the Great Work of the Father.

Originally posted by Cug
Goetia - A book, in fact it's not really "a" book but the first part of a much larger 5 part book. The other parts of the Lesser Key are Theurgical in nature.

Definition:

Goetia

Comes from an ancient word that means "howling and groaning." Goeteia is the science of practical black magic. Magic is the science of influencing nature’s phenomena (internal and external). The practitioner of goeteia uses magic to manipulate, harm, gain power, control, and feed desire/ego through consciously feeding the sensual mind.

Explanations:

"The Goetia is classical black magic, let me explain why.

"The Lesser Key of Solomon the King was a grimoire that was written in the middle ages. Originally atributed to King Solomon, there is no physical proof; I have not verified this internally or know anybody who has.

"The truth is that it was first translated by McGregor Mathers with the pictures that he actually drew of the demons. Later, Crowley decided to "one up" Mathers and do his own version with his own pictures"...

"The negative Shemhamphorash is related to the 72 antitheses of these "Names of God". They can be found in a particular grimoire that is very famous and totally negative. It is called one of the Lesser Keys of Solomon, but truly it is nothing but a book of black magic that will lead even the most experienced practitioner into the snare of the abyss.

"Also, the so-called sixth and seventh books of Moses (which were in no way written by Moses) have the negative Shemhamphorash and it's black application. Those books are nothing but handbooks of voodoo for those that are impressed by the immediate magical effects of simple black magic"...

Originally posted by Cug
BTW, Dion Fortune, and Crowley both respected each other. Dion in fact positivity reviewed one of Crowley's Books.. I'll have to dig a bit to find this reference... If you wish I will.

"She(Dion Fortune) was writing at a time when Crowley was considered a main authority on the subject, and Crowley's black activities were not so public.

"Fortune definitely knew of Crowley's state and openly said she never ever had any physical correspondence with him.

"Liber 777 is just a large, confusing book of Kabbalistic associations. She referred to it for referrence when one is applying Kabbalah to ritual magic.

"In my opinion, it was a little bit careless to refer to his book. Otherwise, her book "The Mystical Qabbalah" is wonderful and filled with wisdom. "

As I've said, see Dion Fortune's "Applied Magic" to see what she wrote about the shadowy nature of Aleister Crowley's Occult activities....




[edit on 31-5-2007 by Tamahu]

Originally posted by Tamahu
Let us not allow semantics to throw us off.

It's not semantics Tamahu, It's just if we use diffrent definitions of the same word this discussion will make no sense. As an example if we were talking cooking and I said put corn in the pot, and you used the word corn for salt (like in corned beef), whatever we were talking about would taste pretty nasty.

Definition:

...

Comes from an ancient word that means "howling and groaning." Goeteia is the science of practical black magic. Magic is the science of influencing nature’s phenomena (internal and external). The practitioner of goeteia uses magic to manipulate, harm, gain power, control, and feed desire/ego through consciously feeding the sensual mind.

Respectively you folks are the only one who use that definition. If you mentioned the word Goetia in any occult forum/list/gettogether people will assume you are talking about just that book.

"The truth is that it was first translated by McGregor Mathers with the pictures that he actually drew of the demons. Later, Crowley decided to "one up" Mathers and do his own version with his own pictures"...[/url]

I'm sitting here holding a first edition of the book right here (1904). There are no pictures of the demons. Mathers drew nothing.. the edition with Crowley's drawings was published in the 1980's from images he drew in his personal copy.

Errors like this is exactly what happens when your information is third hand.

Originally posted by Cug
BTW, Dion Fortune, and Crowley both respected each other. Dion in fact positivity reviewed one of Crowley's Books.. I'll have to dig a bit to find this reference... If you wish I will.

She(Dion Fortune) was writing at a time when Crowley was considered a main authority on the subject, and Crowley's black activities were not so public.

Again more third party untruths. Dion Fortune visited with Crowley near the end of his life when he was working on his Thoth tarot deck.

Dear 666,
Many thanks for your letter and card. I am glad you find my tabernacles pleasant. I saw designs for two of your Tarot trumps at the Atlantis Book Shop... I should be interested to know when they are published. I have, I think, most of your books, but not 'Thumbs up'.

Source: Letter from Dion Fortune to Aliester Crowley 8th January 1942

Kenneth Grant was at Crowley's house in Netherwood, Hastings in January or February 1945, when he was sent to meet Dion at the station. Dion was dying, but she was looking forward to seeing Crowley again. At the house was Frieda Harris, who was going through the rejected Tarot designs with Aleister. Grant remembers Aleister, Dion and Frieda admiring the pictures. Significantly, one of Grant's recollections of that day points to Frieda Harris' pagan connections:

Further, he says that he well remembers Dion's zest in discussing with Crowley the possibility of reviving the pagan attitudes to cosmic and elemental forces. Louis Umfraville-Wilkinson, a writer and co-literary executor with John Symonds for Aleister Crowley, was also present on that occasion.

Source: Quest for Dion Fortune by Janine Chapman

To Dion Fortune, this small tribute to her achievement and attainment in the Science of Wisdom and to her eminence as an Artist in Words. Aleister Crowley.

Source: Inscription on the copy of The book of Thoth (No.9) Crowley gave Dion Fortune

As far as her thoughts of him before then..

Nov: 16. 1932

No, I have no thought whatever of spying in connection with you, and hope that you had none in connection with my interest in A.C., for whome I have a sneaking regard. I wish one could do something for him without burning ones fingers over him.

Source: Scan of letter from Dion Fortune to Israel Regardie

Originally posted by Cug
It's not semantics Tamahu, It's just if we use diffrent definitions of the same word this discussion will make no sense. As an example if we were talking cooking and I said put corn in the pot, and you used the word corn for salt (like in corned beef), whatever we were talking about would taste pretty nasty.

No.


Theurgy is the working with the Superior Spheres(as opposed to the Klipothic spheres) of the Tree of Life.

