Where did all the Indians go?

As a native american I am slightly surprised by the lead article on the MSN National section which trumpets the "minority population topping 100 million", to find that only 3% of these minorities are native american? This has got to be wrong. Surely there are more of us than that. The totals are as follows:

79.3% Caucasian
15.5% Hispanic or Latino (This is shown to overlap with caucasian)
13.1% Black
4.6% Asian
3% Other

The article is here:
www.msnbc.msn.com...

Although I'm not exactly certain, but I DID hear something about the poor job on providing a census for reservations around the country.

this site might help you out :

www.census.gov...

Also, there has recently been a new initiation in gathering natives around the nation called the CDIB card. It's basically a new membership service to register your tribal ethnicity.

here is information on that site : www.accessgenealogy.com...

Hmm, well that means that 1 in 33 people in the USA are natives. I live in Canada, so it might be slightly different, but that seems to agree with my personal experiences.

According to this link Canada had 1.3 million natives in the year 2001, which was 4.4% of our population. I realize those aren't American numbers, but your native population, percentagewise, is probably very similar to ours.

It could also depend on how the census was done. For example, were they counting full-blooded natives only, or including people of mixed ancestry, and if so, how many native ancestors do you need to be considered a native American? One great grandparent, two, five, seven?

Also, perhaps in your area, there are many more native Americans than the national average, so that your perception of your numbers may be wrong. For example, at my university, women comprise well over 50% of the student population, but since I was in engineering, which had something like 90% men, I didn't even realize that until I read it in the newspaper one day.

No its absolutely right and thats actually up in recent decades, due to people claiming native heritage because of increased benefits. I've heard estimates that place the population at 1%. Sorry, but the white man really did wipe out that many people. And they made sure they assimilated into the normal population, thus diminishing the population size to nearly nothing.

posted by god_of_wine

Where did all the Indians go? As a native American I am slightly surprised by the lead article on the MSN National section which trumpets the "minority population topping 100 million" to find that only 3% of these minorities are Native American? This has got to be wrong. Surely there are more of us than that. The totals are as follows:

79.3% Caucasian
15.5% Hispanic or Latino (This is shown to overlap with caucasian)
13.1% Black
4.6% Asian
3% Other

No one knows how many Native Americans lived north of the Rio Grande before 1492. A new outlook is found in a recent book, “1491: New Revelations of the Americas Before Columbus” by Charles C. Mann, a 2005 Best Seller. I like the estimate of 15 million, about half way from the high (25 m.) down to the low (3 m.) estimates. Most of the NA deaths resulting in the sharp decline in NA population, were caused by disease. That in turn is largely attributed to the Spanish explorer Hernando DeSoto (1496-1542) who led the first large expedition into the Southeastern United States in 1539. Starting in Florida, he died 3 years later along the Mississippi River at what is now Lake Village AR.

The expedition included 9 ships and 620 men, 220 horse, 100s of pigs and dogs and other domestic animals. Over several millennia Europeans had acquired a level of immunity to several animal diseases that crossed over to humans, especially in pigs, but Native American were complexly unprepared for these diseases. Unintentionally, some of the animals ran wild and flourished in the rich land of the southern US. Between 1539 and 1583 or 1607 or 1620, you choose, upwards of 90% of Native Americans are thought to have died. Mr. Mann, in his book, explains how he reached those numbers.

The US Census for 1900 showed the Native American population reached its nadir (low point) at slightly under 300,000. The population has been growing steadily since that time but I do not know how many Native Americans there are today. The white settlers waged a long hard no quarter war on the Native Americans, ending in what is now South Dakota, at Wounded Knee, on December 29, 1890. When the smoke settled, 25 7th Cavalry soldiers lay dead along with 300 Indians. Another 150 Indians escaped but almost certainly froze to death in the bitter winter. If you ever had any doubt where white America stood, know this: Congress awarded twenty (20) Medals of Honor for the action, revenging the Battle of Little Big Horn. This is more MoH awarded than in any other engagement in US military history.

Now what’s this Native American taking the nome de plume God of Wine? I did not know Native Americans made alcoholic beverages? Or is that an urban legend?

[edit on 5/18/2007 by donwhite]

Not to burst anyone's bubble, but "Native Americans" are just migrated Asians.
Genetic proof and rational thought are both on this side.

