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Controlled Demolition, Inc. Hired by NIST to Investigate WTC7?

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posted on Jun, 4 2008 @ 08:51 PM

Damocles : one thing that no one seems to realize is that i personally cant think of a single explosive out there that leaves NO traces.

I know of one.
He knows NOW also, since we discussed that in several posts, since the date he posted the above statement.

These things are much easier to put in place.
Just switch a vending machine with one that has such a thing build inside, for example. Five minutes work.
Or place a new, prepared waste basket in an elevator floor, which is conveniently also the place nearest to the core columns.

I have extensively reported in this forum and the Weaponry forum, on these new, then (2001) secret type of explosives.

It's only a year now, that more public knowledge can be accessed about these new shaped charges, which are essentially gaseous in nature, and thus leave no explosive traces to account for.
They first form a gaseous cloud in the shape of a discuss, and this cloud gets subsequently ignited by a piezo-electric discharge, static electric in nature.
The immense pressure of the discus shaped explosion-front cuts through steel like it were butter.

The Mannlicher-Carciano bomb, for sure also used in the Oklahoma City bombing, and in the first WTC basement bombing.
Thermobaric weapons are the largest non-nuclear weapons.

There will be other traces to be possibly found, f.ex. from the initial casings, but these will be difficult to determine, since the people looking for the normal explosive traces are not aware of these new devices.

And in the case of the three WTC demolitions, these tiny traces would have been unidentifiable during the massive building-debris clean-up process.
And were totally unknown to all explosives specialists who would have been around during the September 2001 clean-up.

They should have looked for thin tubular metal casings, exploded open in a tulip like form, with a tiny piezo-electric device glued on the bottom, and a thin metal wire extruding from that device.
The problem is, they look like split-open cola cans, the smallest devices.
The bigger ones look like dust bins.
And they would have been thoroughly crushed in the falling building debris.

posted on Jun, 4 2008 @ 11:45 PM

Originally posted by LaBTop

Damocles : one thing that no one seems to realize is that i personally cant think of a single explosive out there that leaves NO traces.

I know of one.
He knows NOW also, since we discussed that in several posts, since the date he posted the above statement.

well first of all, ive known about thermobaric explosives since 1990 and said as much. i believe ive also said that ive been trained to make field expedient TB devices, though ive openly said that the stuff they use today would be like comparing a 2000lb gravity bomb to a firecracker by comparison. (though i probably discussed that aspect of my training before aug06 so that along with my other 300 odd posts are gone due to admin error)

but i get the impression youre implying that i agree with you in regards to their potential use on 911. just so that the record is crystal clear on that matter, i do not agree.

youve done a LOT of great research into these but i STILL feel youre overestimating their potential by a long way. i have yet to see anything that indicates to me that a small device could in any way "cut through steel like a hot knife through butter" and before you go there, please dont post the video of the dummy building that the russians blew up during their tests, that was a 4 ton device. its hardly a good comparison.

the explosives used in the TB bombs would still have left trace residue and should have shown up on the air sampling that was done and unless youre going to say that the EPA left out those chemicals, Dr. Jones would have been saying it to anyone who would listen.

also, for these devices to do what you imply, we're still talking about a LOT of energy being released and there was simply NO indication of such a release prior to the initiation of the collapse. something with the force to bust all of the core columns would not have left any doubt in anyones mind. they'd have heard it in atlantic city. the overpressure would have blown out any remaining windows on that level BEFORE the initiation of the collapse. or are you contending that something else initiated the collapse and these were used further down the towers to reduce the resistance of the collapse? either way the floors that contained these would have been massivly overpressured instantly and instead of a single squib here and there the whole ring of windows would have gone out at once, quite spectacularly.

mostly i just feel that youre mistaken about their potential. a device the size of a vending machine simply wont have the punch to damage the core. if you can provide me with a video of a test where they set up a couple dozen large box columns and cut them all with a device that was small enough to be concealed and have it do so with a very small auditory signature, then ill believe youre onto something, but at this time i just personally feel that youre mistaken.

so i guess we're back to where we've always been. you have what you read on the internet and can interpret it however you want to so that it fits what you believe or guides you to believe something else. i have my own experience blowing things up with a variety of materials over 12 years. (and dont insult my by saying "oh but this stuff was top secret" TB's arent new, just better and explosive force is still explosive force)

i guess we'll just have to remain agreeing to disagree. but please do me the courtesy of refraining from speculating on what i know, what you think i know, and what you think youve "educated" me on. but mostly please refrain from posting what you think i know. if you want to know what i know or think, ask, dont assume.

yes, there are thermobaric explosives. no they are not new. yes theyve gotten much more powerful in the last 15 years. no i do NOT believe they were in anyway responsible for the destruction of the WTC towers. other than youre speculation, theres nothing to support that they were.

posted on Jun, 5 2008 @ 03:07 AM
I apologize for the wrong impression I seeded in your mind by my wording.

