I can't stand the bible now

first let me preface this that i've read the bible twice through, cover to cover (minus the indexes and random stuff thrown into the back as reference). i read through the bible the first time to strengthen my established christian faith, but it had the exact opposite effect.

a year later i read the book a second time as a buddhist seeking to expand his mind.

now i'm an atheist, i started to read the koran because i simply hadn't read it before, so i decided to give the bible a second chance. i couldn't stand it.
the book seems so ridiculous and intolerable now.

so i ask christians and hebrews, what redeems your religious text from the rampant bigotry, sexism, absurdity, slavery, violence, inequity, and sheer ridiculousness of the book? not as a religious text, but simply as a piece of text.

don't get me wrong, i'm not saying the book is 100% bad, but it does seem like the bad stuff seems to outweigh the good stuff.

madnesssinmysoul,

I've been an atheist since leaving The Church about 8 years ago.

The bible is 100% bad. It's not historical. It's heavily embellished, biased, self-contradictory, and blatantly false. Where is the corroboration for the Bible? Destroyed. Other documents would provide ways to believe that don't involve following the leader. Besides, the Bible is an unquestionable authority, so there is no need for corroboration.

The parables of Jesus are a deceit. Doing good and morality are original intents, not life lessons. The problem with Christians is that they either suppress or lack completely intended morality and substitute it with the false dictated morality of the Bible. That is why they claim morality only comes from God and non-believers are immoral. Wrong definition.

Christianity subsists on a whole language of deceit where ordinary words having completely different meanings.

In the beginning, I used the Bible to try to convince Christians that it was silly nonsense, but after many non-successes, I've given up trying to penetrate the brainwashing. I rarely touch the Bible now. It provides nothing of value for me or to help convince Christians. Even to use the Bible to talk to Christians makes them think that I think it has some value.

Christians always run away or get protection from moderators when they have no explanations for their false beliefs. They are wretched rats who run from the light while claiming to follow The Light. Wrong definition.

It is brainwashing exactly and nothing else. One thing I am certain of. While I was a Christian I did not act according to my pure self, it was always through the filter of "Christlikeness".

If you are looking for something worthy to be believed look around you. Observation of the real world is an enlightening experience. Science is not the sterile empty nonsense Christians portray it as. When I think of the vastness and complexity of the real universe, I am amazed. Then some stupid Christian brings up his "god".

Look up the Barber Paradox. God could not create himself because it would first require that he does not exist.

Columbus

well, i never said it was 50/50 good bad, i was actually saying that there are some valuable lessons... even though those lessons are later contradicted. like "don't kill people" that's a good lesson... but then they proceed to kill people.

"don't steal"
"don't commit adultery"
"don't lie"
that's all good stuff

and just as a basis, i've been an atheist for about 2 years
i used to be an atheist in denial, calling myself a theravada buddhist

[edit on 4/12/07 by madnessinmysoul]

The Bible is 100% bad and here is why:

People already know killing is wrong. People already know the right and wrong of everything the church teaches, especially when what the church teaches is wrong.

The purpose of teaching these "morals" is in reality not to inform people who previously did not know and it is not to remind them either.

The writers and users of the Bible knew that people already know killing is wrong. Their intent is to brainwash. I was in the church and speak firsthand. This is true of ALL churches, especially the mainstream, not just the fundies.

In order to brainwash you have to immerse your subjects in a false reality. This can be done by constantly exposing people to extremely violent images, playing low frequency sounds, or many other ways some of which the average church buildings actually incorporate.

The first stage is to erase or suppress the natural morality (free will), then program them with the new morality.

It is not wrong to kill because of any moral reason. It is wrong to kill because God Commands it. That is why they are called COMMANDMENTS. And if God should command you to kill, through his representative George W. Bush, he is merely giving another command, not contradicting himself. God merely issues the instructions GO and STOP. These are not rules or laws at all.