The "Gods", Angels, Neteru, Buddhas, Devas, Elohim, etc. are all symbolic of the various Superior aspects of the Tree of Life.

So the definition I refer to is correct.

Respectively you folks are the only one who use that definition. If you mentioned the word Goetia in any occult forum/list/gettogether people will assume you are talking about just that book.

Goetia is an ancient term none-the-less, and refers to the summoning of Klipothic entities for whatever purpose.


Just as Thelema is an ancient term that precedes even Rabelais.

I'm sitting here holding a first edition of the book right here (1904). There are no pictures of the demons. Mathers drew nothing.. the edition with Crowley's drawings was published in the 1980's from images he drew in his personal copy.

Then I'll look into it more before assuming anything about the drawings.

Again more third party untruths. Dion Fortune visited with Crowley near the end of his life when he was working on his Thoth tarot deck.

Dear 666,
Many thanks for your letter and card. I am glad you find my tabernacles pleasant. I saw designs for two of your Tarot trumps at the Atlantis Book Shop... I should be interested to know when they are published. I have, I think, most of your books, but not 'Thumbs up'.

Source: Letter from Dion Fortune to Aliester Crowley 8th January 1942

Kenneth Grant was at Crowley's house in Netherwood, Hastings in January or February 1945, when he was sent to meet Dion at the station. Dion was dying, but she was looking forward to seeing Crowley again. At the house was Frieda Harris, who was going through the rejected Tarot designs with Aleister. Grant remembers Aleister, Dion and Frieda admiring the pictures. Significantly, one of Grant's recollections of that day points to Frieda Harris' pagan connections:

Further, he says that he well remembers Dion's zest in discussing with Crowley the possibility of reviving the pagan attitudes to cosmic and elemental forces. Louis Umfraville-Wilkinson, a writer and co-literary executor with John Symonds for Aleister Crowley, was also present on that occasion.

Source: Quest for Dion Fortune by Janine Chapman

To Dion Fortune, this small tribute to her achievement and attainment in the Science of Wisdom and to her eminence as an Artist in Words. Aleister Crowley.

Source: Inscription on the copy of The book of Thoth (No.9) Crowley gave Dion Fortune

As far as her thoughts of him before then..

Nov: 16. 1932

No, I have no thought whatever of spying in connection with you, and hope that you had none in connection with my interest in A.C., for whome I have a sneaking regard. I wish one could do something for him without burning ones fingers over him.

Source: Scan of letter from Dion Fortune to Israel Regardie

We can't assume right away that all of this is from reliable sources.

And what of it that might actually be from reliable sources, has to be taken in the context of when it was written.

Why?

First of all, Dion Fortune wasn't always exactly walking the Right Hand Path(she was into mediumism/channeling for a little while from what I understand), even when she wrote some of her books.


Also, we can open up "Applied Magic" and see for ourselves what she wrote about A. Crowley's dealings.

And: She was a definite advocate of Chastity, as all members of the White Lodge are.


There is obviously no Chastity involved with the rituals that Aleister Crowley taught.

Only Black Magicians suggest the "Tantric" spilling of the semen.


Those who study and live the teachings of the Sacred Order of Tibet, the Kalki Kings of Shambhala, Universal White Brotherhood, etc. will never recommend the "Tantric" spilling of the semen.

This is not only taught by Samael Aun Weor, H.H. the Dalai Lama, and Swami Sivananda; it is also taught in the writings of H.P. Blavatsky, Manly P. Hall, Arnold Krumm Heller, and Dion Fortune.

All the world's Religious scriptures confirm that Chastity is the only way to God.


Just because Dion Fortune and Aleister Crowley may have been on friendly terms, doesn't mean that they agreed on specific essential Spiritual matters.




[edit on 31-5-2007 by Tamahu]

We can argue about Occult politics until the day we physically die(which could be anytime) and achieve nothing, or we can learn to Consciously enter the Astral Plane and investigate these things Internally.


Not that we shouldn't study physical books at all.

As mentioned earlier: A solid intellectual culture is useful.



However, the fact is that:

Many schools exist. All of them are necessary. All of them serve to help the human being, but it is good to warn that no theory can engender the internal bodies. We have never seen anyone born from any theory. We have not met yet the first human being who is born of theories.

There are very respectable and venerable Schools. These institutions have their courses of instructions and their degrees. Some of them also have rituals of initiation.


However, in the superior worlds the degrees and initiations from these schools are useless. The Masters of the White Lodge are not interested in the degrees and Hierarchies of the Physical world. They are only interested in the Kundalini.

They examine and measure the spinal medulla. If the candidate has not yet raised the serpent, he is for them simply an ordinary being, like any other, even though he may occupy some high position in the physical world, or be a venerable person or some supreme Hierarch in his school or lodge.

If the Kundalini has risen three vertebrae he is considered by the Masters to be an Initiate of the Third Degree, and if only one vertebra, an Initiate of the First Degree. Thus, the Masters are only interested in the Kundalini.


Indeed those ones who abandon everything in order to work in their cave with their Eagle and their Serpent are very few. This is something for heroes, and present humanity does not abandon its lodges and schools to remain alone with its Eagle and its Serpent.

The students of all organizations are not even loyal to their schools. They live flitting from lodge to lodge, from school to school. Thus, this is how they supposedly want to achieve profound self-realization.

We feel infinite pain when we notice these capricious brethren. Many of them practice marvelous exercises. Certainly there are many good practices in all schools.

The practices of Yogananda, Vivekananda, Ramacharaka, etc., etc., are admirable. Students practice them with very good intentions. These are very sincere students. We value greatly all those students and all those schools. Nonetheless, we feel great and irremediable pain for they who, with such yearning seek for their final liberation.

We know that they must engender their internal vehicles. We know they must practice Sexual Magic. We know that only with Sexual Magic will they be able to awaken their Sacred Fire and engender their internal vehicles to incarnate their Soul. We know this through our own experience. Nonetheless, what can we do to convince them? We, the Brethren suffer greatly... and without remedy...

