Respect

I love ATS. I'm here all the time, and I've learned a lot on this site. I've made some great friendships, and there are some great people on here.

That being said, there has been a significant lack of respect for opposing viewpoints on the boards lately. I took a break for a few months while I was on the road, came back, and found out the hard way that god forbid you have a differing viewpoint.

I backed out of 9/11 threads, mostly because it's the same arguments, and I'm tired of being told I'm stupid, a disinfo agent, sheeple, etc. When I said I was done with them, I was told I can't take the heat among other things. I just read another thread where a person said something to the effect of "anyone who believes the official story still is delusional, an idiot, or a disinformation agent." I have seen two other people who have made excellent posts in 9/11 get so frustrated they left the forum as well.

And it's not just 9/11. I can understand that 9/11 is a heated topic, and tempers will flare. But another thread recently, I was asked a question and told "never mind, I don't really care what you say, because I don't believe what you say."

I'm not asking for everyone to suddenly get along, and I'm just as guilty as the next person of losing my temper and going off on someone who made me mad. But it would be nice to at least have a little respect for a person that has opposing views as we do. You may completely disagree with what someone says, and think they're an idiot, but that's your opinion, and calling them an idiot, or sheeple, or whatever doesn't get us anywhere, except into more name calling, and less respect for each other.

Zaphod,

I too have seen this, but I believe it is the fear of having to defend their opinion..

No one likes being wrong and when you present a sound argument or ask a difficult question, the "hackles" go up and they strike out instead of allow the revelation and the truth to come out....

Just my opinion of course....

Semper

Its why I don't do more than drop comments here and there. I might point out some fallacies in arguments, or take advantage of an odd sentence to make a joke....but serious discussion, with some give and take? Very rare.

Originally posted by semperfortis
I too have seen this, but I believe it is the fear of having to defend their opinion..

I think that statement is dead on. Any other possibility would cause their world view to waver, so they either ignore the questions, or immediately toss a label on you and commence flaming.

I agree. I've seen more and more disrespectful "attacks" as of late. It's ashame. As many have seen I'm not afraid to dive into the most controversial of subjects, and certainly am not afraid to go head to head with another who has an opposing view. That being said, I like to think that I've always maintained a respectable decorum. There are many members here who I've "jousted" with who have been true class acts, there are a FEW who have not been. I believe that it is the minority of members who act disrespectful.
I think Semp hit it right on the money.

Agreed.

Respect, in some areas of ATS, has gone out the window. ATS does have a tradition, especially at PTS, of flame wars and mud fighting. But we need to remember that ATS is a discussion board, not project mayhem or a fight club.

look at it this way, it means the they have no answer for your post. Backed into a corner, with no answer to a question, they lash out with name calling.

It happens in all the threads. You do your best to prove your theory or disprove your theory and the person on the other side of the fence, clearly unable to respond with any form of an argument that might refute your comments, will call you a psyop or disinfo agent or a sheeple or a moron for believing what you believe. What they are really saying is "I cannot answer that response with a response that merits any thought because I have none. You have posted something that cannot be refuted so I will call you names instead."


Rather than be bothered by the name calling or lack of respect, put another notch in your belt and consider it a small victory.

Originally posted by Crakeur

It happens in all the threads. You do your best to prove your theory or disprove your theory and the person on the other side of the fence, clearly unable to respond with any form of an argument that might refute your comments, will call you a psyop or disinfo agent or a sheeple or a moron for believing what you believe. What they are really saying is "I cannot answer that response with a response that merits any thought because I have none. You have posted something that cannot be refuted so I will call you names instead."

Too bad the censor can't be programmed to insert that line whenever a name is called in debate.

I totally agree with you Zaph. Sad thing is it's an election year and I fear that it's only going to get worse. Maybe a few of those few will read this and get the point.

It has been my experience, that respect is earned by not being patronizing, dismissive or condescending.

If you feel you are not getting the respect you deserve then check to
see if you might be guilty of any of the things I mentioned.

Chances are that probably all three apply.

I plead guilty on all three counts, BTW.
I also have learned to be not quite so sensitive.

[edit on 27-4-2007 by whaaa]

Thankyou so much for this post, I was ready to leave ats yesterday as I have been doing my best to get to know some of you and have been tagged . Let me say that I am a lonely type person and get no real opportunity to talk with anyone other than my always tired kind of simple husband, my aunt with alzheimers and my 4 children under age 11.I live way out in the country and farm. I will be honest I made a crap load of not very well thought out posts so that I could make it to the 200 level and begin to chat with you all. Well made it yesterday and checked into all of the rooms that you can get into at the lower levels and never all day or night found anyone there. What a let down. I am not asking you to fill a void, and I know many will either love me or hate me when or if you get to know me, but I have lived a very rich and colored past and am blessed with special abilities and talents that just might fit in with some here on ats. Also and this is important, when someone like me makes a post or comment I notice that it is not addressed but then a while later I see it brought up as if it is someone else brought it to the table. I may not be as literate as some of you, I have alot of gramical errors and my speech is not so refined as many of you, but I just cant help that, I have a hard time expressing what I mean to say sometimes. But I am not an uninformed idiot. Thankyou to any and all that would have taken the time to respectfully read this post.

