From Anonymous Posts: In regards to the thread about a worm like UFO!

Original Anonymous Post By: anon_106405
ATS really amazes me. A video is uploaded by a member (Jagman) of a tube like structure with a blinking strobe on it. Evidence is presented that the tube is more than likely a solar balloon with a small piece of foil reflecting light or a small strobe unit attached to one end. This highly plausible explanation is virtually ignored and ATS wants to examine the raw footage. Thats fine and dandy except that the examination is not going to reveal anything. Its not going to reveal who launched the balloon and its not going to reveal any wires or tricks. It is actually a huge waste of time.

For those ardent supporters of a "worm" theory, can I ask you a question? How can you believe this thing is a worm, and not a solar balloon? Let me humor you for a second. OK it's a worm. Now am I to believe this is a lifeform freefloating in the sky that happens to act just like a solar balloon would. If it is a worm, how does it float. How does it achieve flight. Why would a worm have a flashing strobe on it? Possibly related to lightning bugs? Has common sense fled from this forum?

Why do the staff glorify such ridiculous videos? Let me lay this out for you all. Either:

A] It's a solar balloon that someone released with an accessory to cause a flashing light. In others words, an easily explainable but interesting hoax.

B] It's a space worm that drifted to close to our atmosphere and got captured on video. Similar to a beached whale showing up on a California coastline.

'A' is plausible, makes sense, and is in the realm of reality.
'B' is farfetched, makes no sense, and is in the realm of fringe lunatic thinking.

I believe in UFO's. I believe people see flying saucers. I believe in Aliens. I do not believe in Space worms. And to think ATS promotes such trash is beyond comprehension. Shame on ATS for backing such ridiculous assumptions just for hits and members. ATS use to be a classy place. It's turned into a friggin' joke!

This "anonymous poster" makes a good point worth discussing... but first...

He wants to paint "ATS staff" as all having the same opinion of this object, and nothing could be further from the truth. I've always contended that this is a terrestrial object that either broke loose or was set loose... but do agree there are some unexpected oddities in they way it moves.


On to the point...


If we are only to discuss sightings of unknown air-born objects that have the approval of a select few, either staff or "special" members, what's the point in such a narrow-minded outlook?

If we are to allow harsh attack-mode posting that ridicules potential hoaxes (before anything is proven), what's the point in that other than entertainment?

Over time, our UFO/Alien-centric discussion method has evolved to where we attempt to embrace every potential sighting with welcoming arms, work hard to confirm what was seen, and reserve any final judgement until factual evidence weighs in favor of one particular viewpoint. To me, that's the very definition of "being classy."

It's unfortunate that some of our members and visitors see "being classy" differently -- topics being limited to what they themselves would approve. On the flip-side, I would think limiting discussion to someone's narrow viewpoint is the very definition of "no-class" and a "friggin' joke"... ...but that's just me.

I think that it is our privilege as members here to have a medium through which to offer up our feeble little opinions on what is discussed in the Aliens & UFOs forum.

Saying that I realize that there is going to be posts of a dubious nature or, in my eyes, patently identifiable. I have to, and I wish others would, restrain from committing to kneejerk reactions to these types of posts. Yeah, I may beyond a reasonable doubt know that a particular photo is a, say, seagull, for instance but that personal opinion or knowledge is by no means an reason to negate any discussion about it. Another poster saying it isnt is also no reason to negate discussion. Hell, it IS the discussion.

Everything must be discussed (not ad nauseum) to the point where there is a majority consensus in the thread that strongly points toward a conclusion. If for nothing else, to have a thread of previous discussion to point to if the topic is ever brought up again.

The anon poster may be right - nothing else may be able to be gleaned from further image analysis. That in itself wont negate the probablility of it being a solar balloon, but if we didnt look and there WAS evidence that would change the direction of our conclusions or confirm the one we already had come to, we WOULD be idiots.

Now that ATS has a couple of imagery experts (woohoo!) on board to review these types of things the conclusions will be a little long to come to which is fine and I expect the process of analysis to take longer than usual.


SO is right - (EDIT: Had Springer here for some reason - you 2 look so much alike) we have to give ALL posts at least a cursory look, irregardless of how ridiculous members may think they are. We have to give room for all opinions to be expressed and challenged and we have to be able to have a free and open discussion (within reason and civility) in order to arrive at a conclusion or at minimum a majority consensus (if possible). Otherwise this forum will turn into another Nazi board where agendas and belittlement are the norm.




[edit on 28-3-2007 by Lost_Mind]

The anonymous poster is way off base.

It's amateurs like this, who think they know it all (as illustrated here) that would LIMIT our attempts at understanding what is happening in our skies that REALLY get "my goat".

