"The Whole Silly Flood Story"

Look as a Christian myself that has bounced back and forth between Atheism and Christianity many times and argued both sides, I am now happy to say the modern bible has been chopped and changed for hundreds of years, what we have here before us is mostly the work of man.
Its possible it may be entirely modified judging by the tangents the dead sea scroll and such go off on.

I believe flood is a heavily modified version of the Black sea breakthrough, its sort of near enough to Ararat that I can imagine how that bit got worked in, Ararat being the highest mountain around there.
Unfortunately for my theory you can't see Ararat from the Black sea as far as I know.
I believe the translation of what they called "the world" and what we now call the world would also have a big effect on how that story reads.

A global flood is out of the question, I have my own hill of issues with a global flood aside from the issues everybody else has.

This is one of my last major issue really, the flood, things like Genesis I have sorted out.

Ya So silly to believe God over you and the rest of your cohorts. Why are atheistic people like you always attacking the Bible. while they spend time on ATS whinning because the Christians are always attacking us.
Whah! What a bunch of babies. Don't you have an experiment or something else to do? Maybe a lab rat to
decapitate or something?
Seems as though all you try to do is convince yourselves of your own BS>

Sir

Look as a Christian myself that has bounced back and forth between Atheism and Christianity many times and argued both sides, I am now happy to say the modern bible has been chopped and changed for hundreds of years, what we have here before us is mostly the work of man.

In a court of law, why do they use a Bible to swear on that they are telling the truth, thee whole truth and nothing but the truth? Because everyone knows the Bible is the only thing worthy of swearing upon because it is the truth, The whole truth and nothing but the truth. I suppose if you had your way they would use a book on astro physics.? Get a grip.







Sir
Sorry pal the dead sea scrolls tell us a different story then the tripe you peddle.

reply to post by randyvs

Hi, a bit defensive there?

God has slowly lead me on a learning trip though life and had me do certain things that at the time seemed nuts to me. in particular was throw away my bible and he has repeatedly blocked me from getting another one.
And its now clear to me that that was because the main stream version is a mutilated version of what it should be.
And really, mans courts of law using it to swear by has to be one of the last things that would convince me to take it as pure truth.

What do you mean the scrolls tell a different story? are you for or against the scrolls? I am lead to believe there are stories that throw the whole modern bible into question in them.
Marys role, Angels "activities" on earth, A very different Jesus etc...

The Deadsea scrolls and other written remains are only evidence of what the people back then believed!! They are not objective evidence...so it doesn't really matter what those scrolls claim

Not saying they're not interesting, because it's obviously evidence of what people believed back then...but claiming the content is 100% factual is silly.

reply to post by SirMarkth


The Scrolls read the same way the Bible does. End of story. Proof that God is capable of us getting the message he wants us to have. I'm not defensive either, just sick of whinning atheists on ATS. Why are the Christians always attacking everyone? How pathetic.


I mean seriously, if even you were really convinced of this crap you wouldn't waste your time.

reply to post by randyvs

Originally posted by randyvs
Ya

So silly to believe God over you and the rest of your cohorts.

I'm sorry, but I'm not asking you to believe me or anyone else, I'm asking you to look at the evidence and realize that all the evidence that should be present in the event that this story is true is entirely absent.

Why are atheistic people like you always attacking the Bible.

Because parts of it are really stupid. Not saying the whole thing is, there are some good points, but there are some really stupid parts.

while they spend time on ATS whinning because the Christians are always attacking us.

Um...Christians do attack atheists. The thing is, my last thread about that sort of thing was a joke mainly.

Whah! What a bunch of babies. Don't you have an experiment or something else to do? Maybe a lab rat to
decapitate or something?

Seems as though all you try to do is convince yourselves of your own BS>

Wow! What a bunch of random insults!

In a court of law, why do they use a Bible to swear on that they are telling the truth, thee whole truth and nothing but the truth?

Cultural tradition. You do realize that no state can compel you to swear on a Bible, right? I can swear on whatever or no book.

Because everyone knows the Bible is the only thing worthy of swearing upon because it is the truth, The whole truth and nothing but the truth.

No, it's because people are swearing on something they trust. It's actually illegal to force a non-Christian to swear on a Bible.

I suppose if you had your way they would use a book on astro physics.?

Get a grip.

More childish behavior. Honestly, I'd rather swear on a science text book than a Bible. I trust the things that are in the text book a lot more. I can open a physics text book, see an equation, and test whether or not that equation is valid.