If you examine the world before mechanized travel, and realize that people are just animals such as the dog (Who has mutated into various breeds) based on geographical location and environmentally helped "evolution" (More of just minor steps in the process, not an end result evolution)

So you have Africa, I'm willing to believe the "cradle" of human life from which we expanded and explored, and separated ourselves from. And then there is a skin color change the more north humans settled.

This is a very basic way to put it, but the comparison of Asian to Native, is like the comparison to Swedish blondes and Irish Brunettes.

We are all human, we all have shared roots, we are all the same species because we can create fertile offspring among ourselves, and there weren't magical seedings of the world from differently colored aliens that just happen to be able to breed with each other.

Its sad to admit as someone who doesn't believe in the bible as a source of truth, but you must believe this if you believe in the bible, because according to it, all humanity came from 2 people, who just inbred with each other until they created all the races.

posted by drk3p
Not to burst anyone's bubble, but "Native Americans" are just migrated Asians. [Edited by Don W]

Shucks, Mr DrK3P, everybody comes from somewhere. Caucasians are just Negroes moved north (which you acknowledged).

We are all human, we have shared roots, we are the same species . . It’s sad to admit as someone who doesn't believe in the Bible as a source of truth, but you must believe this if you believe in the Bible, because according to it, all humanity came from 2 people, who just inbred with each other until they created all the races. [Edited by Don W]

Well, maybe not Mr DrK3P. Many skeptics claim that for Cain to find a wife there must have been other ‘races’ of people on Earth who were not descendants of Adam and Eve. Incest. Always frowned on. Often a crime. Forbidden by law in most states. Including Kentucky. Incest is legally defined as the 3rd degree of consanguinity. 2nd cousin, no, 3rd cousin, yes. When necessity dictates, this rule is invariably suspended.

The story of Adam is first told in Genesis 1 and 2 to verse 3. However, the story is retold in the following verses in a different and inconsistent way, see Genesis 2 from v. 4 to v. 24. The second story of Creation. Later, in Genesis 4, is the story of Cain fleeing to the Land of Nod after having killed his brother, Abel. When he arrived in Nod, he built a city. If Nod was not inhabited, what for, how and why did Cain build a city?

For many people, this question is a stumbling block to accepting the creation account in Genesis as both Inspired and Inerrant. Essential to Protestant theology. Catholic John Calvin turned Protestant theologian, commenting on this issue, said: “From the context we may gather that Cain, before he slew his brother, had married a wife; otherwise Moses would not have related something respecting his marriage.” Wikipedia.

And one more thing: Who would want to harm Cain for killing Abel? Strangers would not have known or cared. Only those who were closely related to Abel would harm Cain! It follows then that Cain was married BEFORE he went to the land of Nod. Based on the Holy Writ.

[edit on 6/10/2007 by donwhite]

My point was there that stats should group natives with Asians and thats where all the native numbers should go in the census.

Originally posted by drk3p
My point was there that stats should group natives with Asians and thats where all the native numbers should go in the census.

?????

As someone else pointed out, by that logic, we would all be counted as "Africans". Besides, the Native Americans came here at least 15,000 years ago, if not longer. During the last 15,000, Native Americans have developed differently than Asians, all you have to do is look at them and you can see different features from Asians.

There is also a group of people known as Melungeons who come from Appalachia. They are part Native American, part Black, and part white. I'd be real interested to know how you would classify them.

drk3p, are you just on a hunt to rant and rave about Natives? I noticed that in your own thread this seems to be the thrust of it all.

You will not get any sympathy from me in your 'cause' to prove that Native Peoples should be removed from society.

Too bad that being a bigot is so prevalent. Before today I had not noticed that there is such a thing as a Canadian Redneck.

posted by drk3p
My point was there that stats should group natives with Asians and thats where all the native numbers should go in the census.

Oops! I got slightly off track there DrK3P. Excuse please.

[edit on 6/10/2007 by donwhite]

Actually, I would have everyone grouped together under one united label, then keep this foolish business of classifying everything into their own groups.
Who cares how many of what skin color are in a country, it doesn't matter because every single one of those people in the country should be treated EXACTLY the same as everyone else.

And for the anti native aspect, I'm not against them, I'm against how they are treated, and how they are probably brainwashed into expecting to be treated they way they are, as different, as something that needs to be sheltered.

They are no more special, and deserve no more consideration then anyone else. Do not get offended because what I'm trying to say is that everyone is just human, so whats the big deal.

