Walking away from God

Originally posted by LeenBekkemaa
All what is said is based upon the idea of God, not upon the texts themselves, trying to cover it up with saying the ways aren't understandable and stuff.

If that idea would be false, then all those self-thought-up coverups don't save your life, only the reality as is written is then true, not the ideas humans have.

The idea of ''God has a reason for killing'' doesn't work anymore then for the Apocalypse, but you will see.

I agree. If god is supposed to be so powerful, why would he have to wipe the earth clean of all humans, if he could just wave his all powerful hand and fix everything with a snap of his fingers? It doesn't make sense. Wouldn't god also be in control of time? Why not just turn the clock back a bit and change the outcome, if he can't just fix it? There has never been any logic in the story, period. We seem to have this all powerful god, who isn't really all powerful.

[Edited on 1-4-2004 by Satyr]

And if God wouldn't be almighty then the story would make sense. And then the coverups don't help anymore, because where would then be the idea ''he killed 1/3th of the angels but he was almighty so he would know what to do'', where would that idea be then? Where would the justification of killing the Egyptians be, the flood? Where would all those justifications be if he turns out to be not almighty?

Then the umbrella wouldn't protect menkind from the so-called bitter rain. Just like God says it is, the Apocalypse.

But oke, till then people will still say ''he knows what he does'' and therefore letting them be killed for nothing.

This idea of walking away from God is inconceivable to me. In my case, having direct proof of this spiritual assistance called God has made it so.

When you really need help & request it in a truthful, honest way (this is really an underestimation because it's more heartfelt than can be explained), assistance is received.

But of course the true meaning & understanding of this is difficult to explain. Unless you experience it yourself, you can only grasp it intellectually or have faith.

why are we walking away from God.

I dont believe many people are , but they surely are walking away from organised religions. Maybe it coincides with the fact that the powers that be are no longer are allowed to go round killing people if they dont belive what Mr Priest is telling them. The Church or religous fanatism has been responsible for some of the most evil periods in History, purely on one or a group of men's say so. remember the Inquisition, the witch burning, the flat earth etc etc. In the UK the predominant religion is the Church of England... that lovely religion which was invented by King Henry VIII because he couldnt get his own way with the Catholic Church,

O well must be OK cause it was all in the name of God.

Originally posted by Questor
This idea of walking away from God is inconceivable to me. In my case, having direct proof of this spiritual assistance called God has made it so.

When you really need help & request it in a truthful, honest way (this is really an underestimation because it's more heartfelt than can be explained), assistance is received.

But of course the true meaning & understanding of this is difficult to explain. Unless you experience it yourself, you can only grasp it intellectually or have faith.

What I had originally wrote here in reference to your reply laid heavily on my conscious.

Best of luck in your journey Questor
Mags





[Edited on 1/8/04 by magestica]

I agree most people are not getting satisfied with the religions or 'the middle man'.

What I'm about to say might make people upset because they think I am downgrading who christ was. I am not. He was perfect, just not saving us the way the church would have you think. He is the best example of what we could be.

The church/institution is saying that God made inherently imperfect beings, then have demanded of them to be perfect, or face damnation. They are saying then that, somewhere several thousand years into the world's experience, God relented, saying that from then on you didn't necessarily have to be good, you simply had to feel bad when you were not being good, and accept as your savior the One Being who could always be perfect, thus satisfying God's hunger for perfection. They are saying that His Son- the One Perfect One- has saved you from your own imperfection- the imperfection God gave us.

In other words, God's Son has saved you from what His Father did. This is how many people say God has set it up. Now is this mocking God I ask? Many people are starting to see that following the religion is not giving them the quench they thirst for.

The religionists would have you believe that God created you as less than Who He Is so that you could have the chance to become as Who He Is, working against all odds- and , I might add, against every natural tendency He is supposed to have given you.

