Climate change hits Mars

Climate change hits Mars

www.prisonplanet.com

London Times
Monday, April 30, 2007

Mars is being hit by rapid climate change and it is happening so fast that the red planet could lose its southern ice cap, writes Jonathan Leake.

Scientists from Nasa say that Mars has warmed by about 0.5C since the 1970s. This is similar to the warming experienced on Earth over approximately the same period.

Since there is no known life on Mars it suggests rapid changes in planetary climates could be natural phenomena.

(visit the link for the full news article)


Related News Links:
www.timesonline.co.uk

This is one of the facts overlooked by the Global Warming brigade, one which can not be ignored. If Global Warming is caused by humans, then why has Mars, and other planets, experienced climate change in the same time period also.

All i need to say really is, the human footprint of carbon emissions is so low it makes me laugh. What difference would "green taxes" and "green laws" make if we have a neglible impact anyway in regards to Co2 and other "greenhouse gases".

Im all for cutting back on pollution, whether it be nuclear waste or simply particulate pollution from coal factories, whatever. But you can't ignore the fact that this "eco-concern" has turned into a real political issue, which is gaining alot of momentum. Given the dangerous times we live in, should we really be so eager to hand over power/money to "fix" this problem..

The natives and indigenous people must be laughing at how gullable the "modern world" has become. Even they know whats causing the climate change..

"The only force strong enough to affect global climate is the Sun" - The Day After Tomorrow

The Solar Cycle reaches a maximum in 2011/2012..i urge you to research into this area


www.prisonplanet.com
(visit the link for the full news article)

Must be global warming...

Tell the aliens to start using eco friendly appliances and vehicles..

I am sure that will stop the planet from getting warmer.. Ya know kinda like here....

HAHA

Originally posted by ThichHeaded
Must be global warming...
Tell the aliens to start using eco friendly appliances and vehicles..

I wander what Sheryl Crow would say in response to this news article...or Al Gore haha!

Originally posted by shrunkensimon
I wander what Sheryl Crow would say in response to this news article...or Al Gore haha!

"Well, clearly we need to stop our production of greenhouse gases, as they are traveling to mars from our atmosphere. Also, we need to build environmentally friendly Mars Rovers, in order to prevent such warming."

Yes, looks like it's not just us.

What about Mercury, Venus, Saturn, Uranus, the many natural satellites (particularly the ones with an atmosphere), etc.? How come we don't hear about global warming on those planets? Perhaps it's because it's not happening on those planets. In fact, there's been no detectable signs of warming on Phobos--one of the moons of Mars.

Just as it would be wrong to ignore signs of global warming on Mars, it's wrong to ignore all the other orbital bodies we've been observing in our Solar System that show no signs of warming.

We don't know enough about Mars to be able to claim that global warming there is due to the Sun, and not to something seasonal, or Milankovitch cycles. The very article cited even says the following:

Prisonplanet is not really a reliable website. I know some members put their faith on such websites and although sometimes websites like Prisonplanet do get their news from other websites imo it is not reliable in the least.

Here is another website, where the people from prisonplanet took these news. This website is more reliable imho.

Climate change hits Mars
Mars is being hit by rapid climate change and it is happening so fast that the red planet could lose its southern ice cap, writes Jonathan Leake.

Scientists from Nasa say that Mars has warmed by about 0.5C since the 1970s. This is similar to the warming experienced on Earth over approximately the same period.

www.timesonline.co.uk...

The Martian Climate warming cycle is caused by an entirely different phenomenon than that of Earth.

The Martian one is caused by massive dust storms scraping away the soil,
which exposes the dark rock underneath, that rock than absorbs more
heat than it would naturally, the heat released later causes further
dust storms that become more powerful, eventually Mars will be engulfed
in a single planetary storm, of course that will eventually die down.



This subject has already been discussed previously both on the main
boards and as a breaking news article, though I don't have the news
article link off hand.

Originally posted by supercheetah
What about Mercury

Here is some information about those planets you were asking about.