I am not, and never were, seeking a confrontation with your expertise, to the contrary, from the beginning I hoped on a balanced discussion of possibilities within the boundaries of the bulk of the evidence we possess, and are able to access.

I had the impression we once talked about Fuel-Air bombs, which were the first step to the later invention of thermobarics, which are much more devastating and more complicated in design.

When I first brought up the thermobaric devices, you gave me the impression you still looked upon these as in principle, F-A devices, which they are certainly not, they are a long stretch above those, in a destruction to weight comparison gradient.

And I also got the impression then, that you said you never worked with a real automated thermobaric device. The ones with the build-in piezo-electric boxes, with a thin wire on a spool, which wire was attached to the top side of the cylinder, and would roll off when the middle of the cylinder holding the first stage explosive, detonated and caused the cylinder to "flower" open, thereby propelling the top half of the cylinder upwards, and rolling that wire off, while the gaseous cloud expelled by that first detonation, formed in the room at the height of the bottom part of the "flower".

The videos I once posted, with the blown up mannequins in them, show only the earliest simplistic designs of thermobaric devices, the ones with external fixed poles with delayed trigger mechanisms, placed at the outskirts of the expected gaseous cloud.
The automated ones wait until the pressure in the expanding cloud reaches a trigger pressure, and then the piezo-electric device in the foot of the bomb will unleash its high voltage load and ignite the still expanding, gaseous cloud.

For your info, I am still contemplating which most feasible row of events fits the available evidence and eyewitness reports, videos and audios of that day.

As you possibly remember, I brought up the possibility of flooded elevator shaft bottoms, where cutter charges were possibly placed around the massive core columns. Under water, the explosions leave no really loud audio signature, except a very low frequency "footprint".
Such VLF audio-footprints can be heard in the famous video from the 911 Eyewitness team. The one filmed from the Pier across the Hudson river.

BUT, there is a problem with that theory, which I hadn't been able to solve completely, up till now, in feasible theory :
Why is there such a long delay of many seconds, before the eventual blow-out of a few standing meters of basement core columns effectuated the initiation of collapse at the much higher plane-impacted floors?

I now believe, that those explosions heard on the video, were just the 45° or 90° angles cut in the basement columns. They still kept standing in place.
The final, displacement charges were set-off much later, at the end of the global collapse row of events, when there was so much rumbling noise and dust, that security of operation didn't count anymore.

This was probably the moment when we saw that famous "spire" suddenly sink out of sight. That was the moment when the displacement charges were detonated, to get rid of the remaining core columns, and make room in the basements to facilitate the sinking of most heavy debris into those basements.

As Griff once postulated first, if a pre-planted "device" blew out the core columns at a level just under the plane-impacted floors first, that event would initiate a collapse at the impacted floors first, since that were the floors with the most damage already in place.

So that would be the first event, at about 300 meters high, thus spreading eventual noise out far above all spectators.
It would have cost about a second for that noise to reach street level.
After that, the increase of devastation noise to immense proportions, would mask all other explosion noises.

And thermobarics have a low frequency noise pattern, not directly compared to standard high velocity explosions to the ears of the eyewitnesses on street levels. And will be forgotten directly, after the increase of noise from the rest of the collapse sequence.

So, that first event would initiate the following STAGED global collapse, giving the impression of a natural gravitational collapse, but in fact a cascading downward row of exploding thermobarics on the lower floors.
Btw, cascading thermobarics intensify each others explosive force.
And, they were explicitly designed to demolish an opponents fortifications and buildings from the inside out.

I have posted a few telltale videos of collapse initiation, where you can see clearly that a whole ring of windows on a floor under the plane impacted floors burst outwards first, before the top of the building started to topple.
Then many more floors under that burst out in the same pattern, until the dust stopped any further observation of the cascading explosive collapse.

That observation of a cascading downward destruction front gave food for the first Pancaking theory, which we know by now, was totally wrong.

See the NIST reports for their next theory of a natural gravitational collapse from a part of a building straight through the remaining stronger and much bigger part still standing.
No total toppling allowed, since that wasn't observed, it toppled, but then miraculously halted the toppling, and sank into the building.
This can ONLY be achieved by a subsequent removal of the still standing part of the building, by explosives.

I am still contemplating on the janitor, mr Rodriguez, witness accounts of an enormous explosion just after or even before the plane impacts.
I start to think that he heard two events :
1. the plane impact noise traveling through steel,
2. the same noise traveling through air.
Both events will be separated by at least one second.

I don't see yet, a logical reason for demolition planners to blow up any columns that low in that early, impact stage.
The steel columns will have been vibrating very loud during a few seconds, giving the impression of a loud explosion under his feet, but were probably just that, impact vibrations.

