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Why We Hate Hugo Chavez

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posted on May, 1 2007 @ 11:25 AM
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I'd like to open up a discussion as to why America hates Hugo Chavez so much. Let's move beyond the ignorant rhetoric of "He's a communist" or "he's a fascist", and really take a look at what he's done for the Venexualan people.

First of all, Hugo Chavez was democratically elected, and then democratically re-elected, as such he is not a dictator in any way shape or form.

Immediatly after being elected, he enacted the Plan Bolivar 2000:



The plan involved around 40,000 Venezuelan soldiers involved in door-to-door anti-poverty activities, including mass vaccinations, food distribution in slum areas, and education. The program also transported thousands of poor and ill Venezuelans at cost by military cargo planes and helicopters, as a means of alleviating their domestic travel expenses.


Sounds pretty evil to me.


Under his presidency in Venezuela, Crime has gone down, poverty has gone down, the unemployment rate has gone down, Venezuala's GDP is at a twenty year all time high, inflation is down.

People in the United States have said we should stop buying oil from Citgo, because it is owned by Venezuela which has nationalized their oil industry. It isn't very advertised however, that a portion of the profits from Citgo gasoline goes to homeless shelters in the united states, and that both Citgo and Venezuela provide discount heating oil to families in the U.S.

Still sounds pretty evil to me.


Lastly, and the most recent development is this:

Venezuela Withdraws from the World Bank and IMF

All I can say, is good for them. The World Bank and IMF are two of the most oppressive and evil organizations in the world, and the reason most thrid world countries are unable to get out of the spiral of debt. Having lived in Colombia myself for two years, and seeing firsthand the devestation caused by these awful organizations, I'm very excited about the possibility of Venezuela starting an orginaztion to actually help Latin America pull itself out of poverty, rather than taking advantage of their situation and making things worse for them by lending large sums of money at interest rates the country can't possibly pay back. This is one of the best things I've heard in a long time.

As far as criticisms of Hugo Chavez that I've heard, as an American, they ring somewhat comically on my ears.

Source

So let's go through these line by line.

#1 - Allegations of electoral fraud and abuse
Boy, this doesn't sound familiar at all! Would Bush be willing to submit to an honest and fair recall vote like Chavez was? No, because without his election fraud in both Ohio and Florida, he wouldn't be President today.

#2 - Authoritarian rule and power consolidation
Patriot act anyone? Not to mention the suspension of habeas corpus and Bush's ability to ignore posse comitatus. We could also get into the whole illegal wiretapping, firing of the attorney's, and all the other completely unethical things our current administration has done in an unpresedented power grab.

#3 - Human Rights
All I have to say to this criticism, is Guantanamo Bay, and Abu-Gehrab. As if the United States is in any position to criticize a country for Human Rights violations.

#4 - Free Speech
Isn't it interesting that now, in the United States, you can't protest unless you have a permit, and you're relegated to "Free Speech Zones"?

#5 - Economic Policy
Venezuela's economy is the most stable it's been in a very, very long time. I wish I could say the same about the US economy.

#6 - Corruption
So far, no one has been able to successfully link Chavez to any sort of corrupt menuveurings or inappropriate use of money, there are only rumors and accusations which have gone no where. Yet George Bush and Dick Cheney continue to make money off of the War in Iraq through their holdings in Haliburton and the Carlisle Group, and if that isn't the definition of corruption, I don't know what is.

#7 - Foreign Policy
This is the last point I'd like to address, where we criticize Chavez for being critical of the U.S., and vocal of his opinion. I'm sorry, but it's not like our leaders are exactly nice to other countries. Let's see, we had the Freedom Fries Surrender Monkey spat with France, we've labelled a series of countries the "Axis of Evil", I mean, does that sound really productive to diplomacy in any way?

Let's put it this way, if you were of one religious persuasion, and I of another, and I came to your door and said "You know, you and your family are evil and going to hell." Would you be interested in having a discussion about religion with me? Probably not...

I for one applaud Chavez for doing what he thinks is right, and standing up to the bully that the U.S. has become. Remember when our country used to be a becon of freedom and liberty in the world? What went wrong?

So I'd like to hear some other ATSer's take on Hugo Chavez, and whether or not we're even in a valid position to crticize him on his policies, when ours are so woefully terrible. I honestly think the U.S. is much closer to a fascist dictatorship than Venezuela is. The sad part is, thanks to the corporate media, most people are not even aware of it.




posted on May, 1 2007 @ 11:38 AM
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Chavez is hated for two reasons:

1. he spouts hateful rhetoric when in our nation. this was a major political gaffe, and he should have konwn better. As well, making friends with our enemies is not a good way to garner support.