Mercury is a battered and baked planet just larger than Earth's moon. Evidence of heavy bombardment from the chaos of the formation of the solar system is left in the hundreds of craters and resulting lava flows on this small, barren planet.

www.kidscosmos.org...

This is from a kid's website, but is enough to inform some people.

Mercury is pretty much like our Moon but just a bit larger. There are no oceans or water, there are no winds and the atmosphere is very thin, btw the Earth's moon also has a thin atmosphere in case you didn't know.

Originally posted by supercheetah
Venus

The brightest of all planets, Venus, is also known as the Morning Star and the Evening Star. This planet is about the same size as Earth but is covered with impenetrable clouds of carbon dioxide and sulfur compounds. Radar mapping of the planet shows lots of craters and that 90% of the landforms are volcanic. Venus spins slowly retrograde (backwards west to east) in 243 days and takes about 225 days to orbit the sun. This makes the daytime about 115 days which can raise surface temperatures up to 464° C.

www.kidscosmos.org...

Venus has runaway Global Warming as 97% of it's atmosphere is CO2 and the rest is Nitrogen. The clouds that constantly cover Venus do not help us much but we do know that Venus seems to be a very geologically active planet. The Earth has had higher levels of CO2 in the past than we have now, yet the Earth has never become Venus, yet some people are claiming that the small increase in CO2 would make Earth another Venus but that's simply not true in the least.

Originally posted by supercheetah
Saturn

As a matter of fact there have been some strange changes in Saturn.

The Saturn storm is bigger not only in diameter than an Earth hurricane, but in height too, with a ring of huge clouds towering 20-45 miles (30-70km) above the well-developed eye - two to five times higher than in storms on Earth.

Unknown phenomenon

One Nasa scientist, Michael Flasar, told Reuters news agency that the storm looked just like water swirling down a bath plug hole, only on a colossal scale. "We've never seen anything like this before," Mr Flasar said. "It's a spectacular-looking storm."

news.bbc.co.uk...

It is the first time that such a storm has been seen in Saturn.

As a matter of fact there have been some recent changes in Enceladus which are also affecting Saturn.

“No one could have predicted that the little moon Enceladus would have such an influence on the radio technique that has been used for years to determine the length of the Saturn day,” said Dr. Don Gurnett of the University of Iowa, Iowa City. Gurnett is the principal investigator on the radio and plasma wave science experiment onboard NASA's Cassini spacecraft. The radio technique measures the rotation of the planet by taking its radio pulse rate - the rhythm of natural radio signals from the planet.

www.physorg.com...

So changes that are happening in Enceladus is affecting the rotation o Saturn, difficulties we didn't have in the past.

Originally posted by supercheetah
Uranus

Uranus takes 84 years to orbit the sun, changes are seen constantly in this planet but it is impossible to tell whether these changes are just because of the long orbit of the planet or because it might be going through Climate Change.

Originally posted by supercheetah
the many natural satellites (particularly the ones with an atmosphere), etc.? How come we don't hear about global warming on those planets? Perhaps it's because it's not happening on those planets. In fact, there's been no detectable signs of warming on Phobos--one of the moons of Mars.

Phobos diameter is 28 by 20 Km, or 12 by 8 miles... Phobos has no atmosphere, there are no oceans, no winds etc, hence no climate.

As for Climate changes in other planets in the solar system there are, and we have had many threads about them.

www.abovetopsecret.com...




[edit on 30-4-2007 by Muaddib]

Muaadibb, the times link was included in the OP

Originally posted by Muaddib
Mercury is pretty much like our Moon but just a bit larger. There are no oceans or water, there are no winds and the atmosphere is very thin, btw the Earth's moon also has a thin atmosphere in case you didn't know.

If the sun were truly responsible for global warming, one would think that we'd be able to observe something on that barren surface that would be notable, but no one's talking about it.

Venus has runaway Global Warming as 97% of it's atmosphere is CO2 and the rest is Nitrogen. The clouds that constantly cover Venus do not help us much but we do know that Venus seems to be a very geologically active planet. The Earth has had higher levels of CO2 in the past than we have now, yet the Earth has never become Venus, yet some people are claiming that the small increase in CO2 would make Earth another Venus but that's simply not true in the least.