The only reason to blow up anything would have been the main water supply pipe, to flood the basement elevator shafts, and the fire department's standpipe systems which didn't work in all THREE buildings!
The main water pipe going through the towers bathtub construction was found broken afterwards!

posted on Jun, 5 2008 @ 05:19 PM
reply to post by LaBTop

no problem, apology accepted and id like to offer my own as well, you know sometimes i respond to things a little harsher than is warranted or intended. bad days and all.

youre right about my opinions of TB's overall and i havnt worked with any of the newest stuff out there. if i never posted much about what i was trained to make in the early 90's it is because to do so i would almost have to explain how they are made and thats something i wont do. they are just too easy to make and for me to post anything about them would be like giving a demo101 class on construction of these devices and i cant do that. well rather, i wont do that. im sure you understand.

suffice to say that the ones i could make wouldnt do any significant damage to a structure like the wtc towers.

as for the rest of your post, i still disagree with a lot of it but there are a few points you raise ill have to think about. i do respect the amount of effort you put into your research even if i do disagree with your conclusions.

posted on Jun, 6 2008 @ 08:05 AM
I would like to contemplate further on all possible scenarios, taking in account then, what I and many with me, think really happened at the 3 WTC towers.

First, I don't think Controlled Demolition from the Loizeaux family will have any experience at all with the demolition power of military style thermobaric devices. They for sure never used them before 9/11/2001, at least they can never admit that publicly, because if they did, they then used secret technology and had for sure a non-disclosure agreement signed, with very harsh repercussions when that were ever to be breached.
So we will never ever hear from ANY demolition company in the States, if they had experience with thermobaric devices before 9/11/2001.

And of course we will never ever hear from any military unit involved in a thermobaric demolition of American property on American soil.

Admitting to such demolitions as :

- the Waco building (a "firestorm" as they said, yep, exactly what happens when thermobarics explode in a huge wooden building, and there are NO chemical traces of such devices, gas BURNS away),

- the Alfred P. Murrah building in Oklahoma City (see General Partin's explanations to Congress and much more if you Search here with the right words from this sentence, and my screen-name. A huge unexploded device, a big green drum, was hauled away and never heard of anymore, it was a MILITARY device as stated by a later brutally murdered witness, a doctor. A thermobaric in those days was build inside a huge army-green drum.),

- the first WTC basement bombing (the FBI handled the Arabic perpetrators, and one former Egyptian-Army major, who spilled the beans afterwards, telling us how the FBI promised him, the undercover agent, to switch the explosives delivered to the Arabs. But they did NOT. They delivered them the real deal. How on earth is it possible that these existing court cases are not all over the Media?)

And abroad, many others, such as :

- the Red Sea Resort hotel bombing, where nearly all CEO's from that huge russian Yacos OIL company were killed, btw they were all from Jewish descent and were willing to spill the beans on what really went on at Yacos Oil, after they managed to flee from Russia. Someone didn't want them to talk.)

- the Jakarta, Indonesia, hotel bombing, where we saw the nearly exact same damage as in the above hotel, and many severely burned victims, same as above. One of the terrible effects of a thermobaric explosion is full skin burns all over the body, if that body was inside the expanding thermobaric cloud before it explodes. As above, the explosion sounded like a huge clap of thunder, with a strong crackling in the air just before, like a static loading of the air.

- the Bali discotheque bombing, where the power of the explosion was so huge, that the late mr. Vialls from Australia, thought it must have been a mini-atomic bomb, made in Dimona, Israel. But he interpreted the same burn effects on surviving victims as caused by radiation. There were many victims who's remains were never found, so intense was the heat at detonation. But this was for sure also a thermobaric device, or more than one device probably. One C-4 style in a van which made the crater, and several thermobarics inside the discotheque.

These things are very well suited to be hidden in every day utilities, like fire-extinguishers, dust bins, vending machines, standpipes for the fire department, any form of tubular device, but they will also work in boxes and any other form.
They are extremely easy to camouflage.
That's why secret services are so fond of them, and don't like us to talk about it.

We will, and we must, so the insanity stops.

posted on Jun, 6 2008 @ 08:33 AM
Another event at the WTC sparked my curiosity, the well-known sinking of the remaining "spire", after the bulk of the building already went down.
The spire managed to stay upright for a few seconds, then was "sucked" into the ground, as can be seen on several videos.

From the moment on, that I saw this happen, I was intrigued with the repercussions of what we saw happen.
If this was a gravitational effect, why did the spire seemingly break at a very low point, in the basements, and why didn't it topple over, as one should expect.
And by gliding downwards, perfectly vertical, it showed us that there had to be several breaking points in that spire, otherwise it would have toppled over.
That spire could not sank into an open shaft, because there was not such a thing below the bottom of the main core columns.
So again, what facilitated that obvious sinking?