Among these so-called tendencies is the tendency to sin. You are taught that you were born in sin, that you will die in sin, and that to sin is you nature. One religion even teaches you that you can do nothing about this. Your own actions are irrelevant and meaningless. It is arrogant to think that by some action of yours you can "get to heaven". There is only one way to heaven (salvation) and that is through no undertaking of your own, but through the grace granted you by God through acceptance of His Son as your intermediary.

Once this is done you are "saved". Until it is done, nothing that you do- not the life you live, not the choices you make, not anything you undertake of your own will in an effort to improve yourself or render you worthy- has any effect, bears any influence. You are incapable of rendering yourself worthy, because you are inherently unworthy. You were created that way they say.

I'm telling you, You Are Worthy to be like God. Raise your conscience to His level, but religionist insist you must do as they say or you will be damned. One very good book I have come to understand more of this is... conversations with God. Start with book 1-3, then try friendship with God, new revelations, c.w.God series. Give it a chance and see if there is any better explanation out there.

Life cannot be trusted as whole anywhere I'm sad to say. You can look within and be told what is of God and not though. I have been shown this on my adventure and I thought I'd share. Jesus really did mean, did ye not know that ye are gods? and the kingdom of God is within you. We are all individuates of the One that Is. God's body is us and Jesus.

If you like David Icke, his latest book, "Tales from the Time Loop" has the same Oneness idea of what are we doing here in a sense. He said, it's as if there was this river of Oneness in the beginning. In this one part of the river, formed a whirlpool. The densest part of the whirlpool funnel (the bottom) is where we believe to be the five sense world. The dense reality we have. As you go up to the corners away from the dense part, you get the spirit world, other dimensions, etc. One day this whirlpool will stop and it will be a river of Oneness. He didn't say that exactly, but something relative.

Getting back to religion... why do most people feel obligation to go? Meaning not feeling like going, but should go. You cannot believe in an obligation-less relationship because you cannot accept who and what you really are. You call a life of complete freedom "spiritual anarchy." I call it God's great promise. It is only within the context of this promise that God's great plan can be completed. You have no obligation, in relationship. You have only opportunity.
Opportunity, not obligation, is the cornerstone of religion, the basis of all spirituality. So long as you see it the other way around, you will have missed the point.

Relationship to God and ALL things(same thing) - your relationship to all things- was created as your perfect tool in the work of the soul. That is why all human relationships are sacred ground. It is why every personal relationship is holy.

In this, many churches have it right. Marriage is a sacrament. But not because of its sacred obligations. Rather, because of its unequalled opportunity.

Never do anything in relationship out of a sense of obligation. Do whatever you do out of a sense of the glorious opportunity your relationship affords you to decide, and to be, Who You Really Are.

If you want to understand why I'm saying some things I say, read on:

www.belowtopsecret.com...



[Edited on 1-7-04 by pacman]

Thanks magestica.

To the others:
Just to clarify, my reference to the spiritual being called God has nothing to do with religion or the bible or even Jesus.

I just know that there is this omnipresent being out there that has proven it's existence to me at one time when it was most needed. I prefer to reference it as God.

It is not surprising that many other people experience the same thing in their times of crisis. They may refer to the experience differently. But the common denominator is the same, a higher spiritual being was involved.

Originally posted by nathraq
Yes, I also believe that God, no matter who he/she is to you, or what you call him/her, protects and watches over us.

Protects????

Then he/she/it must of taken off for vactation during the Holocaust, World War 1, WW2, Korea, Vietnam, 9/11/01,,,,etc. We protect ourselves, not a pressence from "above the clouds".

Originally posted by RANT
Here's a kicky little site debating Free Will versus PREDESTINATION: www.geocities.com...

Hard for me to even think of why one might turn from an all powerful God, unless it was part of the plan all along.

Excellent question and one of the few unresolved great issues I think.

It appears to me that choosing the dark side is in the end a losing proposition unless you believe that your side will prevail against god. But Satan knows it cannot run the universe and really has no desire to win but only desires to fight and be a thorn in the side of creation (chaos cannot produce order of itself).