In the former Earth-Moon millions of human beings evolved. However, from all of those millions, only few hundreds elevated themselves to the Angelic State. The great majority of human beings were lost. The great majority sank themselves into the Abyss. Many are called and few are chosen.

If we observe Nature, we see that not all seeds germinate. Millions of seeds are lost, and millions of creatures perish daily.

A sad truth it is, but it is the truth...

H.H. the Dalai Lama:

"From the viewpoint of Tantrayana, particularly the highest Yoga Tantrayana, the energy "drops" or special bliss is the source of energy to dissolve the grosser level of consciousness or the grosser level of energy. Through experience of that special bliss, there is the possibility that the grosser level will eventually dissolve. So the drops are the key factor for the bliss.

"In Tibetan Buddhism, especially if you look at the iconography of the deities with their consorts, you can see a lot of very explicit sexual symbolism which often gives the wrong impression. Actually, in this case the sexual organ is utilized, but the energy movement which is taking place is, in the end, fully controlled.


"The energy should never be let out. This energy must be controlled and eventually returned to other parts of the body. What is required for a Tantric practitioner is to develop the capacity to utilize one's faculties of bliss and the blissful experiences which are specifically generated due to the flow of regenerative fluids within one's own energy channels. It is crucial to have the ability to protect oneself from the fault of emission. It is not just a purely ordinary sexual act. And here we can see there is a kind of special connection with celibacy. Especially in the practice of the Kalachakra Tantra, this precept of protecting oneself from the emission of energy is considered to be very important.


"The Kalachakra liturature mentions three types of blissful experience: one is the blissful experience induced by the flow of energy; one is the immutable blissful experience; and one is the mutable blissful experience.

"To me, when Buddha took the celibacy vow, at that level he did not explain all the reasons behind that rule or that discipline. The complete explanation comes when we know the Tantrayana system. Perhaps that answers your question.

"So I think the answer is both Yes and No!"

This is the only way to Raise the Kundalini.


It is an exact Science, not a subjective game.




Regards

Originally posted by Tamahu
No.

No? You think using different definitions of the same word is helpful to conversations?

Theurgy is the working with the Superior Spheres(as opposed to the Klipothic spheres) of the Tree of Life.

The "Gods", Angels, Neteru, Buddhas, Devas, Elohim, etc. are all symbolic of the various Superior aspects of the Tree of Life.

So the definition I refer to is correct.

Yes for Theurgy, that has nothing to do with the Goetia

Just as Thelema is an ancient term that precedes even Rabelais.

Yep it's Greek for Will (not will power) Look it up, the correct spelling in on top of my avatar

Then I'll look into it more before assuming anything about the drawings.

Quite fair.. However it would be nice if you did the same about Crowley. We both know their are legitimate differences between our two systems.. However you seem to take as gospel any negative thing about Crowley just because you don't like him. (And I am not saying it's wrong for you not to like him)

We can't assume right away that all of this is from reliable sources.

And you do assume the 3rd party quotes you posted are reliable sources?

Just because Dion Fortune and Aleister Crowley may have been on friendly terms, doesn't mean that they agreed on specific essential Spiritual matters.

Do you see what you said here?


BTW Arnold Krumm Heller was also on friendly terms with Crowley. He also had Crowley's picture posted in the FRA temples as an example of other "masters".

We can argue about Occult politics until the day we physically die(which could be anytime) and achieve nothing, or we can learn to Consciously enter the Astral Plane and investigate these things Internally.

Been doing that for 20 years.


I have a question for you, Do you know the reason for dealing with "demons"? (An ancient term that has nothing to do with good or evil)

It's expressing your control over "evil" if you ignore evil, or have no control over it.. it will control you.

Lets say you had a bad habit.. Say you tend to be tardy... If you don't take control over that "demon"** you will suffer for it. (get fired)


** demons are really part of the human subconscious.

Originally posted by Tamahu


All the world's Religious scriptures confirm that Chastity is the only way to God.

The religious scriptures that you speak of contain the magical formula of a dead aeon. They are of historical interest only.

Nevertheless, Crowley agreed with this assessment. See his chapter on "Chastity" in his "Little Essays Toward Truth".

Just because Dion Fortune and Aleister Crowley may have been on friendly terms, doesn't mean that they agreed on specific essential Spiritual matters.

That is almost certainly true. However, Crowley was a Magus, and Fortune was an Adeptus Minor.

I'd also like to say something about the Goetia: calling it "black magic" shows a fundamental misunderstanding of the occult forces, and I assume this erroneous viewpoint comes from SAW.

Demons don't really exist, at least not in any actual, objective sense. Such superstitions are the province of the Profane, not the Adepti. A "demon" is nothing more than an old "pagan" god caricatured by followers of Christianity. And the very word "demon" is derived from the Greek "daimon", which denoted a non-physical entity of good fortune.

The Goetic forces (I dislike the term "spirit" because it is so easily misunderstood) are actually portions of ourselves. They do not exist outside of us. When the Magician evokes a Goetic force, he is actually calling a part of his own subconscious, objectifies it, and creates it as if it were outside of himself. A psychologist would call Goetic forces "neurotic tendencies" or "subconscious hang-ups". Regardless, after the Magician has evoked the force from out of himself, he may then proceed to banish it. This operation has the same effect as years of expensive psychotherapy.



[edit on 31-5-2007 by Masonic Light]

Originally posted by Cug
No? You think using different definitions of the same word is helpful to conversations?

I'm simply saying that whether we say "Gods", "Angels", "Elohim", etc. it is related to Theurgy.

So again, the definition I've referred to is correct.

Quite fair.. However it would be nice if you did the same about Crowley. We both know their are legitimate differences between our two systems.. However you seem to take as gospel any negative thing about Crowley just because you don't like him. (And I am not saying it's wrong for you not to like him)

I don't believe everysingle bad thing they say about him.