2. the US Gov and their lapdog media has painted a really ugly picture of this new leader who will not bow to American pressure. He will not allow his people to be the subject of the perceived "Clandestine Imperialism" that america is reputed to take part in.

Now...there are other things like the election principles he has followed to get reelected...but those two points sum up the gist of it.



posted on May, 1 2007 @ 11:43 AM
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Looks like a case of mass psychological projection to me:


Common Definitions:

- "Projection is the opposite defence mechanism to identification. We project our own unpleasant feelings onto someone else and blame them for having thoughts that we really have."

- "A defense mechanism in which the individual attributes to other people impulses and traits that he himself has but cannot accept. It is especially likely to occur when the person lacks insight into his own impulses and traits."

-"Attributing one's own undesirable traits to other people or agencies."
"The individual perceives in others the motive he denies having himself. Thus the cheat is sure that everyone else is dishonest."

-"People attribute their own undesirable traits onto others."

- "An individual who possesses malicious characteristics, but who is unwilling to perceive himself as an antagonist, convinces himself that his opponent feels and would act the same way."


It's also a well recognised tactic in war and politics (I forget if it's Sun Tzu or Machiavelli) to accuse your opponent of the very things you are doing in order to divert attention from yourself and focus people's attention on the big lie. If you repeat it often and loud enough everyone starts to believe it.

As far as the people of Venezuela recently voting to give Chavez dictatorial powers, that's their democratic problem to deal with. They will have to live with their decision and any future ramifications. Much like US citizens will have to deal with Bush's legacy.
.



posted on May, 1 2007 @ 12:50 PM
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Well, let me see.. his knocking the Pres of the USA at the United Nations? I mean who needs some foreign oil guru saying to the world that USA President George W. Bush is the Devil?

Certainly, it can't be 'cause Chavez gave, what was it?, 50% off Oil Prices for East Coast US Home users heating fuel in 2006 (&2005 partial)? No.
He actually appologived this year for his stinken words at the UN last year.

Dallas



posted on May, 1 2007 @ 01:00 PM
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Originally posted by Dallas
Well, let me see.. his knocking the Pres of the USA at the United Nations? I mean who needs some foreign oil guru saying to the world that USA President George W. Bush is the Devil?


I guess I understand the frustration, but I don't really see how this is very different from Bush and company labelling a bunch of countries the "Axis of Evil". It seems like petty name calling on both sides, and I see very little difference between the two.



posted on May, 1 2007 @ 02:15 PM
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Hear yah Athenion
The problem is, I feel, don't turn this dictator against the US. The good people of the United States seem to fall deeper & deeper into world distrust and even hate. NOT against the American People, but through decisions made by an il advised President I think.

Correct me if I'm wrong

Dallas



posted on May, 1 2007 @ 04:40 PM
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I love and support Chavez more than any president I see in the world today or dictator, emperor, etc. He took a lesson from history and is trying to avert repetition and so far has done exactly that. Besides, if you look at how much his people support him (note there is still that part that is gungho anti-chavez and 100% for US corporations owning everything... ugh) and love him it makes sense why they would grant him more power. They trust him. That is TRUELY a RARE and I mean RARE thing to see in the world. For someone to ASK the people for more power and GET IT!?!?! That is a WHOLE LOT of trust they are putting in him, which should make everyone else in the world go: "Now wait a minute, if he is so hated, why are the people willing to give him more power?" However people will always hiss and spit about this, but when you have someone the people trust, what have you got to loose? Not much. Not in todays world at any rate.
As for US relations, if he could just get the message accross of how he is helping the poorer Americans by offering his reduced oil prices, he will gain more favor. At the same time though, I doubt he would refer to Americans as evil then give us cheap as dirt oil... That is illogical. Now saying the US government is evil, yup, makes sense and I support that 100%.
Chavez bashing is what rednecks, bible thumpers, fascists, anti-everything but 100% capitalism and horribly missinformed people do. The guy has managed to do more good than anyone else in South America let alone all of the Americas put together. Then done it while corporations and the USA try and stare them down, now that takes guts and nerve. There is a video out on the internet all of you should watch, then you will know why relations between the USA and Venezuela are so strained: "The revelution shall not be televized." Then you will know why the Venezuelans want Chavez to stick around longer, if not for life.


Edit: slight change in wording.