I spoke with Jeff Ritzmann a couple days ago and he has shot out requests for DATA (it's all about the data) to several agencies and I assure you he will be able to determine if there is a string/wire or whatever else of any significant size attached to this thing through his software and expertize.

Lost_Mind has GOT IT! Read his/her words and take them to heart and you will begin to understand how we LEARN.

The broad brush statements about "staff glorifying" sounds like someone who had something they thought was uber important and it didn't get the attention they thought it deserves when they presented here.

The fact it's an anonymous post lends to the possibility they got banned in the process as well. This type of closed mindedness is exactly what keeps the charlatans in business an the general public snickering.

The "staff" hasn't "glorified" a darn thing, we have requested and received the raw data (it's ALL about the data) and we have world class, top notch video experts analyzing it. It simply doesn't get any better than that.

As SkepticOverlord claims in his post, he and I went round and round over this, he was convinced it was a balloon arch until he saw the High Rez data (it's ALL about the data) which presented him with some very bizarre motion that is highly UNcharacteristic of a balloon arch.

Could it be a solar bag? Of course it could be! Does it display enough "weirdness" to thoroughly analyze it? It certainly does to us and since we have the means and the resources to do so, that's exactly what we will do.

Springer...

[edit on 3-28-2007 by Springer]

Original Anonymous Post By: anon_106405
I believe in UFO's. I believe people see flying saucers. I believe in Aliens. I do not believe in Space worms. And to think ATS promotes such trash is beyond comprehension. Shame on ATS for backing such ridiculous assumptions just for hits and members. ATS use to be a classy place. It's turned into a friggin' joke!

Time and again I find myself having to remind members and now anonymous posters about a little tiny thing that keeps the world round as far as Im concerned, Respect. ATS is still a classy place, in fact this forum is the most respectful and respect encouraging forum I have ever come across or been a part of anon_106405.

Indeed what is not classy, and a joke, is you coming in here and hiding behind an anonymous post to trash the staff, members, and anyone who might have the horid luck of stumbling across your post as the first post they ever see upon finding this forum (god forbid). Might I remind you that registering is free? I'll assume you knew this because it would seem that you character is that of one who likes to give low blow from a position of anonimity.

At ATS respect is given and in turn recieved by those who would treat each other with a very reasonable amount of respect. If you were to want ANYONE to take your post seriously I might suggest formulating a statement with facts (sited) opinion (noted) and respect (through out). You most likely would have been surprised by the way people recieved it, but instead of me (a member) taking note of the point of your post and responding in kind I find myself giving a 1st grade lecture on how to treat other humans.

Again please take into consideration what damage your words can cause and those who you do not know that they may affect. New members to ATS need not see a post like yours and formulate a bias opinion against ATS do to your lack of common sense and inability to see anything past your closed mind.

So register, come on back, appologise, and take part in the wonderful insight that takes place here at ATS. Also do yourself, and the rest of us a favor by not coming into someone elses home and pissing on the carpet. If not then please take your attitude and lack of respect somewhere else were that kind of crap is tolorated.

Good day.

~Anathema

[edit on 3/29/2007 by anathema777]

Perhaps he /she should be invited to explain this in a manner suitable according to them before I post it - don't want the staff to get another angry letter.

I don't believe in aliens, what I do believe in is that people won't always see your point of view on issues and that they won't always point out the tidbits that you may want pointed out.

That is why there is a register button.




[edit on 29-3-2007 by crisko]

I think it can simply be summed up in an old cliche - innocent until PROVEN guilty.

Sure we get a few hoaxers and kooks here, it is a given considering the subject matter discussed, but that doesn't mean that every story even remotely strange is the same.

There have been some amazing threads here on ATS that have been grilled to the bone and have withstood it. The O'Hare Thread for example. It went through such a process and in the end we still have one unexplained photo, which makes it all worth while.

Be skeptical, yes, but be fair. Just because something sounds unbelievable does not me it is.

Ever since I discovered an interest in UFOs, which is close to 40 years ago now, it has been abundantly obvious that there are a large majority of sightings whcih are easily explainable as hoaxes or conventional phenomena which have been misidentified. Equally clear in every intelligent study from Blue Book to the most inane media presentation is the fact that a small percentage cannot be adequately explained.

That is not to say that they are visiting aliens, exotic interstellar beasts or any other form of oddity, they may be simple normal events which for whatever reason cannot be adequately identified.

So this leaves a simple question, do we accept 5% or so of unexplained aerial sightings as just that, unexplained, or do we at least make a stab at what they may be? Should we be content to shrug our shoulders or should we strive for that last 5% where possible?