Much of it is true though, as we can't deny that he taught Black Magic.




[quoteAnd you do assume the 3rd party quotes you posted are reliable sources?



You can't be totally sure where they are getting their info either.

This being the case, why do you keep saying "3rd party" sources?

Do you see what you said here?

Yes.

Two people can't be on cordial terms and disagree on important matters at the same time?

BTW Arnold Krumm Heller was also on friendly terms with Crowley. He also had Crowley's picture posted in the FRA temples as an example of other "masters".

We've discussed this, and we can't be totally sure about all the sources and timelines in regard to this either.

I have a question for you, Do you know the reason for dealing with "demons"? (An ancient term that has nothing to do with good or evil)

It's expressing your control over "evil" if you ignore evil, or have no control over it.. it will control you.

Lets say you had a bad habit.. Say you tend to be tardy... If you don't take control over that "demon"** you will suffer for it. (get fired)


** demons are really part of the human subconscious.

Originally posted by brotherforchrist
So you don't feel that there are some realms that man is just not meant to traverse?

No. I feel that we live only to learn. If that is our indeed heritage, we blaspheme life by not fulfilling our potential.

Do you not wonder if your feeling of control is merely illusionary? What governs and says that a spirit,demon,being etc HAS to listen to you?

The motto "Deus et Homo": God is Man. In other words, we are the expression of the Divine, and are One with the Divine. "Every man and every woman is a star". The Forces of Nature are also divine, and are directed by Divinity. When we locate the Divinity within ourselves, there is no limit.

Or that a magickal circle or pentacle keeps you safe from harm so long as it is not broken?

Again, we need no magic circle to be "safe". We utilize the Circle because it symbolizes Infinity, and our unity with the Infinite.

Why would a being have to follow any types of rules set forth and composed strictly by man? I can understand the theory of the strength of will and belief on your part however, the comparison seems to me to be analagous to an ant trying to tell a human what he or she must do, and believing that the human will follow ant rules because the ant believes in the ant rules, instead of the human just stepping on the ant.

Again, this is the esoteric purpose of Initiation. To the Profane, man probably is indeed an ant, and his lower self a giant. To the Adept, the opposite is true.

[edit on 31-5-2007 by Masonic Light]

Originally posted by Cug
No? You think using different definitions of the same word is helpful to conversations?

I'm simply saying that whether we say "Gods", "Devas" "Angels", "Elohim", etc. it is related to Theurgy.

So again, the definition I've referred to is correct.

Quite fair.. However it would be nice if you did the same about Crowley. We both know their are legitimate differences between our two systems.. However you seem to take as gospel any negative thing about Crowley just because you don't like him. (And I am not saying it's wrong for you not to like him)

I don't believe every single bad thing they say about him.

Much of it is true though, as we can't deny that he taught Black Magic.

And you do assume the 3rd party quotes you posted are reliable sources?

You can't be totally sure where they are getting their info either.

This being the case, why do you keep saying "3rd party" sources?

Do you see what you said here?

Yes.

Two people can't be on cordial terms and disagree on important matters at the same time?

BTW Arnold Krumm Heller was also on friendly terms with Crowley. He also had Crowley's picture posted in the FRA temples as an example of other "masters".

We've discussed this, and we can't be totally sure about all the sources, timelines, context, etc. in regard to this either.

I have a question for you, Do you know the reason for dealing with "demons"? (An ancient term that has nothing to do with good or evil)

It's expressing your control over "evil" if you ignore evil, or have no control over it.. it will control you.

Lets say you had a bad habit.. Say you tend to be tardy... If you don't take control over that "demon"** you will suffer for it. (get fired)


** demons are really part of the human subconscious.

I'm aware of this.


We have to deal with our inner demons.

That is why we seal our meditation space with Conjurations and Prayers, so that we don't have the added ego-stimulation of 'external' Klipothic dwellers.

In Gnosis we learn that when the inner Klipoth is disintigrated, the 'external' demons can no longer affect us.

Until we kill our inner demons, we must not allow outer demons to attack us.



In this context:

Unless you are truly cultivating the Knowledge of Good and Evil through the science of transmutation, how would you know if you are doing good or evil?

Only the true Theurgist can command said spirits. Rituals don't give you powers over demons, they give you appointments with them. If you think you are trickier than the real diabolical intelligences, good luck to you. Those books are pit falls with tricks.

The books themselves might have been changed according to the structure of the hierarchies of demons (because they change seats like the parliment). But the science of black magic (Goetia-the howling of the abyss) has been around for a long time.

Theurgy (the science of THEOS/DIOS-the harmony of the choir of Elohim) has always been here to combat Goetia.


The invocation of angels is not evil in any way, that is a practice of Theurgy.
Goetia is evil and black.

The question is, when you are summoning evil spirits to do good, are you sure that what you are commanding them to do is good?

The only one that can command demons is God. Is your God commanding demons or are you trying to command the demons from your own will?
Goetia is inherently negative and black magic. Yet, for your Intimate to command a demon is not Goetia. Goetic invocation is self willed demonic invocations.

Our knowledge of good and evil does not match the diabolical knowledge of say, Asmodeus. So how can we command him or even strike a fair deal?

Master Samael says that we must know the good inside the evil and the evil inside the good; so, it seems that you understand that. I just totally disagree with the methods of Goetic invocations because it is a path of failure and tricks.

Originally posted by Tamahu


Much of it is true though, as we can't deny that he taught Black Magic.\

Yes, we can.

In fact, in the New Aeon, Crowley's system is the only one, by definition, that is completely legitimate.

"Black Magic" is the invention of the imaginations of the Profane. The term is meaningless in the Halls of the Adepti.

Crowley's system, on the other hand, was the result of an actual occurence: the Equinox of the Gods. All True Magick in the current Aeon must follow its Formula. Otherwise, it's simply beating the air...or spamming threads with hundreds of meaningless pictures.

Originally posted by Tamahu

I'm simply saying that whether we say "Gods", "Devas" "Angels", "Elohim", etc. it is related to Theurgy.