[edit on 1-5-2007 by Vekar]



posted on May, 1 2007 @ 06:35 PM
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Originally posted by Athenion
I for one applaud Chavez for doing what he thinks is right, and standing up to the bully that the U.S. has become.


Bill Hicks, Bullies of the world
www.youtube.com...

He also called Bush a donkey. The Bush is Satan remarks were in reference to Bush attending the strange rituals at Bohemian Grove, and his belief that Bush's regime were behind 9/11 attacks.

I have alot more admiration for Chavez than for any other world leader at the present. He does appear to be putting the people first on his agenda, and this will make him a target. The Neocons would love to start a war against Venezuela, and it could happen in the next few years. They already organised a military coup against him



posted on May, 1 2007 @ 06:47 PM
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The US ire of Chavez is a set up to invasion. He is taking back his nation from western corporations and the US Gov doesn't like that very much.

We all hate Chavez because both GOP and Dem talking points tell the media that we should, so the message is over communicated.

I don't think I actually admire him that much. He is too egotistical for me to actually admire. It is more latino machismo, but i don't like ego.

But, I do think he is doing a good job for his nation. He should watch standing shoulder to shoulder with Ahmedinijad, in my opinion, as it does little good for his nation to do so. He may not like the US...but Iran is not a good shoulder to cry on.

The "Axis of Evil" statement is true and represents the norm for american politics. The countries labelled as such really are the current Axis. Sure, it was glorification...but their actions speak volumes.



posted on May, 1 2007 @ 06:50 PM
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I don't hate Hugo Chavez


He has done nothing to harm me or my family . . .

He is hated and tagged a "problem" because he took his country corrupted US backed government and cleaned house, including the US oil companies that were backed by the corrupted government in Venezuela.

He survived a US backed coup and still won the elections.

I don't hate him . . . but I am sure that our oil barons and corporate American will rather see him erase from the face of the earth.



posted on May, 2 2007 @ 11:38 AM
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Right on Athenion! Great post, shameful what mass disinformation networks can do these days. Sadly, only a limited audience will actually see this post, and thus the grand majority will continue thinking of Chavez as a "threat". Why? Well, umm... CNN says he's evil! And... Oh, oh he said Bush was the devil!

Sadly I see this ending in a economic siege and maybe an armed conflict, but oh well, hopefully he'll have done enough good for his country by then that he'll have it's support. Or, better yet, we'll manage to get a GOOD President running the states before Bush manages to screw things up, yes, even MORE.



posted on May, 2 2007 @ 11:59 AM
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Originally posted by Athenion

So I'd like to hear some other ATSer's take on Hugo Chavez, and whether or not we're even in a valid position to crticize him on his policies, when ours are so woefully terrible. I honestly think the U.S. is much closer to a fascist dictatorship than Venezuela is. The sad part is, thanks to the corporate media, most people are not even aware of it.



Hugo is a god send for all people that need and love a big brother running their lives, someone to do everything for them. Hugo is another Stalin, Castro, Ho Chi Minh; a person that does the thinking for those that can’t or wish not to think on their own.

Problem is those types of tyrants quickly tire of spoon feeding their subjects and turn on them, and eventually treating their people like animals---but hey the health care and big brother brain washing schools are great---



posted on May, 2 2007 @ 01:05 PM
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Sleeper: wrong, he is not another Ho-Chi-Mihn or Stalin, those guys were already murdering people before they even took power. Anyone who questioned them: *bang*
Hugo Chavez needs some of that big brother power considering the CIA tried to overthrow him, he has crazed lunes running around his nation who are the remnants of the fallen corporations. Then to kick it off: the nation is in TOTAL shambles from previous "presidents." So far he has done miracles with the power given, and so long as he does this he is not at fault for having the power. GO CHAVEZ! South America, heck even the USA needs a guy like him, someone who can in less than 10 years turn a nation around from 3rd world into a nation that protects and cares for its people and is quickly digging its way out of the hole it is in. That takes A LOT of work, especially as stated earlier in this topic: "When you have the USA breathing down your neck along with corporations." Especially when the two just named want you dead and 6ft under ASAP.
Azure: Remember the CNN poll about who is more evil? Bush #1 and satan #10. You have to be one HECK of a character to outdo satan hands down.



posted on May, 2 2007 @ 01:39 PM
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President Chavez of Venezuela,

the PTB have not yet focused on 'handling' him, we're only at the
1st stage of demogogary which ammounts to lighting the kindling
under the stew pot...

but as the Chavez vision develops, the 'western' PTB will add fuel
to the fire, up till the point that the Pot is full of Boiling Water.