Thus why are their those aligned with the dark? They exist, maybe they have to exist but would any rational entity really choose this?

and thats assuming that Satan was the baddie.. as said in an earlier post its been God as told in the bible or by his followers in his name that have perpatrated most of the evil this world has ever seen.

Originally posted by Ozzie
and thats assuming that Satan was the baddie.. as said in an earlier post its been God as told in the bible or by his followers in his name that have perpatrated most of the evil this world has ever seen.

What you define as evil are killing of person/people *by* other persons/people. God is not killing these people. And if that is the case, then why is God getting the blame?

You and I are in no position or state of mind to EVER know why God 'may' allow things to happen, especially when 'we' may view the happenings as bad/horrible/evil.

Now maybe it can be understood exactly WHY we should fear our Father in Heaven-because He is the power of all things/people, therefore He can wipe away this entire planet if He 'thinks' it is for the best now can't He.

Satan is the one roaming the earth, why doesn't he get accused of causing "evil" to occur??

*btw* I used your reply in quotes as it was the last reply that accuses and questions God.


Mags

Why do the really good questions always go completely ignored?

If god is supposed to be so powerful, why would he have to wipe the earth clean of all humans, if he could just wave his all powerful hand and fix everything with a snap of his fingers? It doesn't make sense. Wouldn't god also be in control of time? Why not just turn the clock back a bit and change the outcome, if he can't just fix it?

I'm still waiting. *tapping foot*

What you define as evil are killing of person/people *by* other persons/people. God is not killing these people. And if that is the case, then why is God getting the blame?

so the flood and Noah was an accident then... left his bathwater tap on or something did he.... and before you say the people were evil scumbags and needed to be taught a lesson, remember all the innocent children slaughtered by this non evil being

You and I are in no position or state of mind to EVER know why God 'may' allow things to happen, especially when 'we' may view the happenings as bad/horrible/evil.

its not a case of allow it to happen.. he was the perpertrator.. he did it. So much for forgive your enemy. and forgive them who tresspass against us

Now maybe it can be understood exactly WHY we should fear our Father in Heaven-because He is the power of all things/people, therefore He can wipe away this entire planet if He 'thinks' it is for the best now can't He.

think he tried didnt he.?

Satan is the one roaming the earth, why doesn't he get accused of causing "evil" to occur??

maybe as in Bart simpson's language "because he didnt do it"

*btw* I used your reply in quotes as it was the last reply that accuses and questions God


no worries

If god is supposed to be so powerful, why would he have to wipe the earth clean of all humans, if he could just wave his all powerful hand and fix everything with a snap of his fingers? It doesn't make sense. Wouldn't god also be in control of time? Why not just turn the clock back a bit and change the outcome, if he can't just fix it?

I could look at the question and change it.
"If people are supposed to be so powerful(and believe me we can do anything WE set out to do), why would we have to wipe the earth clean of each other, if we could just wave our all powerful hand and fix everything with a snap of our mind, body, and soul." Now the mind could think for once on depleting our problems, the body do the construction in rehabilitating that, and if we could just listen to our soul. That's an answer.

For one thing, if we don't know that their is a God out there, then we must look to ourselves for our world. If one would have a ounce of intuition of an almighty God out there, then why must we say it's His problem. Maybe it's because we're told He's an angry, jealous, condemning God. Who are we told this? By our past. Anyone we might have heard this or seen this from.