So again, the definition I've referred to is correct.

You lost me What does the above have to do with calling everything related to "demons" Goetia?

The only reference I have found is from Giovanni Pico della Mirandola is this what you are talking about?

I don't believe every single bad thing they say about him.

Well that's the impression you give.

Much of it is true though, as we can't deny that he taught Black Magic.

See ML's post. and with the progression of the aeons it turn out you are now practicing Black magick. And come to think about it one of the main goals for a Thelemite (as taught by A.C.) is The Knowledge and Conversation of the Holy Guardian Angel, 100% Theurgy.

You can't be totally sure where they are getting their info either.

That's the point

This being the case, why do you keep saying "3rd party" sources?

They are not pointing to any sources.

That is why we seal our meditation space with Conjurations and Prayers, so that we don't have the added ego-stimulation of 'external' Klipothic dwellers.

In Gnosis we learn that when the inner Klipoth is disintigrated, the 'external' demons can no longer affect us.

Sounds like it's the same thing but different methods.

In this context:

www.gnosticteachings.org...
...

Who is this Isabel and why does her quote matter?

As a person who has actually (and quite often) done/do Goetic work, their comment has absolutely nothing to do with how it works, or the intentions behind it.

ML, Cug

Originally posted by Masonic Light
The religious scriptures that you speak of contain the magical formula of a dead aeon. They are of historical interest only.

Nevertheless, Crowley agreed with this assessment. See his chapter on "Chastity" in his "Little Essays Toward Truth".

This has to be understood in the proper context.

The Piscean Age(or: "Aeon of Osiris") was where all those, except for those who completed the Nine Initiations of Minor Mysteries, who walked the Right Hand Path were taught celibacy or lunar Brahmacharya(celibacy).

But it is Brahmacharya never the less, and was achieved through Pranayama, Mantras, Meditation, etc.

Celibacy(lunar Brahmacharya) means no sex and no orgasm.


And those who were ready for it received the Great Arcanum(Sexual Magic), which is the way to Solar Brahmacharya which is Chastity(which is different than celibacy).

Chastity means sex without orgasm, which is how Solar Brahmacharya(Chastity) is achieved.


Now in the Age of Aquarius(or: "Aeon of Horus"), the Great Arcanum(Solar Brahmacharya) is taught openly.


If you read carefully what I posted from H.H. the Dalai Lama, then you'll see that all this is precisely what he is implying:


The Heart of the Buddha's Path




Anyone who intentionally expells the Sexual Energy, whether in the Age of Pisces or in the Age of Aquarius, fortifies the egos that they were previously working on and/or have eliminated:

If you intentionally spill, then yes, you will most likely loose everything you worked for, the energy you use to do that will revive all the old egos within you, and even more, they will now be stronger (in the same way that heating and cooling metal over and over makes it stronger each time).

What I have learned is that you must make the maximum of effort, and when you fail, you must make an even more serious effort. You must find a way. This is a path of the triumph over terrible emotional crisis. This is the Path of the Razor's Edge.

So like I've said, the main difference between the "Aeon of Osiris" and the "Aeon of Horus" is lunar Brahmacharya(celibacy) and Solar Brahmacharya(Chastity).


Of course those who were ready for it, in the Piscean Age, were taught the Great Arcanum(which is the Path to Chastity or Solar Brahmacharya):

What about celibacy? Did not all the great spiritual teachers practice continence?

Buddha, Jesus, Krishna, Mohammad, Quetzalquatl, etc., all practiced sexual magic, yet they did so in secrecy. In the previous era, in order to be initiated into the mysteries of sexuality, one had to first purify themselves through many years of intense efforts, and only then would they be told the secret of sexual magic.

For example, a Tibetan monk who claimed that he had reached the stage of anuttarayoga tantra asked the Thirteenth Dalai Lama if he could practice with a consort; when the Dalai Lama asked for proof of his attainment, this monk took a yak's horn and tied it into a knot, therefore demonstrating his mastery over energy and matter. Only then did the Dalai Lama give his blessing for this monk to practice the Highest Yoga Tantrayana (sexual magic).

In the past everything related with sexual magic was kept in the deepest secrecy. Today this is no longer true. The times have changed. Now the mysteries of Eden (sex) are given to anyone who wishes to take advantage of them.

And:

9 - Jesus' Fifth Serpent

In ancient Egypt, those who dared to divulge the Great Arcanum were condemned to the death penalty; their heads were severed, their hearts were snatched out from their bodies and thereafter their ashes were tossed into the four winds.

In the Middle Ages, those who divulged the Great Arcanum were killed, sometimes by the poison-stained tunic of Nessus, or the dagger, or the scaffold.

Nevertheless, now we publicly deliver the Great Arcanum in order to initiate the new Aquarian Age; the Great Arcanum is sexual magic.

But according to Aleister Crowley's teachings, neither lunar Brahmacharya(celibacy) or Solar Brahmacharya(White Sexual Magic) are necessary for the Aquarian Age.

And this is why A.C. taught Black Tantra.


The Philosopher's Stone is Sex; and it must be Built upon Stone(White Tantra), not sand(fornication):

The Stone that the Builders Refused... The Head Cornerstone

Those who intentionally spill the sexual fluid can never, ever raise the fire of Kundalini.

Those who spill their semen intentionally can never ever even begin to weaken any ego--it is IMPOSSIBLE WITHOUT CHASTITY.

Those who practice adultery or casual sex do not walk the path of the Gnostic mysteries.

So when you say...:

Originally posted by Masonic Light
Crowley's system, on the other hand, was the result of an actual occurence: the Equinox of the Gods. All True Magick in the current Aeon must follow its Formula. Otherwise, it's simply beating the air...or spamming threads with hundreds of meaningless pictures.

...it is completely false.

If those methods you mention work for your purposes, then whatever.

But don't say that they can positively lead one on the Path of the Razor's Edge, because they cannot.