Originally posted by whaaa
If you feel you are not getting the respect you deserve then check to
see if you might be guilty of any of the things I mentioned.

[EXAMPLE]Don't be so naive whaaa....everybody knows I deserve huge respect. Why can't you see that?[/EXAMPLE]

I'm willing to bet, without the obvious signs of that being an example, you'd read that and think.....????...... You wonder how to respond, because in the back of your mind your thinking...I'm pretty sure my post was thoughtful, mature, and worthy of some pondering.... (It is, of course)

It gets discouraging. And worse, it causes one to commit the errors you listed in your post. Who isn't guilty of those mistakes from time to time? I can't cast that first stone.

Myself, I don't demand respect, nor do I particularly feel that I deserve any somehow. Let's face it, most of my jokes are unfathomably stupid. What I want is honest discourse without the ad hominem attacks, fallacious arguments, and flawed logic, all masquerading as intellect.

[EXAMPLE]You simply don't understand the concept[/EXAMPLE].

[MORE EXAMPLE]Oh yeah? I got a concept for ya'!!! Yo' momma.......[/MORE EXAMPLE]

Originally posted by antar
my 4 children under age 11.

Finally, someone who may get my jokes!!! Yay!!!

I may not be as literate as some of you, I have alot of gramical errors and my speech is not so refined as many of you, but I just cant help that, I have a hard time expressing what I mean to say sometimes.

I think you expressed yourself just fine. Keep posting, you may surprise yourself. I happen to think you're just as literate as most of the members.

[edit on 27-4-2007 by MrPenny]

Originally posted by antar
Thankyou so much for this post, I was ready to leave ats yesterday as I have been doing my best to get to know some of you and have been tagged .

Don't give up yet. It takes some time to work yourself into the mix. I know it can be frustrating when you're new. Just keep participating and you'll find your niche.

And this brings up a point (not directing this to you, at all, antar).

Sometimes people would rather have negative attention than no attention. If you have kids, you know what I'm talking about. I think there are times when a member resorts to flame type behavior just to get some acknowledgement. Just a "hey, I'm HERE dammit" deal.

I've seen that more than once and I'm not sure what the answer is. Most of us know to not feed a troll, but it almost becomes a vicious circle.

Just a thought.

[Edit for typo]


[edit on 4/27/2007 by yeahright]

Thankyou guys, it is good to know that there is compassion and understanding here on the forum. Now I am actually posting this so that it does not end up in the bottom of the pile, and I hope that more people here will express themselves and explain "Why" they are the way they are to people. After all we are here to fight ignorance.

Keep trying antar, it's just a matter of time. You'll find the right folks to talk to.

Whaaa, I've always tried to be respectful of other members, and post the best quality posts that I can, and in some forums there is a great amount of respect, and the members never resort to personal attacks, and there's a great give and take, and in other forums it immediately resorts to "You sheeple! Why can't you see I'm right!" after the first post.

Yes there have been times when I'm guilty of not showing respect to other members, but I'm not talking about respect to ME individually, but the simple respect of reading other views, and having a civil discussion about them without deciding that since that person has different views, they're automatically an idiot, or retarded or whatever.

[edit on 4/27/2007 by Zaphod58]

Respect is earned.

Having said that, it doesn't take much effort to both earn it and give it. I've had numerous rancerous exchanges with members, but usually my exchanges are polite and to the point. An example of this would be my exchanges with donwhite, I don't think we've ever agreed on an issue. He says the sky is blue, I'd disagree just on general principle , "No don, the sky is not blue, its pale chartrues." We'll go round and round a couple of times, then agree to disagree, and move on.

It's easy to do. Respect and courtesy, all in one.

I have several members that I'll do the same with on here too. But the respect I'm talking about isn't the individual respect, it's the common courtesy that I have the right to my views without immediately being labeled a sheeple, or an idiot, or whatever just because my views differ from yours. I think that everyone is entitled to their views, and they don't have to agree with mine, but lately on the boards it's an all or nothing type situation. Either you agree with them, or without someone with a differing view even replying people are calling names. When I first joined ATS there was some name calling, but it was generally limited to individuals, like in your example seagull, but over time it has become groups. Soon everyone with a different view will be chased off and the only "discussion" will be among people of the same mindset congratulating themselves on "proving" they were right about whatever it was they were supposed to be "discussing".

You are refering to the blanket assumption on the part of some herein, that all of us who dare to disagree with aspects of whatever conspiracy is flavor of the day are brainwashed rightwing christian fundementalists? Or for that matter, leftwing antiamerican pinko communists?

Having at one time or another been called both, or at least something resembling both; I can relate totally. It does get old, especially when I usually give the opposing view the respect and curtousey of at least reading their views.

That's exactly what it is. I've had some wonderful discussions with people that completely disagreed with me, but we never resorted to "You're a complete idiot just because you believe that!" We respected the others opinion, and their RIGHT to that opinion. I guess I just fail to understand why others can't do the same.

Agreed. I too have noticed this, especially among newer members. It truly brings the discussion down, any chance collaboration is pretty much destroyed. Mods are more active than ever to stay on top of it.. but alot slips through. I blame it on the influx of new members.