757 Plane Did Not Hit Pentagon - Hard Visible Proof!

Originally posted by Caustic Logic

This photo is of pylons on the second floor, a floor above where the left wing/engine would have entered were there a 757 banking as reported.

So please show me pre collapse photos of where the holes are (40 feet apart) where the engines entered the building and where the wings entered the building.



[edit on 29-4-2007 by ULTIMA1]

The picture you've seen already but others maybe haven't:


I drew the plane a tad too big and most of it - the engine-fuselage-engine core - still fits. Note where the right engine would enter - as Lear asked last page. :0 Intact Columns! Nope. All columns removed, these three slants of different size are 2nd floor slab or masonry facing IMO.

That tiny 16-18 footer you all are talking about with no marks on either side is in there somewhere. So you'll just see that, insist no plane could fit, and the rest is faked with bombs to look like a plane's hole, but if you look "carefully," you'll see the hole was faked too small and we know its bomb because the columns go outward (please scan back three posts), etc...

This one will go round and around, and I'll keep getting off and then back on I suppose. Reson has no effect here, so I'll only post opinions when I'm bored.

Which I'm not now.

So here we have a photo of wing damage on the wall, notice the wing did not go into the building. So where is the wing debris ? Also might want to check out the angle, with the wing at this angle the other engine would be in the ground.

i114.photobucket.com...



[edit on 29-4-2007 by ULTIMA1]

Well we can't say for sure, but I'd guess from that most of the left wing went inside (notice the hole runs up almost to the wingtip there) and since right wing encountered the stronger slab, nothing but the engine and root would enter, except maybe bits exploding in through the windows there.

I suggest the right wing and tailfin became the innumerable silver (plane? building?) scraps seen on the lawn, as DBS has pointed out with may small arrows showing them clearly. I'm sure you have random problems with that propsition too, but I'm proposing it again anyway.

And true enough, the official reports linking this with plane ID numbers is not forthcoming, and we can't say if it was AA77 or some other B-757 or similar model plane. But I still say it fits, and you are entitled to your own opinion. Keep trying to prove me wrong if you like tho. I'm willing to admit if I see new evidence.

Originally posted by Caustic Logic
I suggest the right wing and tailfin became the innumerable silver (plane? building?) scraps seen on the lawn, as DBS has pointed out with may small arrows showing them clearly. I'm sure you have random problems with that propsition too, but I'm proposing it again anyway.

And true enough, the official reports linking this with plane ID numbers is not forthcoming, and we can't say if it was AA77 or some other B-757 or similar model plane. But I still say it fits, and you are entitled to your own opinion. Keep trying to prove me wrong if you like tho. I'm willing to admit if I see new evidence.

1. So where is the rest of the wing debris?
2. Where are the Tungsten counterweights from the tail?
3. Where are the 40,000 photos the FBI took?
4. Where are the photos confiscated from the military media?
5. Where are the parts and pieces that were collected taken?
6. Was their a reconstruction done ?

So many more questions then the officical story does not answer.

Originally posted by Caustic Logic
This photo is of pylons on the second floor, a floor above where the left wing/engine would have entered were there a 757 banking as reported.

Sry but no the answer was not sufficient sry.

And did you look at the second picture? That one shows the 1st floor, not the 2nd floor. (or ground and 1st floor for the Brits)...

And again no engine entered the building, both the damage to the wall and lack of engines found, are not consistent with your claim.

Originally posted by Realtruth
It wasn't a plane. Only reason is that a plane filled with that much fuel would have burned for days.

That's funny because that's not true.

Originally posted by Masisoar
That's funny because that's not true.

What is true is that if the fire was hot enough to destroy the plane it would have aslo destroyed the bodies and DNA evidence.

Originally posted by ANOK

Originally posted by Caustic Logic
This photo is of pylons on the second floor, a floor above where the left wing/engine would have entered were there a 757 banking as reported.

Sry but no the answer was not sufficient sry.

And did you look at the second picture? That one shows the 1st floor, not the 2nd floor. (or ground and 1st floor for the Brits)...

Y'know I didn't look at the second one. But it's just what I've been showing, again misread with "beams hammered to the left." These are the ones going out? I still don't see it. First photo, tyes going out, but that's in the wrong area to be relevant. I still have not seen the "plane's" damage illustrated as outward-oriented like an on site bomb. Sry.

And again no engine entered the building, both the damage to the wall and lack of engines found, are not consistent with your claim.

Sry, it's your opinion that no engine entered, since it's mine that two of them did. Prove to me no engines were found. We've seen photos of two rotary hub type devices, one with partial shaft attached, but not necc. from RB211 engines. Does this mean they weren't found, or simply that we haven't been shown undenaible photographs of what they found? Leaping to conclusins does not help your case.

And still no one can site the sixteen foot hole for me. C'mon guys, Lear, Realtruth, Kix, if it can't fit, tell me where it can't fit? Were you all just making that up based on something you read? Call my 100-foot area a hole or not a hole if you like, gimme a letter got what IS the hole.

Photos of what is left of an engine found outside the Pentagon.

i22.photobucket.com...

i22.photobucket.com...