Then we have the strange aftermath photo, of the still standing lower "curtain" of upright exterior panels at the bottom portion of the North Tower, WTC 1.
And the strange emptiness inside that curtain.
We should expect a huge mountain of rubble, filling up that "curtain", and surrounding it. But it was nearly empty, as if all the rubble disappeared in the basement portion of the lost building.
And we should expect from a natural gravitational collapse, that the floors would be on top of each other, with the top floors laying on top.
And the three extra strong reinforced mechanical floors laying in between.

But there was very little to recognize from any from these mechanical floors and the huge, heavy equipment which was inside them.
It must have been "sucked" into all the basements, through the heaviest floors of them all, the lobby floor and the five super strong basement floors.

But the biggest surprise of all, where were the remains of those 42 super strong core columns?
They were not peeking out far above the rubble, as we should expect.
Very little of them was to be seen in those first aerial photos, taken in the first hours after the 2 first collapses.

That gives a strong indication that they were conveniently broken or cut during collapse.

The strange thing however is the fact that when a building collapses naturally, the weight resting on the remaining still standing part of it, will decrease exponentially the more rubble will have been formed during collapse.

So what IMMENSE force caused these SUPER HUGE main core columns to "melt down" into the pile of rubble, in such a perfect VERTICAL way?

Because during the main collapse, they managed to survive, as can be seen in the spire videos.

To me this event is one of the more convincing arguments that a form of demolition was used.

And don't get me wrong, I am still open to the question: Who did it.

There are more nations on earth than the US, who would kill for profit.

posted on Jun, 6 2008 @ 11:29 AM
Let's try to imagine, if a demolition crew made up of solely Americans, could have been told what their purpose was, without taking enormous risks by the contractors, that one or more of them wouldn't have the stomach to obey orders to kill thousands of their own citizens.

That's why the chance is high that the whole demolition part of 9/11 has been outsourced to a foreign country, or performed solely by such a country, specifically its black operations agencies.

The specifications for these foreign operatives must have followed certain rules, to be sure that the whole operation was kept secret, for a very long time :

1. Must speak perfect American English, if possible must have lived in the USA, for a prolonged window of time.
2. Must look like Americans, so Caucasian, African American, Hispanic American, Chinese American, Japanese American, Korean American, American Indian, Middle Eastern American looking would be acceptable if the slang spoken matched the US expectancy for such colored people and they would blend in every day American life easily.
3. Must have a damn good reason to be able to kill thousands of humans.
For example the notion that their own nation's people were in dire need of defending.
4. Or must have such a immense hatred for all Americans, based on traumatic events experienced by them self, that they have no moral objections for mass killings.
5. Must have a former or present Army or Black Ops or Terrorist demolition career, since that would give the necessary expertise and the added dedication, expected from the SMALL amount of suited brainwashed automatons in these forces, who would be able to do the mass killings, for patriotism, revenge or pennies, or a combination of these.
Military men and women are by design already partly used to the thought, otherwise they should not volunteer for an Army which in the first place should be needed for defense of a nation, and not for offensive purposes.

The amount of real demolition people, would need to be as small as can possibly be, to keep the secret a secret.

If there were cables involved for the job, then the basic cabling crew would be much bigger, but would never understand that they were used under the cloak of re-cabling of parts of the buildings, as was reported in the weeks before 9/11.

After all the new cables were laid and placed according to the specifications, the cabling crew would exit, and the real small demolition crew would come in.
Their only job was to connect the explosives, weather it be standard HE or secret new devices like thermobarics.

One device which would fulfill all specifications would be a new "server box", hung from the ceilings. There will be many more possible camouflaged items to come up with.
Completed perhaps with new "fire extinguishers", hung up against pillars and walls. Pillars in the WTC are columns, and walls can be stuck against columns or other construction parts like cross-beams.

To understand the use of thermobarics in the WTC, you have to look at the tube-in-a-tube design.
If you can blow out the outer walls in a cascading sequence, floor by floor, through exploding thermobarics, then the only thing left to be done is to cut the core columns every ten floors for example.

The problem I still have with this scenario, why and how did they cut all the columns in such convenient lengths? A length which could be hauled away by a deep-loader.
Now, I would like to remind you of one simple fact : these same column parts were also brought to the construction site on the same type of loaders.
And were WELDED and riveted together during construction with huge plates.

How on earth can ALL these welds and rivets ALL break during a natural gravitational collapse at ALL the connection points?
Dumping all these column parts in the debris pile at such convenient lengths.
It should have been a jungle of wrangled and broken, bended parts instead of in majority, such conveniently "cut" beams and columns.

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