No one who has ever studied UFO's will be unaware that this will expose enthusiasts to occasional ridicule and, perhaps, sometmes deservedly so when we fall for a smarter than average hoax or somesuch and that's OK by me although, hopefully ATS provides a safe haven for open minded discussion, intelligent debate and a good humoured approach to the subject.

What we must not forget is that, (and you can sing along here if you like), "They all laughed at Christopher Columbus".

As intelligent people we have a simple choice in life, we can accept ignorance or enquire and if everyone chose the latter we would still be living in caves and beating each other over the head with the jawbone of an ass. Keep on enquiring my friends.

(Oh, by the way, it's a damned balloon, any fool can see that.)




[edit on 29-3-2007 by timeless test]

Originally posted by SkepticOverlord
Why do the staff glorify such ridiculous videos? Let me lay this out for you all. Either:

A] It's a solar balloon that someone released with an accessory to cause a flashing light. In others words, an easily explainable but interesting hoax.

B] It's a space worm that drifted to close to our atmosphere and got captured on video. Similar to a beached whale showing up on a California coastline.

'A' is plausible, makes sense, and is in the realm of reality.
'B' is farfetched, makes no sense, and is in the realm of fringe lunatic thinking.

How about C] unidentified flying object.

Unless you are postive that this object relies on the same set of physics that we do then I would say its naive to assume that it could only be a weather ballon or a worm. How about some sort of hybrid of proteins and machinary that has travelled from another dimension (quantum physics). I thinks that its impossible to determine its origin as this point but the reason for the video analysis is, as Springer said is to try and verify is this object is attached to any type of string or any other propulsion device. Whether you believe or not, you must keep an open mind. Remember people laughed at Copernicus and Aristotle when talking about the earths rotation around the sun.

Skeptic overlord, springer,other mods and all the members of ats. I thank you all for being skeptical yet having an open mind. Being respectful and intelligent in your agruments and theories. This is why I am here, it is a place were people can express their views and beliefes without being crucified as a wack job. I myself have never seen a ufo, however my family members have and I believe everything they told me as they have no reason to LIE to me. As to weather anomolies,earth based craft.... Rubbish they saw a craft as large as a football field slowley hover over there house @60 feet. My uncle called the police, they asked him if he was seeing pink elephants too, he took pictures all came out completely black even though it was 7pm in august. All pics before and after came out perfectly, one of the reason's I question any videos and pictures authenticity. Cause I believe they have the technology to distort any pictures. Anyways I am rambling on, thank you all for being yourselves and keeping a open mind.

My whole reason for being an ATS member is for the interesting (and ok sometimes farfetched) opinions and ideas of others. I love the fact that there are so many posters with completely different observations, that think 'outside the box' and offer new and interesting hypothesis that promote debate. We are all entitled to our opinions 'Mr annonymous', even if you dont agree with them. What you deem as ridiculous some people feel passionately about, and it is unnecessary for you to be so closed minded.

While I agree in part with what the anonymous poster had to say, the fact that he/she did it anonymously diminishes what he/she said.

I have a feeling the experts are going to come back with an opinion leaning to the more strange and unexplainable side as opposed to the more realistic side, but I'll wait and see, I could be wrong.

Peace

I felt that was a worm hole portal that opened up, not an actual space worm type of animal.

The Govt has become quite concerned about these phenomena starting to be more frequent, which will make them more visible. It is all there if you want to spend some time looking.

Numerous violations of trust paved the trail that brought us to the heart of this tale, a sordid affair of betrayal, disinformation, and sheer confusion.

Caught up by the spinning web of a viral, self-organizing and self-reproducing mind-game born within the dark confines of the intelligence community, a handful of well placed intelligence advisers are discretely moving towards public disclosure. Each man presents a personal clouded vision of the shattered pieces of a dark puzzle, begging for life in an assembled nightmare of the future.

It is plainly clear that there is a lot more than the accepted status quoe going on. I am glad there is a place like ATS where it is possible to get the correct answers, that officials are withholding for the betterment of society.

I am not saying it is all true. Based on history there likely are some hoaxes being perpetrated on this board. The admin are being very fair in letting things play their course. It is up to all of the members to try and come to some kind of truth about what is being brought in.

There are many people here to try and deny events that are burried in their subconcious. They would rather keep that burried where it lies.

Also, there are some people who say enough is enough and they come here to define what they are experiencing.

It is a real pot of stew.....We call it "rink soup".

disclosure project?

The link to the quote.

Originally posted by Starwatcher
Skeptic overlord, springer,other mods and all the members of ats. I thank you all for being skeptical yet having an open mind. Being respectful and intelligent in your agruments and theories. This is why I am here, it is a place were people can express their views and beliefes without being crucified as a wack job. I thank you all for being yourselves and keeping a open mind.

That was a well thought out post you made there, and I do agree.

Good job!

~Anathema