Again with the orange tarp or whatever that is. No one has been able to explain how that's supposed to be an engine. Usually associated with A3 Skywarrior theories it seems... So what do yoou thik Ultima? Can you see it, or are you just posting random pics? Are you making some kinda case here or what?

Originally posted by Caustic Logic
Again with the orange tarp or whatever that is. No one has been able to explain how that's supposed to be an engine. Usually associated with A3 Skywarrior theories it seems... So what do yoou thik Ultima? Can you see it, or are you just posting random pics? Are you making some kinda case here or what?

Well if you look at the second photo that has the block drawn around what looks like a engine section. It would be nice of we had more of the photos the FBI took and thier reports on what type of engine and if they got any numbers off of it.

If the engine was found outside the building that would mean thier should be more debris from the wings and engines outside.

[edit on 30-4-2007 by ULTIMA1]

Originally posted by Caustic Logic
And still no one can site the sixteen foot hole for me. C'mon guys, Lear, Realtruth, Kix, if it can't fit, tell me where it can't fit? Were you all just making that up based on something you read? Call my 100-foot area a hole or not a hole if you like, gimme a letter got what IS the hole.

For those of us who have watched built, maintained and flown large airplanes its impossible to accept that one flew into the Pentagon. Thats because we know the size and strength of various parts that the general public doesn't know anything about. No one, or at least anybody arguing that a Boeing 757 crashed into the Pentagon has obviously ever been up alongside of the vertical tail intersection with the horizontal stabilizer and seen the massive structure that is part of this unit. To those that had it would been evident that this section never penetrated the Pentagon because of its sheer size and mass. So where is it? No, it is not in a thousand little itty bitty pieces of aluminum all over the Pentagon lawn. Those little itty bitty pieces of aluminum are for use by disinformation artists to use on the extremely gullible.

I don't believe DBS or any others trying to convince the gullible that a Boeing 757 ever flew into thePentagon could ever get a:

Boeing 757 pilot
Current and qualified
Identified by real name and FAA Certificate number

to say:

"I (state your name) believe that a Boeing 757, for which I am current and qualified to operate as Captain hereby state that I believe that a similar Boeing 757 crashed into the Pentagon on September 11, 2001."

The reason this will never happen is that knowledgeable people know that it could not have happened.

JOHNLEAR, what do you think of the military guy who was close to the building and stated he saw the plane lower the landing gear as it was hitting the light poles. What pilot would lower the landing gear at that speed?

[edit on 30-4-2007 by ULTIMA1]

Originally posted by johnlear
...the vertical tail intersection with the horizontal stabilizer and seen the massive structure that is part of this unit. To those that had it would been evident that this section never penetrated the Pentagon because of its sheer size and mass. So where is it? No, it is not in a thousand little itty bitty pieces of aluminum all over the Pentagon lawn. Those little itty bitty pieces of aluminum are for use by disinformation artists to use on the extremely gullible.

Could it have entered the second floor where column 14A was removed? I think the tinsel is more likely the wings and weaker tailfin elements. These are two separate things.

I yield to your undeniably impresive aviation knowledge, endless questions, sidestepped answers, random theories, and magical "black box" insider pilot knowledge that cannot be expained to the rest of us but must be taken as substantiation of whatever... Not!

I don't believe DBS or any others trying to convince the gullible that a Boeing 757 ever flew into thePentagon could ever get a:

Boeing 757 pilot
Current and qualified
Identified by real name and FAA Certificate number

to say:

"I (state your name) believe that a Boeing 757, for which I am current and qualified to operate as Captain hereby state that I believe that a similar Boeing 757 crashed into the Pentagon on September 11, 2001."

The reason this will never happen is that knowledgeable people know that it could not have happened.

Thank you for the excelent reasons to avoid getting that training. I'd rather keep my common sense than pay for such blinding expertise.

Originally posted by Caustic Logic
And still no one can site the sixteen foot hole for me. C'mon guys, Lear, Realtruth, Kix, if it can't fit, tell me where it can't fit? Were you all just making that up based on something you read? Call my 100-foot area a hole or not a hole if you like, gimme a letter got what IS the hole.

And still...

Originally posted by ULTIMA1
Well if you look at the second photo that has the block drawn around what looks like a engine section. It would be nice of we had more of the photos the FBI took and thier reports on what type of engine and if they got any numbers off of it.

Oh, it's in the selected area? The thing that looks like an engine... shoulda been looking for that in the first place.
judging by Merc's title, he thinks it's a JT8D engine. Well i'm no expert, but Here is what I see - could be a PART of an engine:


Also other possible engine parts, discs and a shaft not in the box, plus maybe a wing rudder! That looks like an A3 to me! plus a beat up car and an orange tent. Were hippies camping out there? Did they start a fire with their bong hits?


I guess I'm readin this wrong and will need to be certified to ever see the truth staring me in the face. Sorry.

[edit on 30-4-2007 by Caustic Logic]

Originally posted by ULTIMA1
JOHNLEAR, what do you think of the military guy who was close to the building and stated he saw the plane lower the landing gear as it was hitting the light poles. What pilot would lower the landing gear at that speed?