That is almost certainly true. However, Crowley was a Magus, and Fortune was an Adeptus Minor.

Crowley was an Adept indeed, but unfortunately converted himself into a Hanasmuss of the left hand.

Dion Fortune, as far as I'm aware, stayed on the Right Hand Path until, and after, the end of her last physical incarnation.

I'd also like to say something about the Goetia: calling it "black magic" shows a fundamental misunderstanding of the occult forces, and I assume this erroneous viewpoint comes from SAW.

See the final quote in my previous post in this thread.

Demons don't really exist, at least not in any actual, objective sense. Such superstitions are the province of the Profane, not the Adepti. A "demon" is nothing more than an old "pagan" god caricatured by followers of Christianity. And the very word "demon" is derived from the Greek "daimon", which denoted a non-physical entity of good fortune.

Demons merely exist, but only temporarily, because they have no inherent existence.

Only the Being has inherent Being(because the Being is not born nor does It die, as the Being is not dependent on dependent origination).


And I'm aware of the difference between the Daemon and a demon.

Demons of the Klipoth are fallen Human Essences(related to Tiphereth) that have allowed their egos to swallow all of their Essence 100%.

The one's who allow this to happen must enter the Second Death spoken about by Master Jesus, A.K.A. the long and painful journey through the Hell Realms of Buddhism.

I'm not making this up.

You can open the New Testament or the Buddhist Sutras and Tantras and see for yourself.


In this sense almost all of us are demons.

However, those who have at least some percentage of free Essence availible, which has not been swallowed up by the ego 100%, still have the oppertunity to eliminate their egos, and be Free.

The Goetic forces (I dislike the term "spirit" because it is so easily misunderstood) are actually portions of ourselves. They do not exist outside of us. When the Magician evokes a Goetic force, he is actually calling a part of his own subconscious, objectifies it, and creates it as if it were outside of himself. A psychologist would call Goetic forces "neurotic tendencies" or "subconscious hang-ups". Regardless, after the Magician has evoked the force from out of himself, he may then proceed to banish it. This operation has the same effect as years of expensive psychotherapy.

This is partly true.

However, it also possible for one to become a slave, through a pact, to a Klipothic dweller: i.e. become a slave to the devolving personality of the Essence of a Monad who has entered the process of the Second Death.

It is also taught that it is possible for one's Inner Monad to command Klipothic demons without becoming enslaved to them; and in this case it would not be considered Goetia; because the one who, in this case, is commanding the demons, is not trading a part of their Essence for the service(s) of said demon(s).

But for it to not be Goetia, would require the Magician to be a high level Bodhisattva, with Solar Bodies, who is beyond good and evil; and is therefore commanding said demons according to the Will of the Divinity.

For one who still has lunar bodies and egos uneliminated, would be a fool to try to command Klipothic demons.

And you can't simply "banish" a demon that you've made a pact with.

A part of your very Essence becomes the property of that devolving lunar personality, maybe even until the end of the Kalpa.

Originally posted by Masonic Light
In fact, in the New Aeon, Crowley's system is the only one, by definition, that is completely legitimate.

See above.

"Black Magic" is the invention of the imaginations of the Profane. The term is meaningless in the Halls of the Adepti.

It wasn't meaningless to the Adepts of Tibet, Manly P. Hall, Eliphas Levi, and Albert Pike.

So please stop misinforming people.

Black Magic does exist, and woe to the one who enters into it.

The Forms of Tantra - Gnosis - Practical Gnosticism

Black Tantra:

Within the perpetual snow of the millenarian Tibet, full of so many traditions, there exist diverse Black Tantric Schools.

Miserable will be the one who affiliates himself to those tenebrous schools.

It were better for him that:

"a millstone were hanged about his neck, and be cast into the sea." (Luke 17:2)

The fundamental basic objective of the Black Tantric schools is the development of the abominable Kundabuffer Organ (Tail of Satan).

White Sexual Yoga teaches that the igneous serpent of our magical powers awakens with the contact of the Solar and Lunar Atoms of the Seminal System in the Triveni, close to the coccyx in order to initiate its march inward and upward through the Medullar Canal.

[edit on 1-6-2007 by Tamahu]

Arnold Krumm-Heller taught White Sexual Magic.


See the quote from one of his books right here:


Huiracocha's Zodiacal Course(see also Samael Aun Weor's Astrotheurgy)



So Huiracocha's teachings on Sexual Magic, like Samael Aun Weor's, are White and in alignment with the original teachings of Thelema.




[edit on 1-6-2007 by Tamahu]

Originally posted by Tamahu

This has to be understood in the proper context.

The Piscean Age(or: "Aeon of Osiris")

::snip::

Now in the Age of Aquarius(or: "Aeon of Horus"),

Yes you need the proper context.. however you don't have it.

The Aeons have absolutely nothing to do with the astrological ages. There have been 9 astrological ages so far, and only 3 aeons.

Aeon of Isis (the Mother God aka goddess worship)
Aeon of Osiris (The Father God, aka the cult of the dying god)
Aeon of Horus (The Child God aka Crowned and Conquering Child)


The Aeon of Horus started when Crowley received the Book of the Law where we see the following.

II:5. Behold! the rituals of the old time are black. Let the evil ones be cast away; let the good ones be purged by the prophet! Then shall this Knowledge go aright.

Source The Book of the Law

So right there you see why the ideas and rituals of the past no longer matter.. they are Black and those who practice them are working with Black Magick.

The Stone that the Builders Refused... The Head Cornerstone

Well who is Rosencroix and why does what he said matter?

Originally posted by Masonic Light
In fact, in the New Aeon, Crowley's system is the only one, by definition, that is completely legitimate.

See above.

Ditto

Black Magic does exist, and woe to the one who enters into it.

Gee don't be so hard on yourself.