The 2 latest diversions from the NWO program for Venezuela are the
seizing/nationalizing of the petroleum fields...
and Formalizing a deal with Belarus for defensive missiles, and other
military hardware.

look for more Chavez 'restructuring' of the other mining & mineral
resources that Venezuela has already running, under foreign corporation domination...and producing only foreign corporation profits,
while the landscapes and social order disintegrates around the mining camps.

'Chavez' might not rise to a 'Bolivar' status in South America, but he is a great start....
i also hope that the old adage does not come true;
the one of->> 'Power corrupts, Absolute Power corrupts Absolutely"

thanks,



posted on May, 2 2007 @ 02:35 PM
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Originally posted by Vekar
GO CHAVEZ! South America, heck even the USA needs a guy like him,


No thanks, but I admit there are plenty of Americans blinded by the desire for cheap gas that would gladly give up their freedoms in exchange for a tyrant like Chavez.

Tyrants don’t come dressed as tyrants they come dressed as saviors of the working man---Chavez is that tyrant.

There is more poverty in Venezuela now than ever before and it’s only the tip of the iceberg. Once foreign capital leaves in droves the oil fields will not be enough to make up the difference and Venezuela’s inflation will shoot through the roof and the economy will crash.

The first few mounts maybe a year or two things may look rosy for the peasants who don’t know any better and whose lives may improve a notch briefly, but the Venezuela ship is already taking on water and sinking fast.

This life was created to challenge us, but for those that choose to duck that challenge by falling for sweet talking tyrants will pay through the nose twice---they will suffer and so will their children’s children.



posted on May, 2 2007 @ 02:55 PM
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Hugo won't play ball with Bush.
so Georgie tells Michael.
Michael tells the man.
Hugo gets assassinated history repats again.

US corporation aren't getting what they want
so pressure is applied. Chavez 'the enemy' is demonized.
Propaganda tells us



posted on May, 2 2007 @ 03:28 PM
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Originally posted by sleeper
There is more poverty in Venezuela now than ever before and it’s only the tip of the iceberg. Once foreign capital leaves in droves the oil fields will not be enough to make up the difference and Venezuela’s inflation will shoot through the roof and the economy will crash.


Could you please site some sources on this data, about how inflation is rising, and how poverty is at an all time high? Because everything I've seen contradicts what your saying.

These charts, for example, taken from wikipedia, indicate that poverty is going down, the unemployment rate is going down, and inflation is going down. So it seems to me that you're just spouting more unfounded disinformation, the kind that our current Presdient and his administration love to push into the media (kind of like those nasty WMD's Iraq supposedly had.)




posted on May, 2 2007 @ 04:57 PM
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Originally posted by Athenion

These charts, for example, taken from wikipedia, indicate that poverty is going down, the unemployment rate is going down, and inflation is going down.



Charts on Wikipedia, put there by Chavez people are a tad biased don’t you think?---


Chavez has taken over or is in the process of taking over most Venezuela industry including replacing all media with his propaganda machine---therefore everything is peachy in Venezuela---not!

Anyway the sh-t has not hit the fan yet; give it a few months before it hits home. I have nothing against Venezuela, I hate for any country to go down the tubes needlessly---I wish them well



posted on May, 2 2007 @ 05:42 PM
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Originally posted by sleeper
Charts on Wikipedia, put there by Chavez people are a tad biased don’t you think?---


If you actually read the wikipedia entry, you'd learn that the chart was taken from:



WDI/World Bank


Don't believe me? Well, then go to the World Bank website yourself and look up the data.

So instead of continuing to attack my sources of information, why not do what I initially asked, and provide some of your own?

Since apparently the World Bank isn't a good source of ecenomic growth, and probably has a bias in favor of Huga Chavez.



posted on May, 2 2007 @ 05:48 PM
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Originally posted by bigfatfurrytexan


We all hate Chavez because both GOP and Dem talking points tell the media that we should, so the message is over communicated.

I don't think I actually admire him that much. He is too egotistical for me to actually admire. It is more latino machismo, but i don't like ego.

I find both of the statements said as a "matter of fact". There is a wrong assumption made when you say "We all" hate Chavez... frankly, I do not know his policies as well as the Locals but I know them better than average American citizen... but most informed people do not hate him.

Saying his actions are "Latino Machismo" is minimizing him as an individual. Your comment would be essentially the same as saying Bush is Texan Bravado. Both have no basis or foundation.





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