I never actually saw or heard that quote but depending on what speed one thinks the airplane was traveling anywhere from a reasonable 400 mph to an insanely stupid 500 kts, if someone lowered the gear, there would be a giganticly obvious yaw either left or right depending on which door came down first. The doors would not come down exactly the same because of various dynamics. I have never flown the 757 but the gear extension has to take at least 10 seconds because the door has to open first and then the gear itself extends, then the inner door goes back up.

Just imagine a hijacker who is flying this airplane for the first time, has just completed an amazingly accurate 270 degree turn int which he descends at a high rate and levels off at 50 feet above the ground then has the amazing presence and ability to be able to reach over and put the gear lever down with his right hand while flying 50 feet off the ground with his left hand? Truly amazing!

Now apparently there was at least one witness who said that the airplane did yaw. In that case we have a much more complex problem of how the fuselage penetrated the Pentagon in a yaw. This would mean that the hole would have to be consdierably bigger than it was.

I know it irritates everybody but the evidence points closer and closer to the Pentagon aircraft being a holograph and the actual airplane being some kind of RPV, maybe a Predator.



To answer your question the 'military' man was probably a government disinformation artist dressed up in a uniform and dispensing inaccurate information about light poles and airplane configuration.

Originally posted by johnlear
I never actually saw or heard that quote but depending on what speed one thinks the airplane was traveling anywhere from a reasonable 400 mph to an insanely stupid 500 kts, if someone lowered the gear, there would be a giganticly obvious yaw either left or right depending on which door came down first. The doors would not come down exactly the same because of various dynamics. I have never flown the 757 but the gear extension has to take at least 10 seconds because the door has to open first and then the gear itself extends, then the inner door goes back up.

Yes, i know how landing gear works, i was a crew chief. Here is the report.

Subject: Hispanic Hero Recalls Experiences
Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2003 12:18:03 -0400
From: Press Service [email protected]
Reply-To: [email protected]
To: [email protected]

WASHINGTON, Sept. 30, 2003 - Many courageous military and
civilian men and women have been honored for their
actions after the Sept. 11, 2001, terrorist attacks on
New York's World Trade Center and the Pentagon.

But only one member of the Air Force received the
Airman's Medal, the nation's highest award for heroism
not involving combat with an enemy. He also received the
Purple Heart for his injuries.

Senior Master Sgt. Noel Sepulveda, 53, a Hispanic-
American member of the Air Force Reserve, was a medical
inspector at the Air Force Inspection Agency, Kirtland
Air Force Base, N.M. But on Sept. 11, 2001, he was
working at the Pentagon as a reserve program manager in
the Air Force Strategies and Policies Office.

As he reached his motorcycle, Sepulveda noticed the
aircraft wasn't following the normal flight path down the
Potomac River for Ronald Reagan Washington National
Airport. Instead, it was coming over a distant hotel,
headed in the direction of the Pentagon.

"It seemed like the pilot was scrambling to keep control,
and I watched as he dropped lower and lower," Sepulveda
said. "Then he dropped his landing gear and started
coming down even faster and lower.

As it came down, the plane was hitting light poles, the
sergeant said. "Then the right wheel hit a light pole and
the plane popped into a 45-degree angle. The pilot tried
to recover -- go back vertical – but he hit some more
light poles.

"He dipped the plane's nose slightly, and then smashed
into the building," said Sepulveda, who was presented the
Airman's Medal and Purple Heart by Air Force Chief of
Staff Gen. John P. Jumper at the Pentagon April 15, 2002.

Sepulveda said the wings disintegrated, and then
disappeared. "For a brief second, you could see the
fuselage sticking out of the side of the Pentagon,"
Sepulveda recalls. "Then, all of a sudden, this ball of
fire comes out from inside. It looked like it was just
coming from inside the building, engulfing the fuselage.
And then the fuselage was all gone."

Sepulveda said the sweltering heat felt like it was
engulfing his body. "Then, suddenly, it felt like
somebody grabbed me, put their hands on his chest, picked
me up and threw me back against the light pole I was
standing by," he said.

"The back of my head, my back, and all that hit the
pole," he said. "Small pieces of shrapnel from the
airplane hit my motorcycle."

When he managed to get up a few minutes later, he ran to
the impact site to try to help people trapped inside the
building.

[edit on 30-4-2007 by ULTIMA1]

Originally posted by ULTIMA1

Yes, i know how landing gear works, i was a crew chief. Here is the report.

Subject: Hispanic Hero Recalls Experiences
Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2003 12:18:03 -0400
From: Press Service [email protected]
Reply-To: [email protected]
To: [email protected]

SMS? Medical Inspector? Kirtland AFB? Pentagon? Give me a break. But, excellent job. Should retire as a full Col.

Originally posted by johnlear
SMS? Medical Inspector? Kirtland AFB? Pentagon? Give me a break. But, excellent job. Should retire as a full Col.

So what did you think of his story ? I like the part about the plane sticking out of the building then a fireball destroys it.