Well like you said earlyer we can argue this forever. (LOL and it would be easy for me I just have to keep posting Behold! the rituals of the old time are black after ever quote from the past adapts. )

So Huiracocha's teachings on Sexual Magic, like Samael Aun Weor's, are White and in alignment with the original teachings of Thelema.

Bull pucky. Show me just one instance of the word Thelema being used as the name of a actual religious/philosophic system prior to Crowley. Rabelais's usage of it was purely fictional.

[edit on 6/1/2007 by Cug]

To touch on a few points...

Originally posted by Cug
Who is this Isabel and why does her quote matter?

As a person who has actually (and quite often) done/do Goetic work, their comment has absolutely nothing to do with how it works, or the intentions behind it.

You're saying that followers of Samael Aun Weor practice Goetia?

Based on what?


We simply have to look at Aleister Crowley's rituals to see that he taught Black Tantra.





And about this:

Originally posted by Tamahu
Until we kill our inner demons, we must not allow outer demons to attack us.

I should have mentioned that this is unavoidable at times.

But at least we can Seal our homes during formal practice, and utilize Mantras(that are backed by Sexual Strength/Chastity) throughout the rest of the day as to strengthen our Essence and repel Klipothic vibrations.

Originally posted by Masonic Light
The Goetic forces (I dislike the term "spirit" because it is so easily misunderstood) are actually portions of ourselves. They do not exist outside of us. When the Magician evokes a Goetic force, he is actually calling a part of his own subconscious, objectifies it, and creates it as if it were outside of himself. A psychologist would call Goetic forces "neurotic tendencies" or "subconscious hang-ups". Regardless, after the Magician has evoked the force from out of himself, he may then proceed to banish it. This operation has the same effect as years of expensive psychotherapy.

The gist of what you say here, is why Samael Aun Weor taught that we must descend into the Ninth Sphere(Sexual Magic) as to comprehend our "neurotic tendencies" or "subconscious hang-ups"(egos).

But again, this descent is in no way a Goetic practice:

The descent into the Ninth Sphere was, in ancient Mysteries, the highest trial in order to acquire the supreme dignity of the Hierophant

Buddha, Hermes, Rama, Zoroaster, Krishna, Jesus, Moses had to descend into the Ninth Sphere in order to work with Fire and Water, origin of Worlds, beasts, Humans and Gods. Every authentic White Initiation begins here, in the Ninth Sphere, Sex.

We have to extract, with the help of the Power of the Holy Spirit, our Consciousness from the sub, un, and infra-conscious regions.


The 49 "demons of Yaldabaoth"




[edit on 1-6-2007 by Tamahu]

Originally posted by Cug
Yes you need the proper context.. however you don't have it.

The Aeons have absolutely nothing to do with the astrological ages. There have been 9 astrological ages so far, and only 3 aeons.

Aeon of Isis (the Mother God aka goddess worship)
Aeon of Osiris (The Father God, aka the cult of the dying god)
Aeon of Horus (The Child God aka Crowned and Conquering Child)

Well some of the attributes of Pisces and the "Aeon of Horus" are very similar.

Just as some of the attributes of Aquarius and the "Aeon of Osiris" are very similar.


But, it is my mistake, it seems.


Regardless of all that...

Chastity, no matter what Age, will always be a pre-requisite for Initiation into the White Lodge.

And I'm only concerned with the 13 Mayan Aeons, or Katuns; and the Precession of the Equinoxes.

So right there you see why the ideas and rituals of the past no longer matter.. they are Black and those who practice them are working with Black Magick.

No.

The Piscean ways of lunar Brahmacharya will, in most cases, eventually turn into Black Magic because the Initiate cannot fully eliminate, with his or her own sexual energy, what Gurdjieff called Poisoninoskirian Vibrations(an Ancient term).

Paramahamsa Yogananda is one of the very few Initiates of Minor Mysteries who avoided the Second Death without Sexual Magic(it is taught that he is(or was) waiting in Limbo as to take a new physical body, so that he can Raise the Seven Serpents with a Priestess-Wife(or Husband if he takes a female body).


You surely can't tell us that H.H. the Dalai Lama and Huiracocha are Black Magicians.

And neither is Samael Aun Weor.

Gee don't be so hard on yourself.

Yes, my personality is a black magician(albeit an unconscious one).

But through Thelema, and the help of my Inner God, my Essence Will(Insha Allah) be, from moment to moment, liberated from this state of suffering by Comprehending how I've become a black magician.

By the Grace of Christ, I've at least got the Keys in order to perform this Work, Chisel the Rough Ashlar, liberate the Essence, and therefore stop existing as a black magician.


But those who perform rituals that involve the orgasm, will never be able to Perfect their Stone.

All one can do for such unfortunate Essences, is educate them without forcing anything upon them, and pray for them according to the Law of Karma and the Will of God.

But, if they choose to keep following their mistaken path(by following their egos which are created through fornication), instead of following the Will of their Inner God, then that is of course up to them.

Well like you said earlyer we can argue this forever. (LOL and it would be easy for me I just have to keep posting Behold! the rituals of the old time are black after ever quote from the past adapts.

)

Wow.

That's very disrespectful for one to call the rituals of the pre-"Aeon of Horus" Masters "black".

Samael Aun Weor never said that the Piscean Master's rituals are black.

In fact, he wrote that the Great Arcanum is veiled in the Ancient Scriptures, as the authors of them knew and practiced it.

He simply said that certain interpretations of the Piscean ways can devolve into black magic.

The Revolution of the Dialectic

"Kalkian personalities are disrespectful, irreverant. This type of personality from these pseudo-esoteric and pseudo-occultist schools have lost not only the sense of authentic devotion and of true religiosity but also that of veneration for the ancient Patriarchs. In this manner, humanity (having been able to be directed by truly wise religions) has degenerated in its ridiculous pedantry, thus forming the Kalkian personality."

"Unquestionably, the Kalkian personalities are victims of self-deciet. They believe that they have achieved everything when indeed they have achieved nothing and what is worse is that they have lost their sense of veneration. They have forgotten the true and authentic religiosity."