Life can be confusing sometimes. Don't think too much on it. The answer will come if you want it to. The God I know doesn't think like we do. We believe we were created in His image. Well we are and it is our soul, it's light as He is. Religion and it's explanation is a description of what man believes his God to be like. We think He's jealous, so we may be. Wrathful, so we may be. We have created Him in our image of who we think we are. Can you see? Are we demanding from God when we don't have all the answers? Undeniably we do. We just look elsewhere, outside the body, for the answers. This statement has meaning multifold. God is not and shall never be seperate from us. Should we want to or will to, we can be seperate from Him. Not only is He always there for us, He told us about Free Will. We have the 'right' to choose what we create. We don't even have to do anything. In doing nothing you still had a choice. The law of cause or effect says alot. Are we our 'cause' in Life or 'effect' in it. Are we affected leaving out any responsibility for ourselves like a denial, or are you the CAUSE taking full responsiblity for ourselves and the environment. You or I are not our bodies and alot of people get 'comfy' with their truth of ignorance. The statement above is multifold because also, if God is not seperate from us then every physical, emotional, transdimensional experience one might have is 'part' of God. He is it ALL. He's is like a rock. It looks singular from a distance(people are looking as God, distant/seperate), but when you get up close to it with a microscope you see it is moving. It has many parts. The universe is the parts of Him. We have been 'told' He's seperate, He's jealous, He's blah, blah, blah. I don't care to know what other people say about Him anymore. Their not his friend. I'm putting this in terms one might relate to, He's there for you too. Just why you can't hear him in whatever bazillion ways he speaks to you personally? It is a matter of choice. We can't hear God talk if we're always doing the talking. Assuming we know who somebody is, before we meet them. You know yourSelf better than anybody else on this planet. Why not use that tool to Look inside with the messages you are recieving? Try to love yourSelf with understanding that is not in your conscienceness at the moment. Yes, whatever way you can grasp. If your not grasping your not recieving. I don't expect you to look as if you were just looking at a shopping window. Because you might not be in the right frame of mind. You have the power, the glory, the Life if you take it. The problem is we were taught incorrectly. Never assume anything. It's best to say do nothing and it will come to you. As a matter of fact, I don't expect anything from you. You have free will. I don't want you to 'do' anything. Because, human 'beings' have been trying to solve problems at the "doingness" level for a long time, without much success. That's because true change is always made at the level of "being" not "doing". Oh, we have made cerain discoveries, all right, and we've advanced our technologies, and so, in some ways, we've made our lives easier- but it's not clear whether we've made them better. And on the larger issues of principle, we have made very slow progress. We are facing many of the same problems of principle that we've faced for centuries on this planet. Our idea that Earth exists from the exploitaion of the dominant species is a good example. We clearly will not change what you are doing around that until you change how you are being. We have to change our idea about who we are in relationship to our environment and everything in it before we will every act differently. It is a matter of consciousness. And we have to raise consciousness before you can change consciousness.

How can we do that? Most people repress their feelings and don't even know it. Stop being quiet about your feelings. Speak up. Raise a ruckus. Raise the issues. You might even raise some collective consciousness. The world is waking up. Our paradigm is shifting. The world is changing right in front of your eyes.
I just want you to know their is a God. This God, that if we look down deeply is not our problemsolver in the way you might think. We are creatures/body, created by the Creator, that create. That create part at the end is what we do. We create our experience. God's will IS our will. We come first, yet if we do not know what we are doing our will is still created. This is why bad things happen. Look at Hitler. Most people say it was all his fault. A feeling of seperateness. The world consciencesness allowed it. People didn't solve the problem until 7 years later. I'm not blaming anyone here, for ignorance IS bliss. Let's take it to a smaller factor than the world. Germany and Hitler believed what they were doing was for the betterment of themselves. I don't blame them we've all been wrong when we thought we were right. But where were the truthsayers when the people of Germany needed them? Someone to stand up and say, wake up people this is not what works. Do you see what I'm saying? We all have choices and they do have consequences. When people tend to go with what other people think because they don't want to feel seperate from their surroundings, they are making their surroundings choices. Not their purified, unEFFECTed, own belief. Look inside without distractions and you will find the Truth.


[Edited on 1-8-04 by pacman]

Holy macerole! All that, and no answer? You should be a politician.