Yeah, the planet with runaway global warming...I'd think that if the sun were responsible, global warming would have an exponential effect there, but again, there has been nothing notable in that regards.

As a matter of fact there have been some strange changes in Saturn.
-snip-
It is the first time that such a storm has been seen in Saturn.

So, a planet for which we know nothing of its seasons (well, actually, we know very little about in general), you decided that these things are due to global warming?

Uranus takes 84 years to orbit the sun, changes are seen constantly in this planet but it is impossible to tell whether these changes are just because of the long orbit of the planet or because it might be going through Climate Change.

Just what point were you trying to make?

Phobos diameter is 28 by 20 Km, or 12 by 8 miles... Phobos has no atmosphere, there are no oceans, no winds etc, hence no climate.

As for Climate changes in other planets in the solar system there are, and we have had many threads about them.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

Just because an orbital body doesn't have an atmosphere doesn't mean we can't measure any kind of warming trend.

You mentioned Pluto in the other thread. Pluto is about 30 times farther than the earn, and it sees a scant 15% of the amount of light seen on Earth. That's just over twice the amount of sunlight we see from the Moon[1]. If the Sun were truly responsible for global warming on Pluto, we'd be toast.

Heck, if the Sun were truly responsible global warming on the outer planets, we'd be in a lot worse shape.

Originally posted by shrinking man

Climate change hits Mars

www.prisonplanet.com

London Times
Monday, April 30, 2007

Mars is being hit by rapid climate change and it is happening so fast that the red planet could lose its southern ice cap, writes Jonathan Leake.

Scientists from NASA say that Mars has warmed by about 0.5C since the 1970s. This is similar to the warming experienced on Earth over approximately the same period.

Since there is no known life on Mars it suggests rapid changes in planetary climates could be natural phenomena.

(visit the link for the full news article)



Related News Links:
www.timesonline.co.uk

I've been saying this from the start, I cant picture humans in less than 100 years destroy a planet with pollution.



If you study Earths past, you'll know there's been at least 4 major Ice Ages. (3 before man) Now just being curious, what happens after these Ice Ages? It gets warmer, the climate starts to change and its been reported that almost 70% of the world at one point in its brief history was tropical.

Technically speaking as long as the Greenlan and Antarctic ice sheets still exist, we're still in a Ice Age. Meaning Earth can get a lot hotter than it is right now.

I am however concerned of the effect us Humans can have on this natural occurrence. With the pollution we're dumping into the air each day, I cant help but wonder what reaction we're going to see from our actions.

Instead of debating weather or not global warming exists. Why aren't we funding specialists to research weather or not what we're doing now can manifest into some sort of disease (Cancer) or other potentially disastrous outbreak when our climate does change to record highs.

Originally posted by supercheetah
If the sun were truly responsible for global warming, one would think that we'd be able to observe something on that barren surface that would be notable, but no one's talking about it.

No, in order for there to be Climate Change, or warming/cooling planets must have an atmosphere thick enough to allow for such changes.

Originally posted by supercheetah
Yeah, the planet with runaway global warming...I'd think that if the sun were responsible, global warming would have an exponential effect there, but again, there has been nothing notable in that regards.

You mean changes like these?

Date: February 23, 1999
More on: Venus, Climate, Solar System, Global Warming, Earth Science, Weather

New Climate Modeling Of Venus May Hold Clues To Earth's Future
Science Daily — New computer models that indicate the climate of Venus has wavered radically in its relatively recent past may prove valuable to scientists tracking Earth's changing climate, according to two University of Colorado at Boulder researchers.
........................
Despite the recent intrigue in Mars shown by the public, Venus actually is more Earth-like because it's the only other planet with a complex, evolving climate, said Mark Bullock and David Grinspoon of CU-Boulder's Laboratory for Atmospheric and Space Physics. Given the dynamic, rapid climate change that has occurred in Earth's history and the current impact of human activity, such computer models of the changing Venusian climate system may hold clues to Earth's future.