I can test F = ma
I can test E = mc^2

Sorry pal the dead sea scrolls tell us a different story then the tripe you peddle.

...they tell us what some people in the desert used to believe.

reply to post by madnessinmysoul


There's any number of innocent people in prison, and do you know why? BECAUSE OF EVIDENCE! EVIDENCE is not the last word like you wish it were silly. Evidence can lie. Do you understand that? So I'd rather just believe what God has to say. Havn't you convinced your self at all yet? Isn't that what you should be happy with? Quit trying to take everyone else to hell with you.

You reallky shoudn't bother withyour long drawn out disected replys either. I read the first sentence and reply. Because you mean nothing to me and reading your lies makes my stomach turn.


The evidence shows you to be a big whinner.

reply to post by secret titan


You know i hear a lot of people say "the bible has been changed to agree with the current beliefs" But other then translation what has changed?

Because they have taking the dead sea scrolls and compared them to a modern Hebrew Bible and guess what?
Nothing has changed in over 2,000 years.
So i ask you (maybe you know) what has changed other then translation?

Originally posted by randyvs
reply to post by madnessinmysoul

 

There's any number of innocent people in prison, and do you know why? BECAUSE OF EVIDENCE!

EVIDENCE is not the last word like you wish it were silly.

The evidence shows you to be a big whinner.

Well, in court SUBJECTIVE evidence is allowed...which is a main reason why so many innocent people get convicted.

In science on the other hand, subjective evidence is not valid evidence since it isn't objective.

reply to post by madnessinmysoul

Madness, I'd like to repeat to you what Randyvs has already said:

"The evidence shows you to be a big winner".

reply to post by randyvs


What keeps getting innocent people out of prison? DNA evidence. I'm looking at physical evidence here, the sort of thing that cannot lie.

Where is the genetic evidence?
Where's the geologic evidence?
Where's the evidence that the boat wouldn't sink?
etc.

The continents rest on huge plates. Movement of these plates can cause changes in the level of the earth’s surface. In some places today, there are great underwater abysses more than six miles [more than 10 km] deep at the plate boundaries. It is quite likely that—perhaps triggered by the Flood itself—the plates moved, the sea bottom sank, and the great trenches opened, allowing the water to drain off the land.

To some extent the earth is still flooded. Seventy percent of it is covered by water and only 30 percent is dry land. Moreover, 75 percent of the earth’s fresh water is locked up in glaciers and polar ice caps. If all this ice were to melt, the sea level would rise much higher.

Geology professor John McCampbell once wrote: “The essential differences between Biblical catastrophism [the Flood] and evolutionary uniformitarianism are not over the factual data of geology but over the interpretations of those data. The interpretation preferred will depend largely upon the background and presuppositions of the individual student".

So madness your opinion of the interpretation of geology is just that.
The water is still in the system, it never left.
Another example of the redistribution of water is an iceberg.
Water redistribution within the form of ice is a really simple concept that we all learn about in elementary school.
I am surprised you suddenly don't understand it, when it comes to discussing the potential places the water went within the system.

reply to post by Blue_Jay33


The problem is, we have no evidence whatsoever that would hint at tectonic plates shifting world wide all at the same time...and there most certainly would be evidence. Lastly, the global flood can't be correct because biodiversity is too large if this happened just a few thousand years ago.

A global flood is out of the question and tbh, rather silly given the counter-evidence we have. Hell, we can even explain that the global floods in ancients texts are really local floods...simply by knowing those peoples didn't inhabit the entire planet and had no clue about its size. Those texts are also all from different time periods, so are most certainly not talking about the same flood.

If you want us to believe in a global flood, I suggest you start presenting some OBJECTIVE evidence...not just pure speculation or weird hypotheses that have no part in reality.

reply to post by madnessinmysoul


What sort of moronic argument is that? Utter garbage! If that's the best you can do then i suggest you give up before you make a fool of yourself.

Originally posted by Uncle Gravity
reply to post by madnessinmysoul

 

What sort of moronic argument is that? Utter garbage! If that's the best you can do then i suggest you give up before you make a fool of yourself.

Beats your name calling which isn't even a real argument and only serves to make you look silly

reply to post by Blue_Jay33

Supposedly, during the flood, the earth was entirely submerged in water.
You are saying that plate movement, by changing the shape of the terrain and making valleys, lowered the water level.

Let's try a little experiment:

1. Fill an aquarium 1/3rd full of clay and sand.
2. Flatten this mixture out.
3. Fill the aquarium to the 2/3rds mark with water.
4. Change the terrain of the clay/sand bottom by pressing deep trenches into it.