I know thats not how the world works, so thats why I speak my mind.

posted by forestlady
“ . . by that logic we would all be counted as "Africans." The Native Americans came here at least 15,000 years ago, if not longer. During the last 15,000 years, Native Americans have [evolved] differently than Asians: look at [NAs] and you can see different features from [modern] Asians . . [Edited by Don W]

posted by NGC2736
You will not get any sympathy from me in your 'cause' to prove that Native Peoples should be removed from society. [Edited by Don W]

I still remember when ‘Clovis’ was the biggest thing in North American anthropology. First discovered at Folsom NM, in the late 1920s and again in the 1930s, Clovis NM gave its name to what was for a long time thought to be the first recovery of artifacts used by the inhabitants of the area around 12,000 years ago. Since then many other discoveries have been found pointing toward 3 or 4 separate incursions - migrations - from Asia going back as far as 30,000 years ago. Nowadays a ‘find’ is often designated as pre-Clovis, post-Clovis and contemporary with Clovis.

As for removal of Native Peoples - Canadian for Native American - I think we were talking about the Census and how ethnic origins are defined. Not about ethnic cleansing or genocide. This is not old Yugoslavia.

[edit on 6/10/2007 by donwhite]

Oh and I'm also going to rant about French Canadians and their claim that their heritage is separate from Canada's and they deserve special consideration. But thats another time.

donwhite, I am aware that it was the census being discussed. However, if you can erase a group's name, then you're one step closer to erasing the group. When someone says I want to replace your name with something else, to no longer recognize you as an individual, they are erasing you as a person.

I simply feel that this is the first step in that direction.

When someone says I want to replace your name with something else, to no longer recognize you as an individual, they are erasing you as a person.

That is my point, society replaced their name and standing has Human Beings, and gave them the label of different, which lead people into thinking they are not people, since they had a new name, which meant they were something non human, or lesser human.

Everyone should have the name "person", "human" or anything similar, and thats where it should stop.

We all are individuals, and it has nothing to do with what label we have or even if we have the same label, thats like saying all lawyers and politicians are the same. They may do similar actions because thats what the job calls for, but each one of those people are humans who have their own life and have their own qualities, and they are all different from each other.

posted by NGC2736

donwhite, I am aware that it was the census being discussed. However, if you can erase a group's name, then you're one step closer to erasing the group. When someone says I want to replace your name with something else, to no longer recognize you as an individual, they are erasing you as a person. I simply feel that this is the first step in that direction.

Touché, Mr NG6. Your point is well taken. I’m just now reading a book that should have brought that to my mind at once, “The Holocaust Lady” by Ruth Minsky Sender, a Polish Jew who survived.

[edit on 6/10/2007 by donwhite]

drk3p, exactly. Your government replaced the names on their side, but because they recognized our separateness right from the start, as evidenced by the treaties, they cannot, by their own oath to uphold the treaties, change anything in them.

You can't go down to the local courthouse and tell them that since you mow the right of way in front of your house, it now belongs to you. It is not your property, and you cannot change the wording in the deed that was written.

drk3p, you just want to re-write history, and the agreed to meanings of past documents, because your selfishness can't stand the thought that it didn't work out to your benefit in the long run.

Sour grapes.

Work out for me in the long run?
I wasn't there at the beginning of it, And Native Americans where people long before they named themselves, just because they gave themselves a name doesn't mean it changes what they are.
They are apart of the world, they are apart of the human race, we treat ourselves badly, we kill rape steal and all that crap to ourselves.

If there is to be compensation, it should only happen to the people directly involved. I don't accredit my grandfather for my birth, sure with out him I wouldn't be here, but the choice of my birth only goes as far as my mother and father.

And if they decided to become Bonny and Clyde, that would not mean that I would have to repay all the banks they robbed, all give compensation the families destroyed.

And just because a government has done something in the past doesn't make it right.
You cant say they were wrong about the bad stuff, but anything that benefits us now, well that was just right and therefore immune to review and change.

Nope, never asked them, or you, to do a single damn thing except live up to the conditions of the treaties and agreements of your government.

If you knew history, you would know that it was just kind of revisionism that Hitler used in relation to the treaties that ended WWI. He felt, or at least used it for politics, that the German people were being abused by having to adhere to that treaty, and that it should be ignored.

You need to get a better understanding of situational ethics before you try changing the world. And a wee bit more history couldn't hurt either.