"Our model shows Venus has changed dynamically in the recent past," said Bullock. "Since Venus and Earth have a number of similarities, there are implications here for our own future." An article by Bullock and Grinspoon regarding global change on Venus appears in the March issue of Scientific American.

www.sciencedaily.com...

Initial Discoveries May Inspire Future Extra-Terrestrial Atmospheric Studies
Measurements to record the nightglow of Venus were carried out with the Keck telescope just before sunrise on November 20, 1999. Analysis of the resultant spectrum at the position of the oxygen green line showed strong emission from the terrestrial atmosphere and a comparable signal from Venus, with an intensity some 25 times greater than the upper limits set by the Venera results.

www.sri.com...

The Venera probes took it's measurements in 1975, so there has been a 2500% increase in the nightglow of Venus just before sunrise in 24 years.

Originally posted by supercheetah
So, a planet for which we know nothing of its seasons (well, actually, we know very little about in general), you decided that these things are due to global warming?

Saturn was approached and photographed twice before in 1980 and in 1981 and there was no detectable auroras in the poles. It was in 1995 that very bright auroras were photographed. That alone might not point to Climate Changes in Saturn, but there have been many other changes in that planet which actually shows us there is Climate Change there too.

WELLESLEY, Mass. - Saturn, one of the windiest planets, has recently had an unexpected and dramatic change in weather: its equatorial winds have subsided from a rapid 1700 km/hr during the Voyager spacecraft flybys in 1980-81 to a modest 990 km/hr from 1996 to 2002. This slow-down in the winds has been detected by a Spanish-American team of scientists, including Richard French of Wellesley College in Massachusetts, who report their findings in the June 5 issue of the journal, Nature. (5 June 2003, Vol. 423, pp. 623-625)

www.wellesley.edu...

Originally posted by supercheetah
Just what point were you trying to make?

I am pretty certain I made a point that since some planets have a longer orbital period, and their climate changes during these periods there is no way to know for certain whether those changes are just fluctuations due to the long orbit of some planets, or caused by Climate Change. But that is only so for some planets.

It is too much of a coincidence that at the same time that the Sun's output and the number of sunspots has increase in the 20th century more than for the past 1,000-8,000 years, and that the Earth and other planets are also changing dramatically their weather patterns, yet some want to claim there is no connection...

Originally posted by supercheetah
If the Sun were truly responsible for global warming on Pluto, we'd be toast.

Not true, as I said distance is not the only factor that affect temperature changes produced by the Sun.

Originally posted by supercheetah
Heck, if the Sun were truly responsible global warming on the outer planets, we'd be in a lot worse shape.

Not so, changes in the sun will affect all planets, yes distance does have something to do with changes seen, but also what type of atmosphere the planet has, affects temperature and climate in that planet.

As a matter of fact if the Earth had the atmosphere of the Earth's moon, the Earth would be 33C cooler than it is now.

[edit on 1-5-2007 by Muaddib]

Pollution is not natural, it shouldn't take a concept like global warming in our collective consciousness to make us stop pollution. '' it should be a given''

Originally posted by selfless
Pollution is not natural, it shouldn't take a concept like global warming in our collective consciousness to make us stop pollution. '' it should be a given''

And CO2 is not really a pollutant, and neither does it increase temperatures as much as some want to claim. In other planet's atmospheres where CO2 is the main gas, the heat trapping capacity of CO2 is large, such as in Mars (95% CO2 in the atmosphere) and Venus (97% CO2 in the atmosphere)

But on Earth (0.038% CO2 in the atmosphere even with anthropogenic CO2) even a doubling of CO2 levels would not increase temperatures in Earth more than 0.014 degrees Celsius, and CO2 levels have not doubled, water vapor is a more significant greenhouse gas than CO2, it traps more than twice the amount of heat than CO2 and it exists in much larger quantities than CO2.

Earth has had more CO2 than at present yet it didn't provoke "runaway global warming".

[edit on 1-5-2007 by Muaddib]