- Samael Aun Weor

Bull pucky. Show me just one instance of the word Thelema being used as the name of a actual religious/philosophic system prior to Crowley. Rabelais's usage of it was purely fictional.

First of all, Rabelais, to my understanding, was not merely fictional.



Second:


Thelema an Ancient Gnostic term

But the followers of Ptolemaeus assert that (Bythus) has two spouses, which they call likewise dispositions, viz., Ennoia and Thelesis (conception and volition). For first the notion was conceived of projecting anything; next followed, as they say, the will to do so. Wherefore also these two dispositions and powers--namely, Ennoia and Thelesis--being, as it were, mingled one with the other, there ensued a projection of Monogenes and Aletheia by means of a conjugal union. And the consequence was, that visible types and images of those two dispositions of the Father came forth from the invisible (Aeons), viz., from Thelema, Nous, and from Ennoia, Aletheia. And on this account the image of the subsequently generated Thelema is (that of a) male; but (the image) of the unbegotten Ennoia is (that of a) female, since volition is, as it were, a power of conception. For conception always cherished the idea of a projection, yet was not of itself at least able to project itself, but cherished the idea (of doing so). When, however, the power of volition (would be present), then it projects the idea which had been conceived.

The conjunctions of Ennoea and Logos, and of Aphtharsia and Christ, will thus be formed; while Zoe Aionios was united to Thelema, and Nous to Prognosis. These, then, magnified the great light and Barbelos.

2. They also affirm that Autogenes was afterwards sent forth from Ennoea and Logos, to be a representation of the great light, and that he was greatly honoured, all things being rendered subject unto him. Along with him was sent forth Aletheia, and a conjunction was formed between Autogenes and Aletheia. But they declare that from the Light, which is Christ, and from Aphtharsia, four luminaries were sent forth to surround Autogenes; and again from Thelema and Zoe Aionios four other emissions took place, to wait upon these four luminaries; and these they name Charis (grace), Thelesis (will), Synesis (understanding), and Phronesis (prudence) Of these, Chaffs is connected with the great and first luminary: him they represent as Sorer (Saviour), and style Armogenes.(1) Thelesis, again, is united to the second luminary, whom they also name Raguel; Synesis to the third, whom they call David; and Phronesis to the fourth, whom they name Eleleth.

[edit on 1-6-2007 by Tamahu]

Tamahu you posted this,

The Forms of Tantra - Gnosis - Practical Gnosticism

quote: Black Tantra:

Within the perpetual snow of the millenarian Tibet, full of so many traditions, there exist diverse Black Tantric Schools.

Miserable will be the one who affiliates himself to those tenebrous schools.

It were better for him that:

"a millstone were hanged about his neck, and be cast into the sea." (Luke 17:2)

The fundamental basic objective of the Black Tantric schools is the development of the abominable Kundabuffer Organ (Tail of Satan).

White Sexual Yoga teaches that the igneous serpent of our magical powers awakens with the contact of the Solar and Lunar Atoms of the Seminal System in the Triveni, close to the coccyx in order to initiate its march inward and upward through the Medullar Canal.


-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
You are misreading what Jesus was saying in Luke 1-2 here is the compete passage

Luke 17:1-2 (New International Version)

Luke 17

Sin, Faith, Duty

1 Jesus said to his disciples: "Things that cause people to sin are bound to come, but woe to that person through whom they come.

2 It would be better for him to be thrown into the sea with a millstone tied around his neck than for him to cause one of these little ones to sin.


Jesus was stating here that through knowingly leading a fellow man into darkness, causing them to stumble, or to sin, our fate is worse for us than someone jumping into the sea with a millstone tied around his neck.

It is a warning from Christ that we should always seek truth and walk in light, encourage our fellow man,lift them up,help bear their burdens,help them to so what is the right thing in all given situations, that is a big part of why we are here.We are not meant to journey alone in life, we are meant to uplift one another, and bring others to a deep, personal, meaningful relationship with God.Likewise in this passage Christ states that one that opposes this and knowingly seeks to bring another into self destruction, sin, walking away from God will be judged harshly by god for his actions, and the judgment will be harsh.

I don't feel that it was directed so much towards a certain school/belief system/tradition so much as it was a warning and stern rebuke about doing anything whatsoever that could lead someone else down a path that is destructive to them bodily or spiritually.Kind of forcing the listener to realize and assume ultimate responsibility for his actions not only in his life, but also in the lives of others through his interactions with them.

Originally posted by Tamahu
You're saying that followers of Samael Aun Weor practice Goetia?

Based on what?

Huh, I think I lost you that time.

I'm saying I have personal experience with the Goetia, they don't and by not having practiced it they don't understand it.

Originally posted by Tamahu

Wow.

That's very disrespectful for one to call the rituals of the pre-"Aeon of Horus" Masters "black".

That's funny.. You have shown nothing but disrespect to my religion. That's not saying you have been so to me personally, shoot I like our little chats, it helps me understand things better as I try to explain things.

Thelema an Ancient Gnostic term

I never said the word was never used before. Just that it was never used to describe a religious/philosophic system before Crowley. In the quote you provided the word Thelema is not used to to describe a religious/philosophic system.

As long as I know, Samael is the last one to quote Thelema
www.gnosticteachings.org...

So you just have to be the last one to mention it to claim it

[edit on 6/2/2007 by Cug]

I was just wondering if anyone is finding this interesting?

Tamahu and I (and ML) are beating a dead horse here and it would be silly to continue if we were the only ones interested in the subject matter.

I find it immensely interesting, but I feel that I learn more off of Cug,Masonic Light, and Tamahu in a few threads than I learn off of reading 75% of the rest of the boards. Keep debating and conversing, I think that we can learn something worthwhile from most if not all belief systems.

What furthers intellectualism and knowledge? It sure isn't a group of people being yes men and nodding their heads in agreement.

Debate brings insight and insight brings growth.

Keep up the good work.