Therefore you see that morality is removed completely from the Bible. Killing is not about right or wrong, but about following God's Will and Commands.

And you see how anyone can be programmed to kill or commit suicide.

The easiest way to stop the suicide attacks is to undermine religious authority directly in those countries through DOUBT. Doubt is a powerful thing. It can stop a person from committing suicide.

(edited for grammar)

[edit on 12-4-2007 by Columbus]

Madness, I have watched you rant and rave over the bible for quite some time now. I personally feel you are struggling with it for the better. What I mean is that you aren't someone who wants to be told what to think and believe, which is a good thing.

My best advice I can give is to quit trying to read it as a historical document, and interpret it figuratively instead of literally. It requires an understanding that is hidden, due to the fact that it describes a salvation of mankind based on faith, which means even its testimony has to appear flawed.

There is no other way around this, but within the text of the book is a spiritual message which cannot be "known" by just reading the words to ones self or memorizing what the bible says.

There is quite a bit of scriptural references made by Jesus in the NT alluding to this fact. He describes people seeing, but not seeing. He says people will hear, but not hear. He talks of two different things here, which should make you look a little further with spiritual eyes and ears.

I know it is difficult for someone who isn't familiar with what spirituality actually is, but my only suggestion would be to study Jesus' parables and their meanings. Some of them were revealed and others not, but according to Christ, they are worded the way they are to hide the truth from some people and not others. After much study, you will begin to extrapolate this concept to much of the bible and find that it becomes something greater than what it appears to be.

While I agree with why you feel the way you do, it is not anyone elses fault nor your own. You either find it or you don't and eventually you come to understand that the truth finds you and not the other way around.

I hope this helps.

Originally posted by ben91069
My best advice I can give is to quit trying to read it as a historical document, and interpret it figuratively instead of literally. It requires an understanding that is hidden, due to the fact that it describes a salvation of mankind based on faith, which means even its testimony has to appear flawed.

It is flawed. We all so wish Christians would interpret the Bible figuratively!

An immortal entity cannot die on the cross.

Eve was innocent according to the law, therefore there is no need of salvation, nor Christ! Hooray!

Originally posted by ben91069
I know it is difficult for someone who isn't familiar with what spirituality actually is, but my only suggestion would be to study Jesus' parables and their meanings.

Ben, you obviously haven't read my post. The parables are a brainwashing trick. People already know right and wrong. The parables condition you to accept changes to what you think is morally acceptable.

Originally posted by ben91069
...they are worded the way they are to hide the truth from some people and not others.

Things are hidden from you, Ben. The act of hiding is deceit, dishonesty. I am glad that more and more people are realizing it and leaving the church.

Originally posted by ben91069
...the truth finds you and not the other way around.

The truth is not a hunter. If you are trying to find something that you believe but is not true, you will always find it and claim The Truth found you because you can't prove it.

I despise unscrupulous people like Ben here.

Columbus

Originally posted by Columbus

I despise unscrupulous people like Ben here.

Columbus

You can despise me as much as you like. That is your entitlement and I hope it justifies your cause and adds many years to your life, truthfully.

You accuse me of not reading your post and rightly so. I was mainly responding to Madnessinmysoul, but somehow you thought I was addressing you personally.

You state you wish Christians would interpret the bible figuratively and I come along and tell a professed athiest to do just that and you go on the attack of saying that basically I am full of it.

Me thinks you are trying to convert me.

Originally posted by Columbus

People already know killing is wrong. People already know the right and wrong of everything the church teaches, especially when what the church teaches is wrong.

Sorry i'm a devout atheist (hehe), but even i cant agree with this.

People do not know that killing is wrong because it isnt/or wasnt, why, because it has not always been wrong, in fact killing other humans was the only way that the human race was able to evolve into what we are today.
Survival of the fittest.
Even now this base instinct is an intrinsic part of our nature, only our perceived civilised behaviour keeps us from committing these acts because we believe we are above it.
Only nature teaches us what is right and wrong, and we continue to get it wrong.
Not that i think we should all run around knockin' each other off, because i dont, i think we have now evolved to the point that we are able to adjust the rules to suit us.