RESULT:
The water level will be unchanged.


Of course experiments like the above are why creationists, bible literalists and IDers hate science.

reply to post by randyvs

The Scrolls read the same way the Bible does. End of story. Proof that God is capable of us getting the message he wants us to have. I'm not defensive either, just sick of whinning atheists on ATS. Why are the Christians always attacking everyone? How pathetic.

Not the same.......

According to The Oxford Companion to Archaeology:

The biblical manuscripts from Qumran, which include at least fragments from every book of the Old Testament, except perhaps for the Book of Esther, provide a far older cross section of scriptural tradition than that available to scholars before. While some of the Qumran biblical manuscripts are nearly identical to the Masoretic, or traditional, Hebrew text of the Old Testament, some manuscripts of the books of Exodus and Samuel found in Cave Four exhibit dramatic differences in both language and content. In their astonishing range of textual variants, the Qumran biblical discoveries have prompted scholars to reconsider the once-accepted theories of the development of the modern biblical text from only three manuscript families: of the Masoretic text, of the Hebrew original of the Septuagint, and of the Samaritan Pentateuch. It is now becoming increasingly clear that the Old Testament scripture was extremely fluid until its canonization around A.D. 100

And take note, the texts are similar to the Hebrew text, and from the Hebrew text to the modern bible there are a lot of differences, some pretty convenient to a certain Roman emperor.

It's something I learned through my ride through falling away and back again several times, if you go to Christian extremist or semi-extremist sources I reckon a good 60% to 80% of stuff to find there is an unashamed outright falsification.
Dr Dino being my poster child for that....

reply to post by SirMarkth

Nobody interested in my Genesis + Evolution explanation ?

Bring it

reply to post by Kailassa


Well I certainly don't hate science. I don't hate scientists either. What gets under my skin, is seeing someone like OP do all this carrying on about atheists being attacked by Christians, in his thread. Then turn right around like no one was watching and in the next thread. He puts up the exact reason why he should be attacked by everyone on ATS. BECAUSE HE"S A BLATaNT HYPOCRiTE! I guarantee you there wasn't enough time between the cry baby thread and this one, for him to even think about being attacked by some crazed Christians. OP seems to have a fedish for the attention and flags that knocking the Bible brings from all his peers. Any way I'm done with him. He 's not even worth responding to.

reply to post by MrXYZ

Realized typed that is the wrong thread and removed it, but I see you already quoted it so......here goes...

Alright, the bible gives us some description of what God is when it says to him a day is as a thousand years and a thousand years is as a day, which to be true would mean that he is not part of our time.

I have a whole dimension bit to this but I'll add that at the end.

Anyhow, the days spoken of are Gods days, not part of this dimension so each day can stretch over the whole period from the start of earth....or rather the Universe really.. to now and into the future no doubt.
So from our viewpoint everything would have in fact happened in parallel because each of Gods days can overlap his previous days in our dimension, this would allow for the out of order creation of Animals and plants and such.

What gave me this idea was thinking about dimensions and what things from the next would look like to the previous (Inspired by an incident I had).

So a 0 Dimension is a point if it moves through 1 Dimension its entire area is changed in a sort of time like fashion.
1 Dimension is a line, if it is moved through 2 Dimensions its entire area is changed.
And a 2 Dimension Creature can move in and out of 1 Dimensions at will and to a 1 Dimension creature it would look as if something was appearing and disappearing.
2 Dimensions is a surface and if it moves though a 3 Dimensional area its entire contents is moved through.
Also, we would be able to appear and disappear our finger around and inside a two dimensional creature and all it would see is this shape appearing and disappearing.
We would also be able to see all of the 2 Dimensional creature, inside and out.

Righty, so 3 Dimensions is the first dimensional space that can actually exist, no sides touching.
So taking this further, a 4 Dimensional creature can do all of that to us, appear and disappear, see all of us, inside and out, and I also believe they can appear back and forth though time.
I had a whole dimension moving through next is time but that's not making sense to me right now
but science does consider the forth dimension time I believe

So what that should allow is for a forth dimensional creature to for instance draw a picture on a passing bullet.

Anyhow its though this mechanism that All this stuff happens.
My pet theory is that the basic peon bad guys are one dimension above us after I saw something and how it moved, sort of like looking at a waving stick through the edge of a pane of glass.
That's was initially sent me down this line of thinking in the first place.