demons

demons,

i do not have time to write up my ideology on demons yet, but i feel i should start a topic about it.

demons, i myself, am not a religious person. im myself, but i do follow a philosophy, laVeyan satanism, it has no mention of "evil", and it doesnt believe in god or satan, its a PHILOSOPHY, a way of life, called satanism, purely because it sems to go against christian beliefs, in a sense, but less about that.

much to the contrare of laVeyan satanism, i personally believe in the possiblity of demons, and maybe angels, without there being a god, or satan.

but i would like to hear your views on the subject of angels and demons, and where they come from, you know.

it would be greatly appreciated. when i have the time i will share mine.

First I will say that I am not a religious person in any traditional sense, but I am an extremely spiritual person, and I am a Christian. Albeit your bible beaters would say otherwise about me I am sure.

You can not really entertain the idea of angels and demons without being a spiritual person. I am not sure but it does not sound like you are. Even the idea of positive/ negative entities (the same as the Christian idea of angels and demons) is hard to reconcile without spirituality. A "moral" philosophy does not include spiritual beliefs, although one generally guides and influences the other.

LaVey is a bit of a hypocrite in my opinion and I think most modern Satanists know it; the same way Thelemites often feel a bit of shame when their "religion" is automatically associated solely with the life and teachings of Crowley. I am certainly no expert on modern Satanism as I find it not that interesting and paradoxical with my own beliefs but LaVey was a sensationalist fool who put out alot of inane ideas that have been used to justify anything one wishes. That's no system of morality, philosophy, spirituaity; whatever you would like to call it. Thus I find it irreconcilable that a LaVey'n Satanist could believe in the existence of Angelic and Demonic entities despite LaVeys writings.

But like I said I do not know much about modern Satanism and I am curious as well to here other, more knowledgeable, opinions. (Or simply the opinions of other Satanists if they are on ATS, more knowledgeable waits to be determined.)

Hmmm Demons.. Are they a state of mind? Or are they really fallen Angels? Are demons you and me, or are they simply something that reflects what we consider evil?
I know demons are shown as scary, evil mean looking charaters.. But honestly I would think a demon would take the form of a holy rolling bible thumper.. who only thinks their way is the way to get into "heaven"
Fred Phelps and family, Bush and family.. Many many more.. But these are demons to me.. Prehaps I am the demon to you...
What seems evil to one, might seem rightous and good to another..
Thanks for the thread spyrolot, I will wait to see what you have to say more about this topic before I go on any further..

I'm not a Christian and usually I prefer using the term spirit or entity to refer to non-corporeal beings (yes, I do believe they exist), but there are some that like (and some fit the stereotypes) the definition of demons/angels and so I usually end up calling them that, specially the ones that answer for Jewish/Christian demonic/angelic names, but outside that I sometimes use the word demon, or daemon, for spirit/entity, and angel for messenger (of anything) and sometimes as entity/spirit too... So I usually use the term demon/angel to respect the entity, the same with other terms as guides, "saints" (some non-human ones like this classification), guardian, watcher, etc.

But I don't consider demons inherently evil/chaotic and angels inherently good/orderly, though as I said, some fit the stereotype (or like it, I dunno)

[edit on 23-4-2007 by Raziel89]

As far as I'm concerned, the only hell and heaven that exist are here on this earth for us to find in our own lives. Therefore, the only demons and angels that exist are other people.

Originally posted by spyrolot
much to the contrare of laVeyan satanism, i personally believe in the possiblity of demons, and maybe angels, without there being a god, or satan.

but i would like to hear your views on the subject of angels and demons, and where they come from, you know.

it would be greatly appreciated. when i have the time i will share mine.

Why the [expletive] would you believe in something so stupid? Do you want to believe for the pure sake of entertainment? Play a role-playing game or something where you can make pretend freely, but leave such crap out of your perception of reality.

Vlad

Originally posted by spyrolot
but i would like to hear your views on the subject of angels and demons, and where they come from, you know.

Basically angels, demons, spirits etc... are all parts of your unconscious mind. Really it's quite close to what Carl Jung called the shadow.

When I evoke lets say a Goetic demon, I'm not calling on some demon who lives in hell.. What I'm doing is basically focusing on the part of the unconscious that the demon represents.

When I put on my robes and enter the ritual space, I'm preparing my mind to access the unconscious, when I light the incense that relates to the demon, the smell uhmmm 'activates' part of the unconscious that the demon represents, when I see the sigil of the demon my sense of sight activates the part of the unconscious that the demon represents, when I start to evoke it I'm verbally (and via hearing) activating the part of the unconscious that the demon represents, and on and on.

When that part of your unconscious gets activated enough you will start to perceive the demon.. it might be visual, or auditory, or you might just "know" something there. At that time you can tell the demon what you wanted it to do.

Oh and when I say they are parts of the unconscious I don't mean they are not "real". They are very real and in many respects they are independent of your mind while at the same time they are 100% part of your mind. ick never mind I don't think I did a good job explaining that bit

Well that is probably more than anyone wanted to know but tough.. I felt like typing :p

[edit on 4/25/2007 by Cug]

On the concept of demons and angels being non corporeal supernatural entities with religious over and undertones then my answer has to be a resounding NO.
However I kind of agree with Cug that demons are created in the mind although I dont fully agree with them being independant and 100% our creation - but in saying that hallucinogenic drugs can cause 'independant' entities plus be 100% ours, so thats probably where my explanation would lie.
I also like MajorMalfunctions explanation that we are all angels and demons depending on the perceiver.


G

In Judeo-Christian theology, demons are fallen angels that followed Lucifer after his failed rebellion against God.

Its best to not concentrate on them.