Just my 2c.

Originally posted by mojo4sale
Not that i think we should all run around knockin' each other off, because i dont, i think we have now evolved to the point that we are able to adjust the rules to suit us.

Just my 2c.

People didn't run around killing people before religion was written. You forget that we are social animals and that cooperation is favored.

Soooo, how far back are you going? The Greeks, the Romans, the Egyptians, the Sumerians? Cro-magnons wiped out the Neaderthals apparently (if you believe in evolution).

War and killing is inherent in human nature. Ever read 'Lord Of The Flies'?

You cant stand the bible now??
I could never stand the thing anyway, on the first or every subsequent excursion into its fabled pages. Its just nonsense with a smattering of fact based drivel that has no bearing other than to tell a story (and not a very good one at that)

G

I believe I will chime in on this one:
For starters, if you look at the bible from a spiritual point of view, it makes a lot of sense. It is a good story, but it was put together as a common book that all could read by all, in an attempts to unify, although late attempts, to unify the Christian church. Besides there are other texts that are making their way into book stores that offer a broader view of Christianity on a whole.
Do not get me wrong, I am not stating Christanity is the correct path, but it is a path. Even there are different paths in all beliefs, and how you choose to follow them is what matters in the end.
Myself I have found that if you live the ideas, they really do work.
I do not believe that parables are brain washing, but how else would you describe a point to where anyone could understand it, no matter the language?

I was going to say something, but I don't feel like giving my pearls to swine anymore.

Remember the bible is a history book too. There are citys that only the bible talks about are being found today. And there are book lessons in the bible and bad. What you do with teaching so what inside of you .

Originally posted by DarkSide
People didn't run around killing people before religion was written. You forget that we are social animals and that cooperation is favored.

How did you reach this conclusion?
The human race has been killing one another over resources, territory and for fun since the year dot, well before we ever got around to inventing religion as another excuse to kill one another.

For those who do not believe in the Bible, I suggest that you write a better book. If you cannot fully equal it, you cannot fully criticize it. Present your best written document and see how many years it lasts as a publication.

The bible was not written by one person GreatTech, a better analogy would be to get a few hundred people over the course of a few centuries to write a new book.

Good point great tech and mojo. At least you can't be beheaded here for reading the darn thing...or not reading one of the religious texts.

It's great poetry -

Your mother was like a vine in a
vineyard
transplanted by the water
fruitful and full of branches...

Salt is good, but if salt has lost its taste, how shall it's saltness be restored? It is fit neither for the land nor the dunghill; men throw it away. He who has ears to hear, let him hear.

Maybe it's like the new age message of you create your own reality, or what some say of the Grays - a mirror.

How many grains of salt in the bible.

Frankly, I give atheists their due - why should man need a God to tell him he is good. Or to inspire him to be good. Perhaps not.
But there are things more powerful than even atheists, like the inexorable march of time....and Christ is a rarity - a good companion in suffering.


[edit on 13-4-2007 by clearwater]

If a man kills his neighbor to steal his stuff, he should expect his neighbor to kill him to steal his ill-begotten stuff. This is a deterent. It isn't morality. This is ethics. There is no implication that a human recognizes other humans as sentient beings worthy of respect.

Religion removes the natural respect for life. Basically, if you believe that when you die you will have an afterlife, your original life is suddenly worth a lot less.

It becomes therefore easy to kill because life is worthless anyway.

Originally posted by Columbus

People already know killing is wrong. People already know the right and wrong of everything the church teaches, especially when what the church teaches is wrong.

Why do you place blame on religions for life's monstrosities and in the same breath quote what you did above?

Explain?



[edit on 14-4-2007 by TheDuckster]